I've noticed the same thing on Mac. At first I thought it was because I was on Beta but even being on the latest stable update doesn't seem to solve the issue. I figured it was because of my hardware, but it seems others are having the same issue. I've learned to live with a lot of it, but a minor annoyance is the time it takes to open up the context menu when selecting a word from the Bible text... I can actually see it populate now and it takes anywhere from 2-9 seconds to open up the full context menu.
Logos Version 28 is significantly slower than V.27
Pitrell
Member Posts: 112 ✭✭
I always have several full-screen Logos windows (6 of them) open in parallel. Everything has become significantly slower with the update to version 28. The linked scrolling of resources is now partly a slideshow, especially if 'Information', 'Lookup' and 'Explorer' are also running. Graphic-heavy assistants like the Psalm Explorer are jerky or take a second to think after each mouse click.
I activated an old backup with Logos version 27.3.26 and the difference is significant. So it is not because of my hardware. But for troubleshooting here are my specifications:
Windows 11
AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core
NVIDIA RTX 3080
48 GB Ram
700 GB free SSD Ram on the logos partition
It would help me a lot to be able to make a rollback to the old version. My backup doesn't work anymore as soon as I turn on the internet and Logos recognizes that there is a new version.
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I've noticed the same thing on Mac. At first I thought it was because I was on Beta but even being on the latest stable update doesn't seem to solve the issue. I figured it was because of my hardware, but it seems others are having the same issue. I've learned to live with a lot of it, but a minor annoyance is the time it takes to open up the context menu when selecting a word from the Bible text... I can actually see it populate now and it takes anywhere from 2-9 seconds to open up the full context menu.
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Maybe I lucked out. I have my Verbum Update Channel = No. Still on 27.x.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I have a very fast Mac so I have not seen any issues with lots of linked panels moving quickly together, but like Frank on his Mac I clearly see the context menu populating on a Bible word selection, which I never had before. Something extra is chewing up cycles.
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Pitrell said:
Then, by all means, wait. I also just additionally noticed that typing a note or search string is also very slow
there is a lag when typing, erasing with keyboard in Verbum 28, which is why I kept Logos 27. The latter is more responsive and these are side-by-side on my laptop.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
there is a lag when typing, erasing with keyboard in Verbum 28, which is why I kept Logos 27. The latter is more responsive and these are side-by-side on my laptop.
I'm struggling with that "lag when typing/erasing with the keyboard" in Logos 28.0.34. Closing a restarting Logos seems to help sometimes.
(Windows 11 pro, i7 CPU, 32GB RAM, Logos on SSD).
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Allen Browne said:
I'm struggling with that "lag when typing/erasing with the keyboard" in Logos 28.0.34. Closing a restarting Logos seems to help sometimes.
(Windows 11 pro, i7 CPU, 32GB RAM, Logos on SSD).
Yes! I am experiencing exactly this also. It takes a little while to start lagging while typing in Sermon Builder, but then it is very hard to use. After a restart, it corrects the issue for a while, but then eventually starts lagging again.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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I just want to pop in here and say that the team is aware of these reports. We are working hard to track down the issue, but have yet to consistently reproduce an issue in v28. If you feel like you are experiencing a significant slowdown in v28, we'd love to get a few more details, specifically:
- Are you running Windows or Mac?
- What actions are slow? Just certain ones, like typing in notes or sermons, or is everything running slowly?
- How long have you been running the app before seeing performance issues? Does restarting the app temporarily provide relief?
- If you could open up Activity Monitor on Mac or Task Manager on Windows, I would be curious to confirm that you are seeing high RAM utilization on Logos.
- How many panels do you have open? It would be extra nice to get a screenshot or two of layouts that are having problems.
Thank you for helping us track this one down.
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1 Are you running Windows or Mac?
Windows 11 pro (64 bit)
2 What actions are slow? Just certain ones, like typing in notes or sermons, or is everything running slowly?
Just typing a bible ref (such as Mark 1 1) into a Bible window is impossibly slow at times. If I make a misake (say Msrk) and backspace characters, I'm waiting long enough that I try clicking with the mouse, but the lag means the mouse still ends up in the wrong spot.
