Brand new search engine ready to be tested

We've been working on a brand-new search engine that doesn't require special syntax to answer your queries. It's very experimental at this stage, but we'd love your feedback.

We're not yet ready to include the search engine in the desktop app, but you can access it on web here: https://beta.app.logos.com/search?kind=semantic

We'd love you to run real questions/queries there and use the thumbs-up/thumbs-down icons in the results to let us know how well the engine has answered your query.

Then come back to this thread and let us know your overall impressions.

To be clear, we don't intend to replace our existing search engine with all its advanced syntax. That won't be going away. And it's designed for searching your books, not the Bible. But we hope it will have a place in making search even simpler.

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Comments

DMB

Well, I'm impressed. I did a super-simple 'symbols in jubilees'

- Listing went from best match, to substitution match, to most likely key area, to wild-match (good)

- I assume it's a FL library; I already saw several books that get close, I'd like to buy

- I didn't do the thumb thing; I'm just happy to get close!

I don't use the current search syntax (beyond NEAR, etc), so I can't tell exactly what is being beta'd.

But I just tried a similar simple query on Verbum 'symbols jubilees'; it was lost and poor sort. Frustrated,

This looks good.

EDIT: Searches where you're not quite sure how to get there (not just syntax; concept) are the most difficult. What would I pay for this (how valuable)? I'd go as high as $199 (Verbum 11; just this one new feature). And that's just limited use. Exciting.

Kiyah

My first reaction is obvious. I would like to just search my own library and not include results from the store (this could be a toggle option for those who do want to include the store). And I'd like to be able to sort and display the results in all the ways I can do in the Books tab.

Also, I like how the All tab gives you the top 3 results first and then starts listing the various 'cards'. Can this also list the top 3 results first before that Answers card?

Mark

Mark,

In our searches, I assume it is expected to search the library books we own. Would that be correct?

Mark Barnes (Logos)

In our searches, I assume it is expected to search the library books we own. Would that be correct?

Part of the experiment is for us to discover if there's also value in you seeing results from books you don't own. To be honest, it's also easier for us to code it that way too, so that helped us get the experiment out more quickly. If we release this as a finished version, there would be options to filter results just to your own library.

Kiyah

In our searches, I assume it is expected to search the library books we own. Would that be correct?

Part of the experiment is for us to discover if there's also value in you seeing results from books you don't own. To be honest, it's also easier for us to code it that way too, so that helped us get the experiment out more quickly. If we release this as a finished version, there would be options to filter results just to your own library.

For this experimental version, could it list our owned resources first and then the store resources? It's hard for me to tell you if the search result is good if I don't own the book. The snippet of text is not long enough to give me the result in context.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

The snippet of text is not long enough to give me the result in context.

That itself is useful information.

We will be bringing improvements to how we handle licensed vs unlicensed resources.

Kiyah

Here's some positive feedback:

I typed in the following search: logos christology epistemology sophia

It gave me this book by Elisabeth Schussler Fiorenza as one of the results. I gave this a thumbs up for feedback, because it's on topic AND it does not show up as a result when I type that exact same search in my regular search window in the desktop application. This is because it doesn't have the words epistemology and logos in the same article. So it would seem that we are not limited by article in this new search engine. Cool.

EDIT:

This result also hadn't shown up in any of the other searches I've tried for the topic I'm studying. So this new search engine helped me find a book that I hadn't yet found for the past couple of days of researching.

Christian Alexander

I really like this new search function. I like how the search provides the top 3 hits but wish it only searched my library. The thumb thing is tacky, but this is a nice function. The option to restrict searches to books from your personal logos library is needed. Why can't the snippets be larger?

Mark

Part of the experiment is for us to discover if there's also value in you seeing results from books you don't own. To be honest, it's also easier for us to code it that way too, so that helped us get the experiment out more quickly. If we release this as a finished version, there would be options to filter results just to your own library.

Well that makes sense. I do like very much the idea in the final product of having the ability to search only our libraries, but also the ability to search all FL resources.

I would also find it useful if there was the ability to search along theological lines as well as historical lines. If I wanted resources (for example from the Eastern branch of Christianity) or I wanted to limit the search to resources from Medieval times or from the writings of the Church Fathers...just a thought.

MJ. Smith

I'd have to play with this for some time to retrain myself on how I state my searches, The ranking of the results appears to be nearly spot on.

the law of prayer is the law of believing maxim with quotations works well in a basic search ... here the answer box is what I want but the rest results emphasize the law portion - I get law of fermentation as an example of how off topic it gets
No English translation did well providing hits
lex credendi lex orandi provided excellent results
barren woman story type gave impressive results
type-scenes Biblical also gave impressive results
incarnation sermons Chrysostom gave very mixed results as it gave each word priority rather than treating them as equal i.e. some results ignored Chrysostom, some ignored incarnation ...

