Am I the only one....

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Posts 218
John Nerdue | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:41 AM

Am I the only one who doesn’t like the new version of Logos? I don’t like the look or feel. I updated (I didn’t upgrade). I just wanted to see how the new version looked and felt before I upgraded.

To me the new version looks very cluttered and complicated. It looks like a yahoo web page or MSN FrontPage with all the news, sports, polls, and weather. That doesn’t appeal to me.

I like the way version 3 looks and feels. I like that it is clean and very easy to get started.

I would love to upgrade to Platinum or Portfolio from Gold 3 for all the resources but I don’t like the new version. One thing would make it hard for me not to upgrade and that is if there was a “Classic” view. Like in Windows you have the option to make it look like the older version of Windows. I would upgrade in a minute if that feature was available. So it would look and feel like version 3 but with all the new additions and resources.

I am not feeling well today and just woke up from a nap so this might not be very coherent. StormSleep

 

 

 

Posts 726
Chris Elford | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:45 AM

James Chaisson:

Am I the only one who doesn’t like the new version of Logos? I don’t like the look or feel. I updated (I didn’t upgrade). I just wanted to see how the new version looked and felt before I upgraded.

To me the new version looks very cluttered and complicated. It looks like a yahoo web page or MSN FrontPage with all the news, sports, polls, and weather. That doesn’t appeal to me.

I like the way version 3 looks and feels. I like that it is clean and very easy to get started.

I would love to upgrade to Platinum or Portfolio from Gold 3 for all the resources but I don’t like the new version. One thing would make it hard for me not to upgrade and that is if there was a “Classic” view. Like in Windows you have the option to make it look like the older version of Windows. I would upgrade in a minute if that feature was available. So it would look and feel like version 3 but with all the new additions and resources.

I am not feeling well today and just woke up from a nap so this might not be very coherent. StormSleep

 

 

First, I'd say let it grow on you. Many of the beta testers came to like the display of resources. Many commented that they started exploring their library and finding treasures they didn't know about because of it. Yes, it is an attempt to be more graphical and friendly to new users and non-hard-core types. Certainly it is a matter of personal taste. I didn't like the old view, FWIW.

Second, on the home page you have the option (bottom left corner) of selecting the info you want or of not having the home page open at startup. That way you have a very clean page. There is no classic view at this time.

Chris

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:45 AM

It grows on you.

My first reaction to the very busy home page was similar to yours.  Over time I've learned to work with it,and have found it to be excellent and a vast improvement.

One great feature I used during the beta was to click customize one the home page (bottom left) and uncheck "use home page"  Now it will simply open up to where you were last working!

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:48 AM

James Chaisson:

Am I the only one who doesn’t like the new version of Logos? I don’t like the look or feel. I updated (I didn’t upgrade). I just wanted to see how the new version looked and felt before I upgraded.

Many of us beta users felt the same way...initially. Now I wouldn't go back to L3 if you paid me. I prefer the interface far more.

James Chaisson:
To me the new version looks very cluttered and complicated. It looks like a yahoo web page or MSN FrontPage with all the news, sports, polls, and weather. That doesn’t appeal to me.

You can have it not start up on the homepage. You will go from a cluttered look to an empty look. However many who originally despised the homepage (myself included) have actually grown to like it.

James Chaisson:
One thing would make it hard for me not to upgrade and that is if there was a “Classic” view.

Not gonna happen. The versions are too fundamentally different.

 

 

Posts 97
Greg Gray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:52 AM

If you are referring to the home page - I agree.  Under "customize" (bottom left corner) uncheck show home page on startup.  

After using the program for several weeks I can say (for me) it is way more productive and less cluttered (with the exception of some of the tools that are really not refined yet like information tool when using reverse interlinears, library search results, etc.).

 

Try loosing the home page and working with it for a while - going back to V3 for me really does feel like "going back."

Posts 2816
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:53 AM

No you are definitely not the only one. As a beta tester I was one of the minority who was very unhappy with the new look.

1. It is very mac like and I'm a PC

2. It has very small controls and I have a high res monitor making it even worse

3. The home page is not at all a tool by tool replacement for the old home page.  It is more like the old home page without the most useful tools (the guides). 

That said, I have gotten used to it after about a month.  I don't mind the washed out look and that may change as the font color is possibly a technical problem that could be fixed.  I can't remember the issues but it was stated here by I think Bob.  Also, as Thomas said, you can turn off the home page. You will lose the ribbon at the top, which shows your reading lists and the lectionary, but you can get them by clicking home.

Finally, you can create a layout of what you want to use regularly and open it.  Before you jump ship, just use it for awhile. If after a few weeks you feel the same way, you have not lost anything because you didn't buy an upgrade.  There are some pretty cool features in the upgrade though.

Posts 5620
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:53 AM

Ehh.  The homepage.  I leave it off all the time, and check it from time to time.

Like Thomas said, once the homepage is off at startup then it automatically loads your previous window layout at startup.  So layout your resources and functional windows like you like, and then they'll come back to you every time.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 97
Greg Gray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:53 AM

Man you guys are fast!  (and much more informative than me - very impressive)

Posts 1525
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:55 AM

Yes, give it some more time.  You may not end up loving it but it does help you discover resources (and hopefully biblical insights) that you may not even know has been sitting in your library all this time.