3 How long have you been running the app before seeing performance issues? Does restarting the app temporarily provide relief?
It's instantaneous, especailly the first time I start Logos in the morning.
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Nick Mueller said:
Are you running Windows or Mac?
Windows 11 Home (10.0.22621 Build 22621)
Lenovo Yoga 7, i7-12700H, 32GB RAM
Targus Quad Docking Station with Four Monitors
Nick Mueller said:What actions are slow? Just certain ones, like typing in notes or sermons, or is everything running slowly?
I have just noticed it in the sermon builder while typing. The typing starts to lag considerably.
Nick Mueller said:How long have you been running the app before seeing performance issues? Does restarting the app temporarily provide relief?
I am not exactly sure how long it takes. I would guess that in two hours or so of working, I would have to restart Logos twice maybe. So the lagging starts from 30 minutes to an hour possibly.
Restarting indeed fixes the issue for a while.
Nick Mueller said:If you could open up Activity Monitor on Mac or Task Manager on Windows, I would be curious to confirm that you are seeing high RAM utilization on Logos.
Logos opens for me and idles with nothing open but the homepage at 919.9 MB of RAM.
With just a sermon and bible opened, it runs from 1750-1950 MB.
With the layout attached open, it also strangely enough runs at 1650-1950 MB.
Once I've had any layout opened and I close everything and go back to the homepage only, RAM stays at 1675 MB.
Nick Mueller said:How many panels do you have open? It would be extra nice to get a screenshot or two of layouts that are having problems.
Four windows across four monitors. This seems like a lot, but these same layouts have not been a problem in the past.
The last monitor is verticle, and the top was cut off while clipping the image.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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Are you running Windows or Mac?
Windows 11 Home
What actions are slow? Just certain ones, like typing in notes or sermons, or is everything running slowly?Everything I try to do is slow compared to version 27.
How long have you been running the app before seeing performance issues?It's immediate and it doesn't matter how long its been running.
Does restarting the app temporarily provide relief?
No
If you could open up Activity Monitor on Mac or Task Manager on Windows, I would be curious to confirm that you are seeing high RAM utilization on Logos.
At idle doing nothing 8.7% can't really determine ram util while I'm using it, if there is a way to determine that let me know.
How many panels do you have open?18 windows with multiple tabs, and Chrome running, 1 or 2 PDFs and MS Word.
It would be extra nice to get a screenshot or two of layouts that are having problems.
All of them have the problem.
My specs:
Overview
Computer model: HP OMEN 30L Desktop GT13-0xxx
Operating system: Microsoft Windows 11 Home (10.0, Build 22621)
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10850K CPU @ 3.60GHz 10/20 (Overclocked to 4.x+)
Motherboard: HP 8703
RAM: 32 GB
Hard disk1: NVMe WD Green SN350 1TB (931.5 GB/Fixed hard disk media)
Hard disk2: NVMe CT4000P3PSSD8 (3.6 TB/Fixed hard disk media)
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 (24 GB)
Monitor: XXX Beyond TV (3840x2160 / 54.6 Inch)
Sound card1: NVIDIA High Definition Audio
Sound card2: (Generic USB Audio) USB Audio Device
Sound card3: Realtek High Definition Audio
Sound card4: NVIDIA Virtual Audio Device (Wave Extensible) (WDM)
Keyboard: HID Keyboard Device
Audio1: NVIDIA High Definition Audio
Audio2: HD Pro Webcam C920
Audio3: Realtek(R) Audio
Audio4: NVIDIA Virtual Audio Device (Wave Extensible) (WDM)0 -
I can send screenshots when I get home.
1. Windows 11.
2. After using the notes tool for a bit, it gets slow. I've not experienced any slowness in other areas.
3. I always have Logos open so I'm not sure, but when I restart it, it gets better for a bit.
4. Anywhere from 5-15 panels.
So glad to hear Logos is on this.
