Announcement: Resource Type Change--Dictionary, Encyclopedia, Lexicon

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 5 2010 2:32 PM

Louis St. Hilaire:

Today, Logos will be introducing two new resource types in Logos 4 to better handle different kinds of "dictionary"-like resources.

Resources in your library that currently have the type "Dictionary" will be automatically re-categorized via the metadata service into three more specific types:

We expect to complete the changes this morning. If you're using Logos "online", you should see the results immediately.

Thanks for the work and thought put into this..

 

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 5 2010 2:41 PM

terrific!  Thank you, Louis and team!

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Jeremy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 5 2010 3:09 PM

All these changes occurred without any updates or resource updates?

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 5 2010 3:17 PM

Jeremy:

All these changes occurred without any updates or resource updates?

Logos 4 is database driven, so metadata can be stored separate to the content (i.e. resource files) and updates to metadata pushed out seamlessly.

Posts 656
Jeremy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 5 2010 3:32 PM

For some reason when I do an exegetical study, some words populate with the full set of parallel resources, but others don't.

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Charlene | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 5 2010 6:07 PM

Super! Thanks, Logos!

Charlene

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 12:20 AM

Louis St. Hilaire:
The Dictionary of Quotations is a bit of an oddball, as Mark noted. I suppose it could go in Encyclopedia--using that category as a catch-all--but I think it really would belong better classified with things like topically arranged collections of illustrations.

Agree. A Dictionary has a definition which Quotations are definitely not. At the moment all my books about Illustrations and Quotations are type:monograph. An Illustrated history of the holy bible (GS_kittohistory) is a monograph when its cousin An Illustrated history of the holy bible (ILLHISTBBL) is type:Media Collection - both apparently compiled by J Kitto. With similar descriptions and different contents it would help if these books were rationalised!

Dave
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Mike S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 12:57 AM

Louis St. Hilaire:
Today, Logos will be introducing two new resource types in Logos 4 to better handle different kinds of "dictionary"-like resources.

...
We expect to complete the changes this morning. If you're using Logos "online", you should see the results immediately.

Update appears to already be in Mac SR version.

Posts 44
William Norman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 3:13 AM

Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia is listed as a monograph. It probably needs to be listed as an encyclopedia.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 9:59 AM

Louis St. Hilaire:

Dictionary
Modern language dictionary. These resources typically have short definitions for the individual headwords, and the headwords cover a large percentage of the unique words in the language.
Examples: Merriam-Webster's, Collins Concise Dictionary

Lexicon
Ancient language dictionary. These resources may have short definitions or long sections on the etymology or usage of each word. The headwords are in an ancient language and typically cover a large percentage of the unique words in that language.
Examples: BDAG, HALOT
(Note also: Subject fields for lexicons have been reviewed to make sure they specify the language(s) covered and the language the resource is in. E.g. "Hebrew language--Dictionaries--English".)

Encyclopedia
Encyclopedic dictionary. These resources typically have long articles, and may only have a few hundred or thousand headwords. There is often a high degree of overlap with Bible Knowledgebase/Logos Controlled Vocabulary concepts (though not always, e.g., Dictionary of Christianity in America).
Examples: Harper's Bible Dictionary, Anchor Bible Dictionary, Dictionary of Christianity in America

 

For the sake of clarity and completeness, maybe you could also provide your/Logos' definition of 'Thesaurus'? It seems to be a similar category that should also be taken into account when classifying.

 

Also some stufff I noted while making my collections last week (a few others seem to have disappeared since then, so you're obviously working on it):

  • Building your New Testament Greek Vocabulary is listed as a lexicon, but Building Your Biblical Hebrew Vocabulary as a monograph.
  • Introduction to Aramaic is listed as a grammar, Introduction to Ecclesiastical Latin as a Monograph.
  • One of Nunn's Greek books is listed as a grammar, two as monographs, and there were plenty of other grammatical works among the monographs as well. Now, I haven't looked at all (or any, really…) of these books in detail, so I can't say exactly what they are, but if they don't qualify as grammars, it would be helpful to have another category with 'gramma-something' in the title. I at least like to have all such resources in one collection, and writing long strings of text with 'synta morph analy diagram clause' to catch them all is unnecessarily complicated…
  • I would also appreciate if dictionaries, lexicons, grammars, and the like, were listed as lang:greek/hebrew/etc, and not just English. Title:greek will never find a Greek/Swedish lexicon, if there ever is one; lang:greek would. And it catches stuff like the TDNT, which doesn't have the word 'Greek' in the title. 
  • Torrey is listed as both 'R.A.', and 'R. A.'  Tischendorf is listed as both 'Constantin von' and 'Constantinus'. And, unless you've already fixed it, some guy I can't now remember is listed as both 'F.A' and 'F.A.'.
  • Browne, author of The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, seems to have no first name.
  • And if Good Things Come in Small Groups is indeed written in Afrikaans, my Afrikaans must be a great deal better than I thought it was…Smile

 

 

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 10:29 AM

As this thread is likely to soon get buried again, I'd encourage everyone from here on out to get back to the standard place for reporting metadata problems: http://wiki.logos.com/Metadata_correction_proposals (it's the top link under Bugs on the right sidebar of the wiki front page).

