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Matt Wolf | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jul 9 2009 12:23 PM

Hi, I'm trying to figure out how to use the features in the SESB BHS Search. Specifically, I would like to search for verses that use the verb shalakh (to send) with yad (hand) as an object (with or without the direct object marker). It looks like this should be possible, given the options on the left-hand side (Add: Word, Phrase, Clause). I can't figure out how to translate my query into a form the Search window understands. Everything I try comes up with 0 results. E.g., the following doesn't work:

Phrase

-> Word: {1} shlkh

-> Word: {1} yd

I'd settle for being able to search for any verse that contained the two words--that would be easier than searching for every instance of shalakh and wading through them all to find the ones with yad. Is there a tutorial for this? (While we're at it, I've never been able to figure out the Syntax Search either, or find any resources to figure it out.)

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 9 2009 12:48 PM

MattWolf:

Hi, I'm trying to figure out how to use the features in the SESB BHS Search. Specifically, I would like to search for verses that use the verb shalakh (to send) with yad (hand) as an object (with or without the direct object marker). It looks like this should be possible, given the options on the left-hand side (Add: Word, Phrase, Clause). I can't figure out how to translate my query into a form the Search window understands. Everything I try comes up with 0 results. E.g., the following doesn't work:

Phrase

-> Word: {1} shlkh

-> Word: {1} yd

I'd settle for being able to search for any verse that contained the two words--that would be easier than searching for every instance of shalakh and wading through them all to find the ones with yad. Is there a tutorial for this? (While we're at it, I've never been able to figure out the Syntax Search either, or find any resources to figure it out.)

Not using SESB since I don't have it I found 49 verses where the combination of שׁלח no more than 2 words before יָד.  The search string for this in the Hebrew morphology is [שׁלח=v??????+S???E?J?C?V?] before 2 words [יָד=nc???+S???E?].  If you were to expand the separation of the words somewhat or to allow יָד to precede שׁלח, the results might be slightly different.  Here is the verse list:

Genesis 3:22; 8:9; 22:12
Exodus 3:20; 4:4, 13; 6:1; 9:15; 22:7, 10; 24:11
Leviticus 16:21
Deuteronomy 25:11
Judges 15:15
1 Samuel 16:20; 22:17; 24:7; 24:11; 26:9, 11, 23
2 Samuel 1:14; 11:14; 12:25; 15:5, 36; 18:12; 24:16
2 Kings 6:7
1 Chronicles 13:10
Esther 2:21; 3:6; 6:2; 8:7; 9:2, 10, 15, 16
Job 1:11, 12; 2:5; 8:4; 28:9; 30:24
Psalm 55:21; 138:7; 144:7
Song of Solomon 5:4
Daniel 11:42

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 27452
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 9 2009 5:42 PM

MattWolf:
I've never been able to figure out the Syntax Search either, or find any resources to figure it out.

Syntax Search can be quite esoteric especialy for Hebrew. The Andersen-Forbes database is used for this, not BHS, and it permits selection of homographs for specific meanings. So enter the lexeme and select from a list of homographs. I chose "put out/lay hand":

Phrase 1
 Segment 1: ((Lexeme = "שׁלח" AND Homograph = #1 (AF)))
 Segment 2: ((Lexeme = "יד" AND Homograph = #1 (AF)))

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

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Matt Wolf | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 3:01 PM

Thanks George and Dave for replying. I appreciate the guidance. I have a couple follow-up questions:

George, I wasn't able to replicate your results by copy-paste (don't know why) but you have enlightened me to the possibilities of this "before X words" syntax. I've played around with it and think it will give me what I need for this issue. Thanks so much. Where can I find documentation for the syntax of these search strings? I never would have known that the Morphological search syntax could handle the expression "before X words".

Dave, thanks for clueing me in to the Syntax Search syntax. It's funny, though--when I run the search, it only comes up with a subset of the verses found with the Hebrew Morphological search method. The Syntax Search query you provided finds lishloakh yadi bo (לִשְׁלֹחַ יָדִי בּוֹ "to put out my hand against him") in 1 Sam 24:7, but misses all the examples of yishlakh/shalakh yado (יִשְׁלַח יָדוֹ "put out his hand")--in, e.g., Gen 3:22; 8:9; Exod 4:4; 22:7, 10, 24:11. Do you have any idea why the Syntax Search misses those?

Just trying to learn how to fish :-)

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 4:13 PM

MattWolf:

George, I wasn't able to replicate your results by copy-paste (don't know why) but you have enlightened me to the possibilities of this "before X words" syntax. I've played around with it and think it will give me what I need for this issue. Thanks so much. Where can I find documentation for the syntax of these search strings? I never would have known that the Morphological search syntax could handle the expression "before X words".

I'm not sure where I picked that up.  I suspect that I simply carried it over from other searches.  If you think something will help to find what you want, TRY IT -- the worst that can happen is that it won't work.  Since you didn't have the data before and still don't have it, you haven't lost anything.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 27452
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 8:44 PM

MattWolf:
Dave, thanks for clueing me in to the Syntax Search syntax. It's funny, though--when I run the search, it only comes up with a subset of the verses found with the Hebrew Morphological search method.

This where Syntax Search gets tricky:-

1. Analyse the structure in A-F Phrase Marker Analysis (AFPMA) and change the query accordingly i.e. so it matches the structure of the required verses.

2. Change the pattern of Hebrew words to match the required verses e.g. insert Anything to allow for intervening words, change the homograph number. This is an area where George can help far better than myself. I'm struggling to understand if the AFPMA text for Gen 3.22 matches the text of the A-F Analyzed Text (AFAT) as AFAT provides this verse as a result for his text query whilst AFPMA represents the database for the Syntax query.

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

Posts 1
Bertram Salzmann | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 22 2009 12:35 AM

MattWolf:

While we're at it, I've never been able to figure out the Syntax Search either, or find any resources to figure it out.

Documentation and help on the Syntax Search and especially the Syntax Search using the WIVU database in SESB is available from the following links:

http://www.sesb-online.de/en/video-tutorials/: Two video tutorials on the SESB Syntax Search in SESB 3.0

http://www.logos.com/training/videos: Syntax Demonstration Videos for Logos 3.0

The SESB 3.0 manual includes 20 pages instructions on how to use the Syntax Search in SESB 3.0

 

Posts 1
Matt Wolf | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 22 2009 2:40 PM

Thanks so much! I don't have the WIVU database, but I was able to replicate the results in the SESB tutorial on my Anderson-Forbes Phrase Marker Analysis. Very satisfying to see something besides 0 results!

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