Andersen Forbes Elohim and singular adjectives

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Posts 22
Carl Judson Davis | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Aug 1 2010 6:19 PM

Does any know how to find all the singular adjectives modifying Elohim?

Thanks.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 1 2010 9:18 PM

Quick answers (ask away & someone will answer):-

1. Bible Search  <af-morph+he ~ N?JS????> WITHIN 1 word God  in A-F Morphology  (in LHI best or RI)

To refine substitute Hebrew for God. Note that not all adjectives are declared as a sub-class of Noun as above eg. Ex 20:5 "jealous"

2. Syntax Search

Dave
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 2 2010 2:23 AM

Dave Hooton:
Quick answers

I've got time to expand.

Dave Hooton:
1. Bible Search  <af-morph+he ~ N?JS????> WITHIN 1 word God  in A-F Morphology  (in LHI best or RI)

As I have Lexham Hebrew-English interlinear (LHI) and I don't want to be too constrained I'll start with a simple Morph search for the gloss God near a singular Noun with sub-class Adjective (type @ in Morph Search for Andersen-Forbes Hebrew Morphology and fill in the parts you want then switch to Bible Search to get the expanded form above).

If you don't have LHI you will need to use AFAT and the Hebrew word for Elohim - I don't think a Reverse Interlinear (RI) will be accurate enough because the Hebrew word order & separation will be different.

Dave Hooton:
2. Syntax Search

Based on results from the text query I can construct a Syntax Search (see http://wiki.logos.com/A_Strategy_for_Syntax_Search). It was then that I found adjectives not described by the morphology of the text search! From this point you can refine the query as needed.

Dave
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Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 2 2010 3:05 AM

Carl,

In addition to trying a search similar to the one Dave showed above the A-F database comes with some templates that you might be able to leverage to find answers in this case.

Some of the workings of the A-F database still confuse me at time but between the strategy described above by Dave and using the template for some guidance I think you'll be able to figure it out.

Posts 22
Carl Judson Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 2 2010 5:40 AM

Thank you Dave.

I forgot that the "licensing" is the agreement.  This is helpful

Posts 22
Carl Judson Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 2 2010 5:40 AM

Thank you Kevin.  I missed that.

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 2 2010 11:35 AM

An an FYI since I have been muddling through this, this question will be trivial to do once the Lexham OT resource is out...

http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/6786

 

Posts 130
Ryan Schatz | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 18 2012 8:30 AM

Does anyone know why Elohim, although plural in construction (with the -im) ending, is shown as singular in the A-F morphology?  Is this an error?  Elohim in Gen 1:26 is shown as singular.

 

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 19 2012 3:46 PM

Ryan Schatz:

Does anyone know why Elohim, although plural in construction (with the -im) ending, is shown as singular in the A-F morphology?  Is this an error?  Elohim in Gen 1:26 is shown as singular.

While the form may be plural its usage makes it singular. The analysis recognizes this and tags it as singular.

Posts 130
Ryan Schatz | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 19 2012 4:43 PM

Kevin Becker:

While the form may be plural its usage makes it singular. The analysis recognizes this and tags it as singular.

This may be true, but don't you think there should be some sort of side note or something to indicate that the noun is actually plural in the text?  I was hoping to find all plural nouns used together with singular verbs, but if the morphology forces the verb and noun to agree when in the text it isn't that way, then the text isn't being marked the way it is, there is a level of interpretation being done.

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 21 2012 5:42 AM

Morphological analysis is an interpretive act. Granted, it's less interpretive than syntactical analysis but there are areas of disagreement among grammarians over what is the proper way to understand the language.There seems to be much more debate over Hebrew than Greek

But on a linguistic level it's not uncommon for time and usage to force a form to be "incorrectly" used so much that it becomes proper to think of it separate from its "correct" use. A recent English example could be data. Technically it's the plural of datum and you'll frequently find it that way in print but popular usage seems prefers it as a singular word. A descriptive linguist would be correct to consider this word singular and plural right now and very well could be just singular in the future.

All that to say is that I expect a morphology to reflect the linguistic decisions of its author(s). In the case of Logos you do have choices. I picked a random example of elohim and saw that the Anderson-Forbes analysis treats it as singular but both the BHS Westminster and WIVU morphologies list it as plural. Differences like this, especially with Hebrew, mean sometimes questions are better answered with different morphologies.

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