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Louis St. Hilaire | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 11:58 AM

Dave, William, fgh:

We'll have to look closer at all of these, but my initial guess is that some (or all) of the cases you mention are simply mis-classified.

fgh:

  • I would also appreciate if dictionaries, lexicons, grammars, and the like, were listed as lang:greek/hebrew/etc, and not just English. Title:greek will never find a Greek/Swedish lexicon, if there ever is one; lang:greek would. And it catches stuff like the TDNT, which doesn't have the word 'Greek' in the title. 
  • Torrey is listed as both 'R.A.', and 'R. A.'  Tischendorf is listed as both 'Constantin von' and 'Constantinus'. And, unless you've already fixed it, some guy I can't now remember is listed as both 'F.A' and 'F.A.'.
  • Browne, author of The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, seems to have no first name.
  •  

    We use the Language field for the language the resource is in rather than the language the resource covers. You should be able to find all Greek lexicons with "type:lexicon subject:Greek language". We made sure that all Lexicons have an appropriate subject of this form, but I'll put a review of the subjects for Grammars on our to do list.

    We also already have some standardization and clean up in the works for Author and Publisher fields, but, as Rosie mentions, the best thing is to make sure these get posted on http://wiki.logos.com/Metadata_correction_proposals.

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    DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 12:06 PM

    Louis St. Hilaire:
    You should be able to find all Greek lexicons with "type:lexicon subject:Greek language". We made sure that all Lexicons have an appropriate subject of this form, but I'll put a review of the subjects for Grammars on our to do list.

    Thanks for doing this and it would be great to see it done for grammars. I too found the Language field a little unhelpful, thanks for explaining why it is, the way it is, rather than what I would have expected.

     

    Posts 397
    T Gerold Castle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 1:31 PM

    Are these changes for Mac too? I haven't noticed a difference in my library.

    In HIS Eternal Service,
    Tom Castle
    **If we will do God's work, in God's way, at God's time, with God's power, we shall have God's blessings!!**

    Anonymous | | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 2:45 PM

    Exhaustive Dictionary of Biblical Names doesn't cover a significant portion of a language's vocabulary, so Encylopedia seems more appropriate, even though the entries are short.

    Topically organized works like Dictionaries of Quotations, or Topical Bibles are definately more Encylopedia than Dictionary/Lexicon as those terms were defined above, but aren't really what we think of when we think of Encylopedia, as each entry is actually an anthology rather than an original essay on the headword.  But is it really worth splitting distinctions to create a separate category for them?

    I would be inclined to lump them under Encylopedia.  I definately don't think Monograph is appropriate.  I'd rather go ahead and have a "Topical Anthology" category instead of that.

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    MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 4:46 PM

    Jeffrey Glen Jackson:
    Exhaustive Dictionary of Biblical Names doesn't cover a significant portion of a language's vocabulary, so Encylopedia seems more appropriate, even though the entries are short.

    I would put these as dictionaries although I see your point ... but I do distinguish between language dictionaries and Bible dictionaries.

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    Anonymous | | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 12:05 PM

    I think M.J.'s comment demonstrates why the Logos defined categories have never been particularly useful.    What makes sense for one person, doesn't for another (not to mention the feelings of those of us who consider classifying the Book of Enoch as Bible to be down right dangerous and heretical).  And if the (lack of) logic of the categories isn't maddening enough, the fact that they are always changing doesn't help. 

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    MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 5:16 PM

    Jeffrey Glen Jackson:
    us who consider classifying the Book of Enoch as Bible to be down right dangerous and heretical)

    or respectful Wink

    But I agree that users do have different opinions. From my perspective when we get beyond the Bible where I consider respect and verse reference/mapping to be paramount, the main thing I want is consistency.

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    Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 8:35 PM

    Jeffrey Glen Jackson:
    And if the (lack of) logic of the categories isn't maddening enough, the fact that they are always changing doesn't help. 

    Agreed. I still haven't gotten through reviewing all my collection definitions to see which ones of them I should change to include Encyclopedia as a type, or whatever. I think this is one of the reasons why they are loathe to make metadata changes involving Type very often (apart from the fact that it also involves changes in the code usually). But I hope they've finally figured everything out once and for all.

    Posts 109
    Jarred Edgecombe | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 7:32 AM

    Mark A. Smith:
    my Greek lexicons virtually popped up

    Hey Mark I like the play on words.

    Jarred

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