All in all quite impressive

Rosie Perera

This is very cool, Mark. I've only had time to play with it a bit, but I am impressed.

The first search I tried was: humor in the bible

The results from this experimental semantic search were much better than a typical Books search in Logos with the same text:

I took some time to click thumbs up on many of those as good results.

Then I tried another search related to a question that Christian Alexander asked recently: economic Trinity vs. immanent Trinity

Again, this new search gave better results.

My only suggestions for improvement are:

1. I expected the links from the headings in the search results to take me to the heading of the section in the book, like what happens in Book search in Logos Desktop. Instead, that link takes me to the context of the excerpt shown. In the Desktop app, I can click on the search hits that are highlighted in that excerpt and go there if I want to. But in many cases, I want to get the whole context, so I want to go to the beginning of the section.

2. When one of the search results is selected, the up and down thumb icons are darker grey even if neither has been clicked, making it look like both have been clicked, which is confusing. See if you can find a lighter shade of grey that can still be seen on that highlight-grey background. Or make them white in that case.

Dave Hooton

predictions of christ's return - first few results were ok and then the focus on his "return" was dropped.

when will Jesus return - was much better with more books from my library!

pretribulation rapture - was very good except i had to buy one of the books!

I'm impressed so far.

Ronald Quick

Part of the experiment is for us to discover if there's also value in you seeing results from books you don't own

I really like being able to see search results from resources that I do not own. Will there be a way filter or organize the results from those resources I do not own into group or at the end of my results?

Brian Davidson

I am clicking the little thumb buttons, but I just wanted to say here that I was very much helped in my research project after spending only a few minutes playing with a couple searches.

Very impressive! My searches found some results in my library that were actually very helpful and would have been difficult for me to ferret out using the current search capabilities in the desktop app. I agree with others that it would be helpful to either hide the results for resources not in our library or move them to the end.

Even though this is very experimental, I suggest rolling it out soon and updating it via periodic updates. Even as an early beta feature, I think this type of search would be very popular among many types of Logos users (even those who have been using it for many years). And, since it is not replacing any of the current search capabilities, it seems that adding this search feature (even in early form) has lots of upside.

MJ. Smith

Do the thumbs up/thumbs down train the search or are they merely statistical?
Assuming there is a ranking to the results, I would prefer the unlicensed resource continue to show where they fall but have some visual clue they are locked.

Ryland Brown

I am impressed. This doesn't feel like a sales pitch for new material, but an opportunity to see what material is available that might be helpful to add to the library.

As someone else suggested, longer info from an unlicensed resource would be beneficial for me to be able to judge if it is helpful or not.

Rosie Perera

Do the thumbs up/thumbs down train the search or are they merely statistical?

Assuming there is a ranking to the results, I would prefer the unlicensed resource continue to show where they fall but have some visual clue they are locked.

They do.

MJ. Smith

They do.

Thanks, Rosie. When I'm glancing through, something on the far right is nearly invisible. I'll have to pay attention.

Kiyah

Do the thumbs up/thumbs down train the search or are they merely statistical?

Assuming there is a ranking to the results, I would prefer the unlicensed resource continue to show where they fall but have some visual clue they are locked.

They do.

Rosie you must have a massive library. Most of your search results are showing as unlocked. I don't have a small library (just under 9,200 resources) but most of my results are showing as locked.

Rosie Perera

Rosie you must have a massive library. Most of your search results are showing as unlocked. I don't have a small library (just under 9,200 resources) but most of my results are showing as locked.

Yeah, I've got ~29,000 resources. Not counting the tens of thousands that are hidden. Mostly those freebie collections -- Library of Early English History and Library of Early American History.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

Do the thumbs up/thumbs down train the search or are they merely statistical?

Merely statistical at this stage. There are ways we can potentially tweak the engine, but before we do that, we want to get a sense of how people use it and what type of queries need improvements.

John Fidel

Very impressive start! I think this will really open up access to many resources that would otherwise be over looked in our studies. However, in the current form I am getting much more hits from the store than my own library. This makes sense given the number of books available in the store. I am not opposed to having the store included in the search, but would like a better way to filter the results to see what is in my own library.

Keep up the development of this.

