JESUS IS GOD

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Posts 6
Walter Roski | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Apr 7 2011 8:15 AM

I CAN NOT GET THRUGTH MY WIFE THAT GOD  BECAME FLESH WISH IS CHRIST IN HUMAN FORM,WHAT CAN I DO TO SHOW HER THAT IN BIBLICAL VERSES,OR IN WHAT COMMENTARY I CAN FIND THAT

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 8:25 AM

Once again Walter, greetings!  :-)

Please do not type in all caps, on the internet that is considered SHOUTING.  And it's rude.

I would suggest you begin simultaneously in two areas.

The first being prayer that God will open both you and your wife's eyes to see his word with spiritual eyes - remember your wife is not an adversary but your partner in life, treat her gently and with understanding lest your prayers be rejected.

Your second course of action depends upon her willingness to participate in a study with you.  You may want to consult a few theology books, most (all?) systematic theologies will go into the study of the person and work of Jesus Christ, this is known as Christology.

There are, many portions of scripture which help to define this doctrine, recently I was greatly drawn in by a personal study of Isaiah 52:13-53:12 which is Isaiah's prophecy of the suffering servant some 700 years before Jesus was born.

Please let us know what library you have and we will attempt to direct you towards specific resources to help you in your study.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 24527
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 8:33 AM

Hi Walter

One approach would be to search for "Incarnation" in any Encyclopedia you might have.

I don't know what resources / package you have but when I did this I found a range of resources.

Easton's Bible Dictionary - which is common to all base packages apart from Original Languages - has

INCARNATION —  that act of grace whereby Christ took our human nature into union with his Divine Person, became man. Christ is both God and man. Human attributes and actions are predicated of him, and he of whom they are predicated is God. A Divine Person was united to a human nature (Acts 20:28; Rom. 8:32; 1 Cor. 2:8; Heb. 2:11–14; 1 Tim. 3:16; Gal. 4:4, etc.). The union is hypostatical, i.e., is personal; the two natures are not mixed or confounded, and it is perpetual. 

M.G. Easton, Easton's Bible Dictionary (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1996).

You might find some of those references useful.

Without knowing the questions your wife is asking - and forum guidelines require us to keep from discussing theological issues here - I don't know what else to advise.

Hope this helps

Graham

PS: Please avoid using All Capitals when posting in the forum.

Posts 205
Oldnewbie | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 8:39 AM

Walter,

Do you have Logos?  Try looking at the Gospel of John chapter 8, verses 56-59.  Compare this to John 10:30-33.  Check thecommentaries you have regarding what Jesus is saying in these 2 passages but the passages really seem to interpret themselves rather clearly.  Revelation 1:8-17 or so should also have some interesting information in any commentaries.  John MacArthur's commentary on John or his "MacArthur Bible Studies:John" book should work well also.  They are inexpensive and he is usually quite clear in his exposition.  

http://www.logos.com/product/2333/macarthur-bible-studies-john

http://www.logos.com/product/2958/john-1-11-the-macarthur-new-testament-commentary

Also, check your library for anything by Josh McDowell.  That would be a good place to start.  I do not believe this post voilates forum guidelines and offer my apologies ahead of time if it has.  I'll check back for any responses. 

Posts 1145
William | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 9:43 AM

How about Col. 2 9

 

Posts 45
Matt Longhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 10:26 AM

Walter, I would be willing to share a study that I did on that largely using Logos resources. Not sure if I am allowed or even can post it here, but would be willing to email it.

It is not finished but is sitting at about 60,000 words, 20,000 of which are on John 20:28 which has really helped in my discussions with those who disagree on this point. Depends if you want that kind of depth and can deal with my VERY note format style

Posts 45
Matt Longhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 10:28 AM

If you want a book that will go into great depth you cannot really get much better than Jesus is God by Robert Harris - not a Logos format book (it should be), but that would be a really good way to get thinking seriously about this issue. It will also be better than the doc I could send.

Posts 493
Michael Anda | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 10:58 AM

The Lord guided me to Acts 20 once as I prayed for a Scripture to give to a JW friend.  This verse receives treatment in the Murray Harris' Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus.


Acts 20:28 | NAS

“Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 

 

 

 

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 11:24 AM

Matt Longhorn:

Walter, I would be willing to share a study that I did on that largely using Logos resources. Not sure if I am allowed or even can post it here, but would be willing to email it.