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I sent logs along with a video to tech support on Saturday. Here is a second video. I'm also running Windows 11. Resources (memory and CPU usage) don't seem to be an issue. As I mentioned when I report this over the weekend, the problem has no relation to the length of time Logos is open. The slowdown gets worse the more Logos is used (the more things are clicked in the software).
Note: Link sets don't work properly in this new build.
It would be great if we could revert to the previous build which worked fine.
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1) I am running Windows 10 pro
2) most of the slow down is seen in Sermon, starts out good, then lags
3) This just started in the past week or so
(4) I have no idea how to do that
(5) I have tried with as little as 3 panels and as many as 6-8 the results are the same.
Logos tech. did get intouch with me and did something I am not sure what, it did fix it temp. however once I have logged back in. It continues to do the same.
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Hi Sean
Sean Hachem said:Note: Link sets don't work properly in this new build.
That sounds like it could be a different, unrelated, issue to the performance one.
I recommend starting a new thread in this forum explaining the issue you are seeing
Graham
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Thanks, Graham. I'm a little confused as to the preferred method of reporting bugs. I've only been using Logos for a month and have reported a number of bugs through email. I have reported both the slowdown and the broken link sets through email. Is the forum a better place to report problems?
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Graham Criddle said:
That sounds like it could be a different, unrelated, issue to the performance one.
Also, it seems to me the slowdown could likely be related to the broken link sets. I don't notice a performance problem when I open a new layout that does not use link sets.
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Does anyone know if the same problem appears on mac?
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Hi Sean - then welcome to Logos!
Sean Hachem said:I've only been using Logos for a month and have reported a number of bugs through email
Reporting bugs through email is absolutely fine - it will get them to the Logos teams who will be able to consider and act appropriately
Sean Hachem said:Is the forum a better place to report problems?
It depends - which I know isn't a really helpful answer!
Often a lot of problems people report - particularly around lack of particular functionality - is due to not knowing fully how the software works. And the forums are an ideal place for those issues to be discussed and hopefully answers provided.
But the forums are primarily user-to-user support so we can't fix any actual bugs. Having said that, there are some Logos people who spend a lot of time here and often respond to bugs etc.
So I would probably suggest raising the issue in the forums first. Sometimes that enables solutions to be found or, at the minimum, someone else to reproduce the problem. And then, if no-one from Logos has responded here, emailing through to Logos would be a good plan.
Hope this helps
Graham
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Sean Hachem said:
Also, it seems to me the slowdown could likely be related to the broken link sets. I don't notice a performance problem when I open a new layout that does not use link sets.
That's very interesting - and it would be really useful to know if others see the same. I will admit I haven't really seen the problem but then I rarely use link sets.
But was that the only issues you were referring to with link sets? If not, that is where a separate thread could be useful.
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Graham Criddle said:
But was that the only issues you were referring to with link sets?
There is only one issue with link sets: They don't work properly. It seems to me this is the cause of the slowdown. I showed this in the video I sent to Logos tech support on Saturday. There is a long delay when scrolling resources that are linked together. When I look through my log files, I see a lot of failures with regard to the linking of resources.
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Sean Hachem said:
There is only one issue with link sets: They don't work properly. It seems to me this is the cause of the slowdown. I showed this in the video I sent to Logos tech support on Saturday. There is a long delay when scrolling resources that are linked together. When I look through my log files, I see a lot of failures with regard to the linking of resources.
Can you please post those log files here?
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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Andrew Batishko said:
Can you please post those log files here?
I sent one set of logs Saturday night and another Sunday morning. Here is the set from Sunday morning. 8228.Logs.zip
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Andrew Batishko said:
Can you please post those log files here?
Here's another set of logs I just collected. I started without using link sets and clicked through a number of functions. Then I switched layouts to one that uses link sets. You can see that I started getting "unexpected link set" errors. A short while later, response times started going way up.