John Fidel

Ran this search in the experimental search: difference between ἀγάπη vs φιλέω

ἀγάπη NEAR φιλέω in book search and the results were much more broad as expected. I probably could have constructed the search to be more specific, but it was helpful to not have to with the experimental search.

Quite impressed. It would be nice to be able to use the lemma:g:agape rather than type or copy the Greek (or Hebrew).

John Fidel

This search was much better from a books search:

"Jesus in the old testament"

The experimental search brought up titles of books that matched this search from the Store, but did not do as accurate a job of finding material in my library. I assume that " " is not used in the experimental search.

So, for searches that are easily created such as above, the book search is better. For broad questions where the search syntax for book search is difficult, the experimental search is a better start.

John Fidel

This search was much better from a books search:

"Jesus in the old testament"

So, for searches that are easily created such as above, the book search is better. For broad questions where the search syntax for book search is difficult, the experimental search is a better start.

Graham Criddle

As others have said, this looks it could be really useful and a great addition to what Logos already provide.

I tried two searches side-by-side:

were the seven days of creation seven 24-hour days?
were the seven days of creation seven undefined periods?

It was interesting to see that while both searches started with the same article, they then diverged although there was comminality in the sets of results.

as the two strings are effectively asking the same question - but from a different starting point - it's interesting to see how there are answers "on both sides" in each set of responses.

I was also impressed with the articles suggested by the query "on what day of the week did the last supper take place?"

Graham Criddle

The experimental search brought up titles of books that matched this search from the Store, but did not do as accurate a job of finding material in my library. I assume that " " is not used in the experimental search.

When I tried this search I got mainly "section headings" as opposed to book titles.

Would that explain some of what you saw?

DMB

For broad questions where the search syntax for book search is difficult, the experimental search is a better start.

Obviously, they'll tweak this and that. Especially your OL transliteration suggestion. Definitely.

But the 'boundary' between this and the existing search is hard to evaluate. I was trying to find sprinkling as purification in 2nd Temple writings. I read it last week. The new search split the difference, jewish/law/messianic vs Christian doctrinal discussions. The older search, I'd force it using various limiters.

Mark Smith

I am getting better results. That's good.

In some searches there is a box at the top of the listings with the word Answers. What is this?

I also would like the option to search my books only, and store books only, or the combination.

Brian Davidson

In some searches there is a box at the top of the listings with the word Answers. What is this?

I agree this section seems weird. The best results are not usually there.

I'm finding good hits in books that I don't own. This is information that is very valuable. I can see why someone would want to toggle such results on/off, but for my purposes I definitely want hits in books I don't own.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

This search was much better from a books search:

"Jesus in the old testament"

The new search engine is tuned to try and provide broad results for broad questions. Jesus in the Old Testament is a pretty broad search, and therefore you're mostly getting results in articles that deal exclusively with that topic.

Try tightening your query to get more specific results. For example, do you mean messianic prophecies in the Old Testament? Or do you mean Christophanies in the Old Testament?

Double-quotes are taken into consideration, by the way, but that doesn't necessarily exclude a result that talks about Jesus and the Old Testament or Jesus in the OT being surfaced.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

In some searches there is a box at the top of the listings with the word Answers. What is this?

We're using AI to try and identify snippets that directly answer the question that you've asked, and move them to the top of the results and inside the box. You'll likely find that box appearing when you ask natural language questions like How far is Bethlehem from Jerusalem? or What is glossolalia?. Keyword searches are much less likely to show the box.

In the answer box, the bold part of the snippet should answer your question directly. In the normal search results, we tend to bold keywords, instead of the "answer".

However, like most things AI, it isn't perfect, so your feedback on these "Answers" is very valuable.

Graham Criddle

Hi Mark

maybe stating the obvious but just wanted to check.

it looks like the purpose of the new search engine is to search our resources (either ones we own or ones in the Logos catalog) as opposed to giving definitive answers to questions

is that correct?

Thanks, Graham

Mark Smith

In some searches there is a box at the top of the listings with the word Answers. What is this?

We're using AI to try and identify snippets that directly answer the question that you've asked, and move them to the top of the results and inside the box. You'll likely find that box appearing when you ask natural language questions like How far is Bethlehem from Jerusalem? or What is glossolalia?. Keyword searches are much less likely to show the box.

In the answer box, the bold part of the snippet should answer your question directly. In the normal search results, we tend to bold keywords, instead of the "answer".

However, like most things AI, it isn't perfect, so your feedback on these "Answers" is very valuable.

OK. I'll examine those results with that information in mind.

I love this so far! My feedback:

- The results are much more usable than the current implementation of the All Search.

