Gold - Hang when changing to saved layout

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This post has 23 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 73
Paul Johnson | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Sep 19 2010 4:01 PM

This hasn't happened with earlier versions, but in Gold today, when trying to change to a saved layout, Logos 4 draws the window for the new layout and then hangs without filling in any resources. Force quit is required. When I restart, the layout that was active before I attempted the change is what is shown on the screen. This happens whether I try to choose the new layout from the Layout menu or from one of the layouts I have pinned to the shortcut bar.

Logs attached.

03878.Archive.zip

Posts 73
Paul Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 20 2010 10:46 PM

I read in another post that we're supposed to attach logs before re-starting Logos 4. The logs I attached previously were after a re-start, so here are logs done properly (i.e., before restarting).

BTW, one doesn't realize how important layouts are to efficient use of this program until one can't use them! I really hope the fix for this is pushed out quickly. At least I can fall back on Windows, but I sure don't understand how the Mac version can be "Gold" with such a major bug in it.

Here are the proper logs:

1512.Archive.zip

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 20 2010 10:54 PM

During Beta, sign-in dialog modified to match PC - option to start Logos 4 with blank layout.

Sign In tip: launch Logos 4, then quickly press and hold command key until Sign In appears – can click “Use blank layout”, then Sign in

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 73
Paul Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 21 2010 8:43 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Sign In tip: launch Logos 4, then quickly press and hold command key until Sign In appears – can click “Use blank layout”, then Sign in

 

Thanks! I hadn't thought to try that. Launching with a blank layout and then changing to a saved layout worked---for about three to four different layout changes in a row. Then it hung again. (Sorry, didn't think to save the logs...duh!) After the hang, I restarted with a blank layout and then immediately tried to change to the saved layout that had "caused" the previous hang. The layout loaded successfully. That seems to indicate to me (a non-programmer) that the problem is not in the layout itself (i.e., in the number and kind of resources saved in the layout), but rather in Logos 4's processing of the layout changes. BTW, this is a Mac only problem. I use the same layouts in the Windows version and have never had a problem switching between the layouts.

Regards,

Paul

Posts 3189
LogosEmployee
Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 21 2010 8:48 AM

Paul:

About how long do you wait before force quitting the program when switching layouts causes it to hang? What are the layouts comprised of? A screenshot may be sufficient though if it is an extensive layout a list may be required. is the Passage Guide or Exegetical guide a part of the layout?  

 

Posts 1246
David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 21 2010 8:54 AM

Would you mind uploading your layouts.db?

Also, how long did you wait before you decided to force quit?

Paul Johnson:
I sure don't understand how the Mac version can be "Gold" with such a major bug in it.

There are two major reasons:

  1. Your experience is not typical—most users are able to change layouts without issues.
  2. The decision to send the disc to the replicator was made before this bug was discovered—it's difficult to make decisions based on knowledge we don't have.

David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife

Posts 73
Paul Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 21 2010 9:24 AM

Tommy Ball:
About how long do you wait before force quitting the program when switching layouts causes it to hang? What are the layouts comprised of? A screenshot may be sufficient though if it is an extensive layout a list may be required. is the Passage Guide or Exegetical guide a part of the layout?

Hi Tommy,

The length of time I wait varies. Initially, I waited several minutes before force quitting. With the recent hangs I haven't waited that long. I've got seven different saved layouts. They vary in complexity, but I'd say all of them have a lot of resources open. The Passage Guide and  the Exegetical Guide are part of most, if not all, of the layouts. A couple of observations:

1. It is not the same layout(s) that causes the hang.

2. When I first posted this problem, ANY attempt to change to a saved layout caused a hang. After I opened with a blank layout, the first couple of switches work. (Pause while I try to re-create the problem.) Okay. On the fourth switch the hang occurred. So far I've waited five minutes, and it is still hung. I'm going to force quit and attach the logs.

7862846.Archive.zip

Regards,

Paul

Posts 73
Paul Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 21 2010 9:34 AM

David Mitchell:

Would you mind uploading your layouts.db?

 

Hmmmm. I tried attaching the file, but I get an error message. Is there a size limit for attachments? I zipped the layouts.db and it is 7.9 MB.

David Mitchell:

Also, how long did you wait before you decided to force quit?

Last time I waited five minutes.

David Mitchell:

Paul Johnson:
I sure don't understand how the Mac version can be "Gold" with such a major bug in it.

There are two major reasons:

  1. Your experience is not typical—most users are able to change layouts without issues.
  2. The decision to send the disc to the replicator was made before this bug was discovered—it's difficult to make decisions based on knowledge we don't have.

Sorry, I know you're doing the best you can with the information you currently have available........ I guess the other thing about this one that is surprising to me is that I didn't have this problem with the previous betas.

Let me know if there is another way I can get the layouts.db to you.

Regards,

Paul

Posts 3189
LogosEmployee
Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 21 2010 9:42 AM

Paul:

Try compressing the file and see if that will work. Right-click the file and select Compress. That should shrink the size enough to post them. 

 

Posts 73
Paul Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 21 2010 9:49 AM

Tommy Ball:

Try compressing the file and see if that will work. Right-click the file and select Compress. That should shrink the size enough to post them. 

Hi Tommy,

It was a compressed file that I was trying to upload. The compressed size is 7.9 MB. The uncompressed size is 12 MB.

The error message that I get from the uploader is:

Sorry, there was a problem with your last request!