It is not finished but is sitting at about 60,000 words, 20,000 of which are on John 20:28 which has really helped in my discussions with those who disagree on this point. Depends if you want that kind of depth and can deal with my VERY note format style

Logos has a Topics web site http://topics.logos.com/ that is useful for reading lists. Noticed Jesus Christ page could use key passages for deity (e.g. John 20:28)

Wiki has Case Study example using Logos 4 => Case Study: Day of the Lord in Isaiah (perhaps create another Wiki page with Case Study example; many forum users can assist with Wiki editing help).

Keep Smiling Smile

 

Posts 493
Michael Anda | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 12:33 PM

@ Matt Longhorn

I'd enjoy taking a look at your study if the offer is open to me.

 

 

 

Posts 45
Matt Longhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 12:39 PM

Michael - happy to share with anyone - it is amateur stuff as I have not been to university and I am not sure if i am allowed to post here. If you are interested then my e-mail address is longhornm at hotmail.co.uk 

Matt Longhorn

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 12:53 PM

Matt Longhorn:
e-mail address is
 You might want to edit that by clicking MORE → EDIT (But you only have a ten hour window in which this is possible.)  Spambots will harvest email addresses plainly written out like this and your spam will increase.  Something more like :  tcblack  with the website stilltruth.com will do nicely.  ;-)

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 45
Matt Longhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 1:00 PM

Thanks for the advice Thomas - novice at work! seeing as I made that email addy yesterday to get away from spam you have probably saved me from a second change in a short period of time.

 

Matt

Posts 2877
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 1:27 PM

I agree with the prayer suggestion.  Also, show her all of Christ's love that is humanly possible.

As far as scripture:

How about John 8:58  "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

or, Titus 2:13  "while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,"

or Hebrews 1:2-3  "but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word."

or John chapter 1  "the Word was God...the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."

Theologically, the Trinity is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.  There is certainly mystery in One God who is revealed in three persons.  So you may want to look up an article or two on the Trinity.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 680
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2011 10:33 PM

An excellent book on this topic is Putting Jesus in His Place, by Robert Bowman and Ed Komoszewski. In fact, it needs to be on Logos.

They teach the deity of Jesus using the HANDS acronym...

Jesus receives the HONORS due God

Jesus displays the ATTRIBUTES of God

Jesus is given the NAMES of God

Jesus performs the DEEDS of God

Jesus occupies the SEAT of God

Posts 36
Nathan Madison | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2011 1:22 AM

@ Matt Longhorn


I'd enjoy taking a look at your study also..

Nathan Madison

Posts 3669
Milkman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2011 7:22 AM

Good morning Walter!

You may also consider, if you have these resources, books that counter "cult" objections to the deity of Christ. Walter Martin's Kingdom of the Cults, any of David Reed's material in Logos format, or any of the apologetic works either in L4 or otherwise. These books focus specifically on these types of questions. Also you may find the many websites that are helpful in your quest.

You have many people praying for you and your wife.

mm.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2011 10:12 AM

Walter ... I kind of agree with your wife. Before people get too excited, I attend/prefer 'evangelical' churches, and most appreciate our pastor for his attention to the text. Just looking at the citings above in the greek, the concept is quite arguable, until the 'late' writings. When our pastor was in Col 2, he admitted the discussion of Jesus' divinity wasn't a 'straight-shot', suggesting the monotheism of the Jews was a major stumbling block ( http://www.bible-sermons.org/sermons.html ). That's why Milkman's suggestions on monotheism have a lot merit, as people become more enamored with internet theology.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2011 11:05 AM

We also have to remember that the doctrine (church teaching) of the Trinity is not found in scripture.  I believe that it is implied; it is just not stated.

Walter,

As any guy knows, you cannot change your wife, so please do not try.  That is God's job.  Like Paul said, some plant, some water, but God gives the growth.  (my paraphrase of 1 Corinthians 3:6)

Walter, I personally do not believe scripture or a commentary is the best source here.  The best source for your wife about our risen Lord and Savior is you and how you treat her.  By walking with her through the crap that life brings is the best source for her (and everyone else) to be able to understand the incarnation.  

Posts 825
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2011 11:52 AM

tom collinge:
I personally do not believe scripture or a commentary is the best source here.  The best source for your wife about our risen Lord and Savior is you and how you treat her.  By walking with her through the crap that life brings is the best source for her (and everyone else) to be able to understand the incarnation.

Scripture is my recommendation.  Sola scriptura.

JRS has left the building.

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