- Helps me better discover the resources I have (or don't have) pertaining to the topic/content I'm searching for.

- Hope the final version will have:

a) the ability to filter by books I own or not own;

b) the Group By options of the current Books search;

c) the "cards" in the results of the current All search.

- Can this be implemented for Bible Search as well? Or is Fuzzy Search already it?

- I tried running a couple of searches in Traditional Chinese. I can't tell whether the Experimental Search is vastly better than the current All Search or Books Search. But at least the Experimental Search doesn't seem to just searching for one of the characters in a phrase when I was trying to search for the phrase.

E.g. I was searching for 天堂 (heaven); the existing searches would return results with just the character 天 (sky). Same with 地獄 (hell) returning results with 地 (earth) only. The new search doesn't appear to do that. I didn't do extensive testing so this assertion needs to be further tested.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

it looks like the purpose of the new search engine is to search our resources (either ones we own or ones in the Logos catalog) as opposed to giving definitive answers to questions

It's both. We never use AI to generate text to give you a definitive answer (assuming one exists!), but we do use AI to try and point you to a resource that gives you a definitive answer, perhaps even in the snippet.

MJ. Smith

As this search is not Bible oriented, I would like to see the Bible Browser updated with the newer label facets, its facets provided a more hierarchical structure, and the opening of the browser integrated into the Search panel. This new search plus the Bible Browser would give solid search results for the new users (in addition to their use for more experienced users).

Graham Criddle

It's both. We never use AI to generate text to give you a definitive answer (assuming one exists!), but we do use AI to try and point you to a resource that gives you a definitive answer, perhaps even in the snippet.

Thanks Mark - that's helpful

Lawrence Peh

I like the option of a semantic search alongside the traditional search.

I entered "significant words in John 7:37-41", and noticed that a lot of the early results came from a single resource.

Here are a couple of things to consider:

1. Group hits by resource. A given resource might be either a goldmine or a mirage. Grouping by resource (with a collapse/expand control) allows the user to either drill deeper or to bypass it.

2. Have a 1-2-3-4-5 set of buttons next to each hit so the user can do a quick first-pass categorisation through the hits.

Bill

I really like the "experimental" search!

It's quick and simple, no formulas or special characters to remember
Just type in a word, phrase, person, place or a question in plain English and it works!
I like that it found hits even in books I would not have thought to look in, some helpful, some not so much.
As others have noted, I like that it shows hits from the store, but the text from the store books does not contain enough information to determine if I want to purchase it. Most of the time it doesn't even mention the subject I searched.
Also as other have noted, I would like store books sorted separately below my library books
This simpler search tool would satisfy many (not all) of my search needs. I would still want the current search tool for more refined searching

Excellent job Mark and FaithLife or Logos of FaithLife or...[:D]!!

Bill

Question?

Assuming this would eventually roll out to the desktop app, how would the search list and display cloud books?

Mark Smith

One other question:

How are the responses under (not in) the Answers box sorted? Is there some sort of ranking going on?

Some wishes:

Grouping hits by book or author.

Ability to search a set of resources rather than all of them.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

Assuming this would eventually roll out to the desktop app, how would the search list and display cloud books?

This is still very early stages, but I'd assume the display would be similar to All Search, with icons for Cloud Books and Print Library books.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

How are the responses under (not in) the Answers box sorted? Is there some sort of ranking going on?

Yes, there's a relevance ranking. It's a different algorithm to the one used in the current engine. It uses machine learning to measure the similarity of words/phrases in your query with words/phrases in the article. So, for example, if you searched for something to do with glossolalia, the ranking mechanism would promote articles that frequently mentioned glossolalia (the same as the old engine). But it would also rank fairly highly articles that only mentioned glossolalia once but also had several references to "speaking in tongues" – because the engine knows that "glossolalia" and "speaking in tongues" are very similar in meaning.

This process seems to work pretty well most of the time but can become unstuck, especially when you're interested in something very specific and don't want similar words to be found as well. In these cases, the current search engine tends to perform better.

Mal Walker

Thanks for giving us the opportunity to play around and give some feedback on this Mark. It's very much appreciated!

Like everyone else has said, the ability to sort or limit answers would be good - e.g. All resources in my library. Only print books. Only this specific collection. Only this author but include both owned and unowned resources.