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Anyone know how to return to the previous version until this is fixed? Mine is becoming almost unbearable. I'm using Windows 10.
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- Are you running Windows or Mac?
- Windows 11
- What actions are slow? Just certain ones, like typing in notes or sermons, or is everything running slowly?
- typing and erasing in any input box, a 5 letter word will appear after the last letter is typed. Erasing can lag by 2 or 3 letters.
- How long have you been running the app before seeing performance issues? Does restarting the app temporarily provide relief?
- c.20 minutes and restarting provides temporary relief
- If you could open up Activity Monitor on Mac or Task Manager on Windows, I would be curious to confirm that you are seeing high RAM utilization on Logos.
- I opened Logos 27 (side by side) a few minutes after restarting Verbum 28, repeated some typing/erasing and Logos is using 734 MB vs 770 MB (both 'at rest').
- How many panels do you have open? It would be extra nice to get a screenshot or two of layouts that are having problems.
- 15 in Verbum and Logos (same layout, similar locations)
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Matthew Carver said:
Anyone know how to return to the previous version until this is fixed?
I just found out the hard way that it's not possible to return to a previous version. I contacted support and got the previous version's install package. They told me I would have to uninstall the current version, then install the previous version. They said as long as I turned off automatic updates, I could then reinstall my library without the new software. Unfortunately, that information was incorrect. The first thing Logos does is download the current software. I have asked for a new feature that would separate software updates from other updates.
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Sean Hachem said:
I just found out the hard way that it's not possible to return to a previous version. I contacted support and got the previous version's install package. They told me I would have to uninstall the current version, then install the previous version. They said as long as I turned off automatic updates, I could then reinstall my library without the new software. Unfortunately, that information was incorrect. The first thing Logos does is download the current software. I have asked for a new feature that would separate software updates from other updates.
Command Set Update Channel to Manual disables automatic software updating. Resources can be automatically downloaded.
Command Set Update Channel to Stable enables automatic software update (default setting). Alternative is manually downloading latest stable release from https://www.logos.com/install or https://verbum.com/install followed by closing application & indexer then install update.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Sean Hachem said:
Can you please tell me where this setting is? Is this in the Windows version?
CLICK Tools [near upper left screen] [is 9 tiny squares]
FIND Utilities [scroll down]
CLICK Program Settings
FIND Internet [scroll down to this sub-heading]
CLICK Automatically Start Downloads to NO
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Sean Hachem said:
I contacted support and got the previous version's install package.
Can you provide us the (Windows) package, from the earlier version? Probably this is the faster way than everyone writing to the support. [:)]
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Pitrell said:
Can you provide us the (Windows) package, from the earlier version? Probably this is the faster way than everyone writing to the support.
It didn't work after support gave me the link, but thanks to "Keep Smiling 4 Jesus" and some digging through the forums, here is the procedure:
- As shown in the video, you will first need to turn off automatic downloads IN THE CURRENT VERSION.
- Then, uninstall Logos.
- Download and install one of the two previous versions using the links below.
- Once you install and open that version, type set update channel to manual in the "Passage or topic" box, then press enter.
- Now, you can turn automatic updates back on. The software will not update, but your books and everything else will.
Here is the link to version 27.3 (Note that link sets are broken in this version.) https://downloads.logoscdn.com/LBS10/Installer/27.3.0.0026/LogosSetup.exe
Here is the link to version 27.2 (I'm using this version.) https://downloads.logoscdn.com/LBS10/Installer/27.2.0.0021/LogosSetup.exe
After the Logos tech folks fix the issue. I think automatic software updates can be resumed by entering the command: set update channel to stable
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I'm on windows 11 fully updated.
Typing and erasing are the slowest in notes and/or sermon editor.
It starts slowing down for me about 5 to 10 minutes after I start it up and gets progressively worse.
In task manager I see this "Logos Bible Study (8) Memory at 1,601.3 MB. I have a total of 32GB of RAM.
I have 8 panels active but it wouldn't let me upload the picture as it gave an error.
