Using Logos 4 Syntax search to function like Logos 3 Graphical Query

What I want to be able to reproduce is this type of search in a Logos
4 syntax search in the Greek New Testament (whichever tagging system is most suitable).

How could I do this in Logos 4?

This search illustrates 3 skills that I am trying to master in
Logos 4 syntax searches: (1) how to specify a maximum number of words
between search terms; (2) how to say that a certain type of word cannot
appear between search terms; (3) how to require that the term that
cannot be there must agree morphologically with certain search terms. This search illustrates all 3 and is strictly based on morphological criteria, not syntactical or functional classifications.

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Comments

Dave Hooton

1) how to specify a maximum number of words
between search terms;

This cannot be done in Syntax Search, where limits are defined by a construct like a Clause or a Phrase and there are NO artificial boundaries like verses or chapters!

(2) how to say that a certain type of word cannot
appear between search terms.

This is possible

(3) how to require that the term that
cannot be there must agree morphologically with certain search terms.

This is confusing, but let's discuss it with the Graphical Query:-

The exclusion Filter states that you do not want any Article to appear between the Verbs. The Agreement states all terms must have the same number. The search Results, however, do not exclude articles eg.

Matt 1:23 - 2 singular articles appear between the singular verbs
Matt 3:16 - 1 plural + 2 singular articles appear between the singular verbs

Please state what you are trying to accomplish and we might be able to define a (straightforward) Syntax query for you.

Harry Hahne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/177957#Comment_177957

1) how to specify a maximum number of words
between search terms;

This cannot be done in Syntax Search, where limits are defined by a construct like a Clause or a Phrase and there are NO artificial boundaries like verses or chapters!

It is hugely disappointing that I cannot specify a maximum number of words between search terms in Syntax searches. I had thought that is what Anything with Repeats 0-x times would do. Sometimes I think I have it working with this and sometimes not.

I want to be able to search with limits by Clause. That is perfect. But if I cannot specify that a certain number of words appear between 2 words in the surface text, that is a big limitation on numerous searches.

(2) how to say that a certain type of word
cannot
appear between search terms.

This is possible

How?I have tried the Is Not Present and Match Anything But This, but in both cases I get unpredictable results.

Can the syntax search (on any of the Syntax tagged Greek New Testament texts) search for a simple sequence of words as they appear in the surface text of the Greek New Testament? This is what I want. I want clause or sentence boundaries (not verse), the ability to specify agreement, distance between search terms, and exclusion of words based on specific morphological forms and agreement with search terms.

(3) how to require that the term that
cannot be there must agree morphologically with certain search
terms.

This is confusing, but let's discuss it with the Graphical Query:-

The exclusion Filter states that you do not want any Article
to appear between the Verbs. The Agreement states all terms must
have the same number. The search Results, however, do not exclude
articles eg.

Matt 1:23 - 2
singular articles appear between the singular verbs

Matt 3:16 - 1 plural
+ 2 singular articles appear between the singular verbs

Please state what you are trying to accomplish and we might be
able to define a (straightforward) Syntax query for you.

I can see that the Logos 3 Graphical Query does not do exactly what I wanted either, but it works better than the Syntax search. I am not sure why it picked up Matt 1:23, which has an article agreeing with the participle 2 words earlier. This is an old Graphical Query that I had and I don't know whether I finished perfecting it or not. I used it for demonstration purposes of the type of search I need to do from time to time.

This search was for imperative verbs with a participle in the same sentence. I don't want the participle to have an article that agrees with it, because I want adverbial participles, not substantival or adjectival participles. So the ability to exclude a word that agrees with search terms is critical. I think at the time I wanted to see how often the participle picks up the imperative flavor of the imperative (main) verb. I never did master the Logos 3 Graphical search, but I have had more success than I have with Logos 4 Syntax searches.

I suspect I could study the tagging methods of the syntax database to look for something like this.

The sad thing is that this type of complex morphological search was a piece of cake to set up 25 years ago with Gramcord. I am currently running a virtual machine with Windows XP on my 64 bit Windows 7 laptop, primarily so I can run the old Windows 3.1 version of Gramcord for this type of search. I just wish I could do these morphological searches in Logos.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/178087#Comment_178087

I can see that the Logos 3 Graphical Query does not do exactly what I wanted either, but it works better than the Syntax search.

I think we can improve both, but let's start with the OpenText Syntax query as that has a structure that is well defined/predictable.

Only one verb can appear within a Clause Component and verbs may be separated by other Clause Components. Put these within the confines of a sentence or Clause and we get this query:-

This shows the verbs both with and without an intervening Specifier (articles and/or prepositions). I used May or may not appear for the Specifier but Repeats 0 to 1 gave
the same results. The structure ensures that the specifier applies to the participle.

Now let's experiment with an article that does not agree with the participle:-

This gave a zero result!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/178109#Comment_178109

Now let's experiment with an article that does not agree with the participle:-

We can even simplify the above and get the same result:

The key element is the Specifier, which has to precede the participle (nothing in between). It can be one or two words but we are concerned only with the article.

Now we see that "Is not present" was wrong thinking, because the article was required as long as it disagreed in some way with another word. If we want it to be optional then state that it May or may not appear!

Hopefully you can now produce a Syntax search for the query in your other thread.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/178087#Comment_178087

It is hugely disappointing that I cannot specify a maximum number of words between search terms in Syntax searches. I had thought that is what Anything with Repeats 0-x times would do. Sometimes I think I have it working with this and sometimes not.

I just looked at results of my last syntax query modified to look for matching articles (same number) and it appears that Anything functions the way you describe, contrary to the last time I used it. But I'm posting a bug report in the PC Beta Forum!