I love the simplicity of it. However, I think when you roll it out you will need to illustrate (perhaps like you have done with the other search functions) how one might input a question and what answers to expect. As the search function is presented right now, it looks and feels just like google or any other A.I. input. This is good, it makes users feel comfortable, and that I can search without having to have a PhD in boolean. Lowering the barriers to access/learning curve is probably the best thing logos can be doing right now. However, the answers don't match my expectation. For example, compare this search query performed in logos and OpenAI

I suspect my discomfort arises from some expectation that when I ask a question using natural language, I expect an answer using natural language - not a catalogue list of resources I don't own. I feel like the way around this is to just set clear expectations for the user right up front, maybe something in the search field like 'Enter anything - no special syntax required, and Logos will find the closet matches in your resources.'

Connected to that, it's not clear at this stage when you expect me to use this search engine verses the others. I understand that the others allow me to be much more specific, but where is the line? When should I use one over the other? The focus seems to be in matching questions to keywords in resources, not the bible. Am I using it wrong when I perform searches like the one below?

Additionally, what is the relationship between the search results and the prioritization feature within our libraries? I'm assuming that at this stage the engine is trying to find the closest match to our search from the entire logos library, regardless of our personal prioritizations?

Bill

I'd assume the display would be similar to All Search, with icons for Cloud Books and Print Library books.

That makes sense.

Thanks Mark

Dave Hooton

predictions of christ's return - first few results were ok and then the focus on his "return" was dropped.

when will Jesus return - was much better with more books from my library!

pretribulation rapture - was very good except i had to buy one of the books!

I'm impressed so far.

I'm very much into eschatology and Revelation and it has helped speed up my research into various topics. Rephrasing helps with relevancy.

Query: God divorces Israel

#5 = 2. The Practice of Divorce in Israel Dictionary of the Old Testament: Prophets (p. 535)

---> "God" is missing from the highlighted text in that heading, but it omits two less relevant headings where "divorce" and "Israel" are also present.

#8 = The Plot of the Twelve: Warnings of Impending Divorce from Israel Introduction to the Prophets (p. 209)

---> All three words are present in the highlighted text and I would have rated it higher than the previous result.

Both books are (obviously) in my Library. The first four deserve their place and show that:

[match all forms] works with "divorces"
"Yahweh" is recognised as God

But is YHWH recognised as God as DOTP (#5 above) may have gained additional results (and deserved its ranking)?

EDIT: Altering the query to YHWH divorces Israel shows the same result for DOTP, which is now the #2 result whilst Introduction to the Prophets drops to #13 whilst bringing in another owned book at #11 because of YHWH. Most of the intervening results were not relevant, so whilst YHWH is recognised it appears to not be strictly equivalent to God?

Brent Carlson

Mark,

I find the new search tool useful. What I was attempting to do though was find more Wesleyan/Church of the Nazarene sources; but I am guessing there probably isn't much that FaithLife has purchased from the now defunct Nazarene Publishing House. I am trying to find some old books that I have in boxes that I might be able to incorporate into Logos so that it might be possible to get rid of my rather large book library that is sitting in boxes in storage because I have so little room. I found a few Adam Clarke and Greathouse books. I found the tool easy to use.

Brian Evans

Nazarene Publishing House isn't defunct, its name was changed to https://www.thefoundrypublishing.com/ and yes, I wish more of their books were in Logos, especially the new volume by Dr Noble.
On topic: I am enjoying the new search feature but the increased reading load is starting to add up.

Fr Devin Roza

Congrats, Mark. This is a huge improvement.

I feel like this type of technology will finally allow us to stop going to Google when we want to find something we know we have in our library [:)].

It feels to me like the type of search that should be the default search for the software, once it's optimized. With the other searches being for more precise use cases (and still in desperate need of a UI - along the lines of the Bible Browser UI, for example - to allow the user to browse and insert advanced search syntax).

Brent Carlson

Nazarene Publishing House isn't defunct, its name was changed to https://www.thefoundrypublishing.com/ and yes, I wish more of their books were in Logos, especially the new volume by Dr Noble.
On topic: I am enjoying the new search feature but the increased reading load is starting to add up.

I think I saw that, but my old account doesn't work. At the end of the day, I like the new search engine.

Fr Devin Roza

One search which has failed for me is "list of psams by theme" or "give me a list of psalms by theme" or "list of psalms by topic."

None of them seemed to be able to figure out where such a list in the library might exist. Whereas Google immediately gives relevant results.

Joey Midgett

Oh my gosh, I love this. This would have to be the feature of the year for me. Thank you so much for all you guys do to innovate this software.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

I suspect my discomfort arises from some expectation that when I ask a question using natural language, I expect an answer using natural language - not a catalogue list of resources I don't own. I

We've experimented quite a bit with different AI approaches. We could of course, just pipe the query through to ChatGPT, but it simply hallucinates too often for serious trusted study, at least at the moment. Take this example, from one of the questions you asked of experimental search:

We've also tried "feeding" a large-language model with "answers" from our resources in order to get a natural language "answer" back. Using one of our private prototypes, I tried that, and it gave me a confident but wrong answer of 19 times to the same question.