Either the site is offline or an unhandled error occurred. We apologize and have logged the error. Please try your request again or if you know who your site administrator is let them know too.

 

Posts 73
Paul Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 21 2010 9:57 AM

I tried a different compressor and got the file size down to 6.8 MB, but that still won't upload. Any suggestions?

Posts 3189
LogosEmployee
Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 21 2010 1:02 PM

Paul I'm emailing you via the email name you use to log into the site. Respond to me w/ the file. Perhaps that will work.

 

Posts 1246
David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 21 2010 3:17 PM

I tried out each of the named layouts in the file you e-mailed to me, and I was able to open all of them if I started with a fresh instance of the app—my patience was also exhausted while trying to switch between most of them while the app was still open.

It's possible that there may be a couple issues when switching between layouts that have a different number of floating windows (this deserves a bit more investigation on our part), but I think the larger issue is that many of your layouts are simply too taxing for your system: your simplest layout has 35 panels, and a few have 50 or more. We may eventually be able to handle this sort of thing with ease, but for now, you may want to consider simplifying your layouts.

David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 21 2010 3:49 PM

David Mitchell:
but I think the larger issue is that many of your layouts are simply too taxing for your system: your simplest layout has 35 panels, and a few have 50 or more. We may eventually be able to handle this sort of thing with ease, but for now, you may want to consider simplifying your layouts.
If I may jump in here Paul.  Logos 4 offers some good tools of creating Parallel resources that may help simplify things.  For example, in my sermon preparation layouts (Day 1), I simplify my bibles down to 3 (Study, Devotional, and Paraphrased types of Bibles)  This way I am focused on only the resources I need.  I have other panes open (about 10 total), but not opening Bibles and things I don't need right away at the start of my study and allowing Logos 4 to give me quick access helps.  

I am still planning out my own set of videos to illustrate some of this, but in the meantime there are some other videos on this on the user created Wiki site.

Hope that is of some help.

Blessings 

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 73
Paul Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 21 2010 9:15 PM

David Mitchell:

...but for now, you may want to consider simplifying your layouts.

Hi Dave,

You sound like my wife trying to get me to clean up the clutter of books, etc. on my desk! Big Smile

Seriously though, thanks for looking at it.

One disappointing observation for me in this is that when I work with these exact same monster layouts in Windows XP running in VMWare Fusion on the exact same iMac on which I am trying to run Logos 4 Mac, the program has never yet choked. Layouts do take a while to load, but not as long as with the Mac version and never yet have I had to Ctrl-Alt-Del to terminate a hung Logos 4 Windows. Not being a programmer, I don't understand the platform differences, but I would have thought that a native version of the program should run better than a version run on an emulator. As you said, "We may eventually be able to handle this sort of thing with ease...."

BTW, if you ever need someone to really give your layout code a workout, you know where to find me! Wink

Thanks again, Dave, for taking the time to look at this.

Regards,

Paul

Posts 73
Paul Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 21 2010 9:22 PM

Joe Miller:
For example, in my sermon preparation layouts (Day 1), I simplify my bibles down to 3 (Study, Devotional, and Paraphrased types of Bibles)  This way I am focused on only the resources I need.  I have other panes open (about 10 total), but not opening Bibles and things I don't need right away at the start of my study and allowing Logos 4 to give me quick access helps.

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the comments. I have trouble putting paper books back on the shelf after I use them, too! Stick out tongue I guess the main thing is I was concerned that this was some nasty bug. From what Dave says, it's not really in the "bug" category. If things gets too unbearable I can skinny down my layouts or just keep using the Windows version on VMWare Fusion. (Thankfully, Logos licensing lets us do that!)

Regards,

Paul

Posts 1246
David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 22 2010 8:46 AM

I don't want to get anyone's hopes up too early, but just this morning, Martin and I were discussing a few ideas that just might allow us to leapfrog the performance of the Windows version in certain areas, such as this one. I don't know when we'll have a chance to implement them, or if they'll actually give us the gains we're hoping for, but I do want everyone to know that we're putting serious thought into these issues.

David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife

Posts 1246
David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 8:52 AM

Paul Johnson:
when trying to change to a saved layout, Logos 4 draws the window for the new layout and then hangs without filling in any resources.

Upon further investigation, I found an issue that can lead to deadlock on some machines when performing large operations such as switching between complex layouts before all the work in the first layout had completed. It will be fixed in the first service release.

David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife

Posts 73
Paul Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 10:39 PM

David Mitchell:
Upon further investigation, I found an issue that can lead to deadlock on some machines when performing large operations such as switching between complex layouts before all the work in the first layout had completed. It will be fixed in the first service release.

That's good news! Thanks, David! I look forward to getting the service release.

Posts 21
Paul O'Rear | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 3 2010 9:00 PM

I  am having a similar layout related freeze. It started happening about a week before the official release so presumably in the Gold bits. Since then I uninstalled Logos 4 completely and intentionally installed the release version as of 10/1. Loading the layout still causes a freeze. Layout works fine in PC version and the layout was working fine earlier in Sept. Perhaps this is a regression?

My layout also has many resources open (maybe 30 resources), but not floating panels, just regular panes. My machine has 8GB memory - I would think that should be plenty. My PC only has 2GB and is working fine with this layout. 

The layout appears to open correctly, but then hangs after the little stars flash in the visible resources.

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