It also happens in my 5 active panel layout in the sermon editor.
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Sean Hachem said:
It didn't work after support gave me the link, but thanks to "Keep Smiling 4 Jesus" and some digging through the forums, here is the procedure:
Great Sean, thank you! I'll give it a try too.
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Sean Hachem said:
It didn't work after support gave me the link, but thanks to "Keep Smiling 4 Jesus" and some digging through the forums, here is the procedure:
- As shown in the video, you will first need to turn off automatic downloads IN THE CURRENT VERSION.
- Then, uninstall Logos.
- Download and install one of the two previous versions using the links below.
- Once you install and open that version, type set update channel to manual in the "Passage or topic" box, then press enter.
- Now, you can turn automatic updates back on. The software will not update, but your books and everything else will.
It might be OK in this instance, but it is usual to delete the \Logos folder after uninstalling at Step 2.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
It might be OK in this instance, but it is usual to delete the \Logos folder after uninstalling at Step 2.
Thanks, Dave. The support folks didn't mention that. I had to come up with this by trial and error after being told multiple times that it couldn't be done. And I realize now that it's probably not necessary to turn off automatic downloads. Once the update channel is set, it will stay until it is changed. So a better procedure might be:
- IN THE CURRENT VERSION, type set update channel to manual in the "Passage or topic" box, then press enter.
- Uninstall Logos (and possibly delete the \Logos folder).
- Download and install one of the two previous versions.
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Sean Hachem said:
So a better procedure might be:
- IN THE CURRENT VERSION, type set update channel to manual in the "Passage or topic" box, then press enter.
- Uninstall Logos (and possibly delete the \Logos folder).
- Download and install one of the two previous versions
You should remove "possibly". If you don't delete it you could get a nasty message and have to reinstall again. My caveat was that you got away with it this time..
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thank you Sean, Keep Smiling 4 Jesus and Logos Support! I can read the Bible again.
I am unfortunately such a Monk who desperately needs his Logos environment for Bible reading. I feel lost when I think about having to read the thick book on dead wood. Now everything is good again [:D]
---Notes:
a) Programm-Settings > Internet > Automatically Start Downloads: No – I think that's the only thing that keeps logos from updating without being asked, the console command didn't seem to do anything for me.
b) So that all the resources do not have to be downloaded again: Quickly log into the new installation and when it offers the download, cancel and close LOGOS = it has now created the folder "Data" in the new installation and in it another folder with cryptic name e.g. "bot5lvdf.4hu". In this folder with cryptic name there is a subfolder "ResourceManager" whose content can be completely replaced by the content of the previous installation. After that restart logos > log in, and now immediately follows after a few seconds indexing without previous download.
c) A new Logos version is always offered without reference to the content, unlike a book resource. So if it only says: An update is available = DO NOT download.
I hope I have not completely confused anyone now. But I just had a little screaming fit after downloading everything again for 3h and after 10 minutes Logos updated itself again to version 28. Maybe I can save someone this suffering 😊
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Pitrell said:
a) Programm-Settings > Internet > Automatically Start Downloads: No – I think that's the only thing that keeps logos from updating without being asked, the console command didn't seem to do anything for me.
b) So that all the resources do not have to be downloaded again: Quickly log into the new installation and when it offers the download, cancel and close LOGOS = it has now created the folder "Data" in the new installation and in it another folder with cryptic name e.g. "bot5lvdf.4hu". In this folder with cryptic name there is a subfolder "ResourceManager" whose content can be completely replaced by the content of the previous installation. After that restart logos > log in, and now immediately follows after a few seconds indexing without previous download.
c) A new Logos version is always offered without reference to the content, unlike a book resource. So if it only says: An update is available = DO NOT download.
Let me state that Sean's (modified ) method is the safest and most reliable.i.e.
- IN THE CURRENT VERSION, type set update channel to manual in the Command box, then press enter.
- Uninstall Logos and delete the \Logos folder.