We're running lots of experiments and trying to follow the constantly-changing technology, but at the moment, we're not convinced that ChatGPT and its siblings are sufficiently accurate to incorporate into Logos.

Jonathan Bradley

Right now, I am just using this for basic searches; I never really got into the crazy syntax searching and everything (but I'm sure that will come soon for me). I am really enjoying what it's bringing up, even in the realm of things I do not own. Thank you for this!

Tes

Very helpful. It would be good if there could be the option of changing other English

languages from

Kiyah

This search gave me pretty good results:

[quote]

What does ἐμβατεύων mean in Colossians 2:18?

But when I tried:

[quote]

What does ἐμβατεύων or embateuōn mean in Colossians 2:18?

It doesn't seem to work as well. It seems like my results weren't accounting for the transliteration and that those were alternative terms for the same search. The first search got the best results but I wanted to make sure I got any results that happened to transliterate the Greek.

Could it be programmed to automatically look for both non-transliterated and transliterated results when you put in an original language term? Could it even be smart enough to search for both the inflected form I entered and its lemma?

Lynden O. Williams

Question "who is the strongest man in the Bible" It cannot find the answer

Question "how old was adam when he died"? Lexham Bible dictionary nailed it, which was the first answer.

Michael Atnip

My two test queries were "ontological justification in the early church" and "what was the Origenist Controversy." The first one did not return any results that other search engines might return, partly because the search engine (naturally!) did not understand the difference between ontological justification in contrast to judicial justification, and so returned results that dealt with discussions about ontology. So this search was not all that impressive for me.

The second query did return a lot of correct hits because the phrase "Origenist Controversy" is used regularly in texts. It did bring in some "related" terms that a regular search engine would have probably missed.

So while any improvement in searching texts for content are welcome, we still need to think for ourselves and imagine what related search terms would be relevant for our study. If and when the day comes when we rely on search engines to do our critical thinking and to replace our human ingenuity, we have truly lost something extremely valuable and God-given.

Nathan Parker

We've been working on a brand-new search engine that doesn't require special syntax to answer your queries. It's very experimental at this stage, but we'd love your feedback.

We're not yet ready to include the search engine in the desktop app, but you can access it on web here: https://beta.app.logos.com/search?kind=semantic

We'd love you to run real questions/queries there and use the thumbs-up/thumbs-down icons in the results to let us know how well the engine has answered your query.

Then come back to this thread and let us know your overall impressions.

To be clear, we don't intend to replace our existing search engine with all its advanced syntax. That won't be going away. And it's designed for searching your books, not the Bible. But we hope it will have a place in making search even simpler.

Do you have a sample search query you want us to try? So far, everything I've run by it is identical to what I get in the desktop app. I must be doing something wrong. :-)

Mark Barnes (Logos)

Do you have a sample search query you want us to try? So far, everything I've run by it is identical to what I get in the desktop app. I must be doing something wrong. :-)

No, we want to learn how people use a search engine like this.

Make sure you're on the beta web app (https://beta.app.logos.com) and are on the Experimental search type.

Kiyah

Is there a way for us to see our search history for the Experimental search tab? It would be nice to go back to an old search when you can't remember exactly what you typed in.

MJ. Smith

I was reading The Book of Enoch | The Eastern Anglo-Saxonist (wordpress.com) which discusses the demonic origins of metalwork. Which got me wondering how the new search handled issues rooted in Christian studies but outside the more narrow confines of Logos' definition of Bible studies. So I tried "demonic origin metalwork" in the new search. I was pleasantly surprised at how close to the subject it stuck while finding nothing that actually met the request. I would have been even happier if the search returned a resource available in Logos that discussed this odd bit of trivia ... but such breadth is not yet available.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

We recently made a significant addition to the Experimental search engine. You now have the ability to create AI-generated summaries of any search result, as you can see in the screenshot below.

So three questions:

Do you find these summaries accurate?
Do they make it quicker for you to get answers to your questions or see whether an article is relevant?
Do they make it easier for you to see whether a book you don't own is relevant and helpful for you?

To generate a summary for any search result, hover over the snippet and click the Summarize button which will appear next to the thumbs up/down indicators.

This is experimental, so any and all feedback is helpful.

Wow!! Answers to your questions:

1. Yes!

2. Yes!

3. Yes!

Can we have this ("Summarize") as a separate function available as a button, for us to summarize any blob of text (a section, a chapter, an article, a whole book)?

Answers to your questions:

1. Yes - for sure; please get this released sooner rather than later (doesn't have to be perfect to release it)

2. Yes - for sure; soon, please

3. Yes, only insofar as I can see. Since I do not own the books that it summarizes, I cannot give an accurate assessment of the summary. If the summary is accurate, then this would be very helpful indeed.

Dave Hooton

So three questions:

Do you find these summaries accurate?

Do they make it quicker for you to get answers to your questions or see whether an article is relevant?

Do they make it easier for you to see whether a book you don't own is relevant and helpful for you?

1. They seem reasonable for books not in my Library, and comprehensive for those I have.

2. Yes

3. Yes

Gary Pajkos

I like any and all additions to Logos, especially where there is no need for special syntax. This is helpful and if I want to go deeper I can add the special syntax.

Thank you again for the continued development in the Web App and Desktop App.

abondservant

We've been working on a brand-new search engine that doesn't require special syntax to answer your queries. It's very experimental at this stage, but we'd love your feedback.

We're not yet ready to include the search engine in the desktop app, but you can access it on web here: https://beta.app.logos.com/search?kind=semantic

We'd love you to run real questions/queries there and use the thumbs-up/thumbs-down icons in the results to let us know how well the engine has answered your query.

Then come back to this thread and let us know your overall impressions.

To be clear, we don't intend to replace our existing search engine with all its advanced syntax. That won't be going away. And it's designed for searching your books, not the Bible. But we hope it will have a place in making search even simpler.

Interesting! I'll check this out.

Armin

We're not yet ready to include the search engine in the desktop app, but you can access it on web here: https://beta.app.logos.com/search?kind=semantic

Can't wait for this to be included in the desktop app.

xnman

We're not yet ready to include the search engine in the desktop app, but you can access it on web here: https://beta.app.logos.com/search?kind=semantic

Can't wait for this to be included in the desktop app.

I'm eagerly waiting also!

Mark Barnes (Logos)

It's now possible to use the new experimental search to search a single book. It's not really designed to be used that way, but some people have asked for it, so we wanted to give you the opportunity to test it out.

(Unfortunately, not all books are indexed in the new search yet. If you have a large library, you may find some resources incorrectly return no results.)

Tes

It's now possible to use the new experimental search to search a single book. It's not really designed to be used that way, but some people have asked for it, so we wanted to give you the opportunity to test it out.

(Unfortunately, not all books are indexed in the new search yet. If you have a large library, you may find some resources incorrectly return no results.)

Thank you Marks for the great effort has been done.

Kiyah

BUG:

When the experimental search is set to "Your Books" it still includes unlicensed books.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

Thanks, Kiyah. We'll get that fixed.

Kiyah

Thanks, Kiyah. We'll get that fixed.

FYI...When I switched to All Books and then switched back to Your Books it now only shows my books. It seems as if the glitch is just on the initial load of the search window with "Your Books" preselected. It displays results for unlicensed books until you switch to "All Books" and then switch it back to "Your Books". I closed and reopened the web app and got the same problem. On the initial load, "Your Books" is preselected but the results include all books.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

As we continue to iterate on this, we're thinking of adding some very simple search syntax for those occasions when the results are too broad or too narrow.

A minus sign before a word would mean to exclude any articles that included that word: e.g.. dead sea -scrolls

But what syntax should we use the ensure that ALL articles included a word? Two have been suggested:

dead sea "scrolls"
dead sea +scrolls

Which of those (or something else) do you think would be best and most intuitive?

PS - by default, this search engine returns results that include ANY of the words but ranks much more highly results that include all the words. That would continue to be the default, because it seems to work pretty well, but these would give power users just a little more control.

Graham Criddle

dead sea "scrolls"

dead sea +scrolls

Which of those (or something else) do you think would be best and most intuitive?

For me the +scrolls would work best and be consistent with other systems.

MJ. Smith

But what syntax should we use the ensure that ALL articles included a word? Two have been suggested:

dead sea "scrolls"

dead sea +scrolls

The quotes are compatible with my other software but I think the + is a better choice given the use of quotes for text strings.

neha

It's exciting to anticipate the inclusion of the search engine in the desktop app. While it may not be ready for integration just yet, the ability to access it through the web version here: https://beta.app.logos.com/search?kind=semantic offers a great opportunity to explore its features in the meantime. Rest assured, the Logos team is continuously working on enhancements to provide users with an exceptional experience.