- Download and install one of the two previous versions.
Pitrell's method carries the risk that some internal dataset versions could change between two versions of Logos and cause a crash! So you will have to reinstall again! It worked this time because there were no internal version changes.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I got my Logos back. But then it down loaded 28 again? I did everything. I have to download to get my library back, but how do I prevent 28 for downloading?
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Mike Skahan said:
I got my Logos back. But then it down loaded 28 again? I did everything. I have to download to get my library back, but how do I prevent 28 for downloading?
Let me quote myself:
"Programm-Settings > Internet > Automatically Start Downloads: No – I think that's the only thing that keeps logos from updating without being asked, the console command didn't seem to do anything for me."
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As I was experimenting yesterday trying to keep the current version from downloading (I'm still running 27.2.21 without any problems), I also may have activated a beta feature. Before I entered set update channel to manual, I entered set update channel to beta. It's possible that is why I'm no longer updating, although I would expect a beta version to be downloaded if I'm actually set to beta. I have not received any help from tech support on this other than to get the link to one previous build. I did 3 or 4 uninstall/reinstall cycles before getting it worked out. I thought the set update channel to manual would work for everyone.
So here is my procedure, which I believe includes some unnecessary steps.
- You will first need to turn off automatic downloads IN THE CURRENT VERSION.
- Also, type set update channel to beta in the "Passage or topic" box, then press enter.
- Then, type set update channel to manual in the "Passage or topic" box, then press enter.
- Then, uninstall Logos.
- Per Dave Hooten, delete the Logos folder ("C:\Users\[your username]\AppData\Local\Logos") I did not do this step.
- Download and install one of the two previous versions using the links below.
- Once you install and open that version, you can turn automatic updates back on. The software will not update, but your books and everything else will.
IMPORTANT NOTE: When you set the update channel, a search window will not open. The only indication I know of that something actually happened is that nothing appears to happen! If a search window opens, check your spelling and syntax.
Here is the link to version 27.3 (Note that link sets are broken in this version.) https://downloads.logoscdn.com/LBS10/Installer/27.3.0.0026/LogosSetup.exe
Here is the link to version 27.2 (I'm using this version.) https://downloads.logoscdn.com/LBS10/Installer/27.2.0.0021/LogosSetup.exe
After the Logos tech folks fix the issue. I think automatic software updates can be resumed by entering the command: set update channel to stable
Another Note: In the process of trying to nail down this procedure, I seem to have put myself on the beta channel. Now I am getting notifications of available updates. I am not going to install them. I am now keeping my automatic updates turned off, whereas they were on prior to this. This is a nuisance, but I don't feel like going through yet another uninstall/reinstall cycle.
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Hello, I too have experienced the slowdown issue with V 28. To answer your questions as best I can:
1. Windows 11
2. So far as I can tell the slowdown is related to typing, not just in notes or sermons but also in typing in search field (e.g., new search terms) or resource field (e.g., different text reference).
3. Generally always have Logos open until my computer restarts for an update. I manually restarted just Logos and typing is better, but for how long we'll see.
4. Right now, after the restart, CPU for Logos is very low, which is what would be expected. If the typing lag starts again, I'll update on CPU usage.
5. 5 panels. See attached.
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For what it's worth I feel like Logos has been getting progressively slower from v25 onward. v22-v24 were really fast for me. Seems to me like it's been slowing down since v25.
EDIT:
Windows 10
Intel Core i5-6200U
8GB RAM
250GB SDD
NVIDIA GeForce 940M
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Thank you, not sure what I did last time, but I did as you said, and I am good, I appreciate you responding. Blessings.
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I'm finding typing in a chapter / verse in any Bible translation or the passage in any commentary is slow and jumpy. It seems from my end, this problem began with the last update as others have no doubt pointed out.
MSI Pulse GL76-12UGK Intel Core i7-12700H, RTX3070, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Windows 11 Home
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Running win 10- home built - 1TB hd, w/ 2- 4TB mirrors - no performance loss.
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