Stephan Thelen

I get the impression that the AI summary provides a general summary of the linked article, but would find it much more helpful if the summary directly addresses the search query.

Matt Doebler

Very nice and intuitive for quick searches. I've grown a little disillusioned lately with the factbook, especially when trying to use it as a jumping off place to dig further into my library. Just did a couple of quick searches for "zwingli, lord's supper" and "the interior castle" and was quickly directed to resources in my library that seem like they would be helpful to consult. I like that this is not intended to replace, but to supplement, the syntax-driven search engine.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

Thanks for all the feedback on this thread. It’s been extremely helpful in crystallising our thinking. We’re going to continue to invest a significant amount of development effort to improving this experimental search with a view to better integrating it into users’ workflows. To do that, we need to take this experimental search down, probably for a couple of months.

Thanks again for all the feedback!

Rosie Perera

Thanks for all the feedback on this thread. It’s been extremely helpful in crystallising our thinking. We’re going to continue to invest a significant amount of development effort to improving this experimental search with a view to better integrating it into users’ workflows. To do that, we need to take this experimental search down, probably for a couple of months.

Thanks again for all the feedback!

Thanks for letting us play with it for a while. I hope it comes back integrated into Logos Desktop in the not-too-distant future. [:)]

Garrell Calton

Mark, Thanks again. Already looking forward to this thread opening back up and seeing how Logos integrates all new features with thoughts from this thread!!

Armin

we need to take this experimental search down, probably for a couple of months.

[:'(] [:'(]

Sean

we need to take this experimental search down, probably for a couple of months.

Of course, when I started using it for the first time like 3 days ago.

Kiyah

Thanks for all the feedback on this thread. It’s been extremely helpful in crystallising our thinking. We’re going to continue to invest a significant amount of development effort to improving this experimental search with a view to better integrating it into users’ workflows. To do that, we need to take this experimental search down, probably for a couple of months.

Thanks again for all the feedback!

Aw man, I wanted to use it today. [:(] Thanks for all of your hard work on developing this tool.

Daniel Glavey

Google has created NotebookLM which allows you to ask questions of more than one resource at a time if you wish. With Notebook LM it can only answer questions found in the documents downloaded not on the internet. That type of capability would be an incredible resource within Logos.

Dave Hooton

Welcome Daniel,

Google has created NotebookLM which allows you to ask questions of more than one resource at a time if you wish. With Notebook LM it can only answer questions found in the documents downloaded not on the internet. That type of capability would be an incredible resource within Logos.

This type of Search facility has been tested just recently and may be made available in the version 32 of Logos just released. One "Smart" search will use resources you don't own and another uses your books or a collection.

Anderson Abreu

We've been working on a brand-new search engine that doesn't require special syntax to answer your queries. It's very experimental at this stage, but we'd love your feedback.

We're not yet ready to include the search engine in the desktop app, but you can access it on web here: https://beta.app.logos.com/search?kind=semantic

We'd love you to run real questions/queries there and use the thumbs-up/thumbs-down icons in the results to let us know how well the engine has answered your query.

Then come back to this thread and let us know your overall impressions.

To be clear, we don't intend to replace our existing search engine with all its advanced syntax. That won't be going away. And it's designed for searching your books, not the Bible. But we hope it will have a place in making search even simpler.

I understand that current search operators are very good for exact searches. I can't imagine using Logos without them. With the improvements brought in Logos 10, it has become more practical.

But I believe that the "Help" manual should be more explanatory and more disseminated among users. There could be links to the help manual on the search page from where users could go straight to the part of the manual (Help) that explains the use of that operator.

In the case of Help ou "Ajuda" in Portuguese, it is not fully translated. There are parts in English mixed with Portuguese. Among the friends I know and talk to, none have accessed the "Help" (Ajuda) file.

Graham Criddle

There could be links to the help manual on the search page

There are links to the help file from a blank search panel

that explains the use of that operator.

There are examples of these in the search helps (shown in the bottom of my screenshot)

What additional links would be helpful?

Anderson Abreu

There could be links to the help manual on the search page

There are links to the help file from a blank search panel

that explains the use of that operator.

There are examples of these in the search helps (shown in the bottom of my screenshot)

What additional links would be helpful?

Sorry, I didn't express myself correctly. I know there is a mention and link on the search page. I wanted to say that there should be a link next to each example of using operators on that page and that these links would take directly to the place where it is explained.

Graham Criddle

I wanted to say that there should be a link next to each example of using operators on that page and that these links would take directly to the place where it is explained.

Thank you - that clarifies it for me.