As with the above posters, I was also a beta test convert. :)

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Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:58 AM

James Chaisson:
To me the new version looks very cluttered and complicated. It looks like a yahoo web page or MSN FrontPage with all the news, sports, polls, and weather. That doesn’t appeal to me.

James,

I imagine what you are seeing is the new 'on steroids' version of the home page. That's all that is cluttered and yahoo like to me. BTW, some people like it. I am among those who don't. You can turn it off so that Logos will open to the last working layout you had open.

Here's a screenshot of my seven pane general layout. I have a widescreen monitor and this might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I can get a lot on the screen and have many open resources without overly bogging down Logos.

I actually like the look and feel of 4.0 once you get past the home page better. Layouts are not as easy to set-up but I think the overall appearance is a little nicer. This is, like anything of the sort, a subjective opinion. Give it some time. Try setting up some new workspaces (now called layouts) that are similar to those you have in 3.0. Since you haven't cross-graded you can't give some of the new features a tryout, but being able to do that might do more to convince you.

I am actively keeping both 3.0 and 4.0 on my main computer. There are some things in 3.0 not yet in 4.0 that I need. You could do the same until you get the hang of 4.0.

Logos 3 was build on Internet Explorer. It no longer is, so I would think reproducing the look of it would be pretty hard and I'm sure not worth the effort in Logos' opinion.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1142
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:59 AM

James Chaisson:

Am I the only one who doesn’t like the new version of Logos? I don’t like the look or feel. I updated (I didn’t upgrade). I just wanted to see how the new version looked and felt before I upgraded.

To me the new version looks very cluttered and complicated. It looks like a yahoo web page or MSN FrontPage with all the news, sports, polls, and weather. That doesn’t appeal to me.

I like the way version 3 looks and feels. I like that it is clean and very easy to get started.

I would love to upgrade to Platinum or Portfolio from Gold 3 for all the resources but I don’t like the new version. One thing would make it hard for me not to upgrade and that is if there was a “Classic” view. Like in Windows you have the option to make it look like the older version of Windows. I would upgrade in a minute if that feature was available. So it would look and feel like version 3 but with all the new additions and resources.

I am not feeling well today and just woke up from a nap so this might not be very coherent. StormSleep

  

 

Hi James,

No, you are not alone.  I didn't like my first, second or third impression of L4.  And, yes, the home page is as you are describing it; I empathize.  It took me weeks of beta testing to get over my initial impressions.  I liked the classic look, too.  But, I had to realize that, in my case, I was not as open to change as most of the other beta testers.  I listened to Logos personnel-to Bob, to Bradley, to George, to Melissa; their explanations of new features, of indexing, of resource management eventually won me over.  L4 is huge change from L3 and it took me time and exposure and openness to one day realize that I needed to look at the whole system and discover it was much better for the user.  Easier, faster.  I had an "aha" moment while I was cooking Yes and as I began to use the program, I began to see it was beautiful, brilliantly designed and something I began to like.

You do have an advantage over me.  You have all the videos to view freely; they give you a real feel for the whole progam.  I still have L3 on my computer and will run it alongside L4.  Even many of the new resources coming out will work on L3 for some time (apart from some with illustrations that won't).  I am sharing with you my story and hope you don't feel like I am trying to sell you.  I learn more every day and it does get easier but I admit there was a huge learning curve for me.  God Bless.

Posts 218
John Nerdue | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 11:04 AM

Extremely fast responses WOW! Thanks for the thoughts and insights. I will give it a few weeks and see if I come around. If not then like someone else said "I've lost nothing".

 

 

Posts 5573
Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 11:05 AM

James Chaisson:
Am I the only one who doesn’t like the new version of Logos? I don’t like the look or feel. I updated (I didn’t upgrade). I just wanted to see how the new version looked and felt before I upgraded.

In addition to what others have said about turning off the home page (I never used one in L3 either), let me add another perspective.

First, the ones who had the most trouble adjusting to L4 where those who had spent the most time working with L3. L3 power users were the hardest on L4 initially. But over the course of a few weeks, gradually that changed. I don't know any of the beta testers that still prefers L3 over L4. I suspect that if you spent a lot of time in L3, even if you dont' consider yourself a 'power-user,' the intitial experience can be a bit of a shock. We understand that. Believe me. But hang in there a while and you'll begin to see why most of us fell in love with it.

Logos4 begins to shine as you  use it. Behind the unusual interface, is a robust system that just works. I have found myself digging deeper faster in L4 than in L3. I'm not even sure I can tell you why. But I can assure you that (except for that home page - designed for newbies, IMHO), Logos4 is a significant improvement over L3 in almost every way.

And even the look and feel, as different as it is at first, begins to grow on you. L3 looks and feels so clunky to me now, when I open it. Since the engine is free, just use it for a while and give it a chance to show you that it's beauty is more than skin deep.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 11:13 AM

Philip Spitzer:

James Chaisson:

Am I the only one who doesn’t like the new version of Logos? I don’t like the look or feel. I updated (I didn’t upgrade). I just wanted to see how the new version looked and felt before I upgraded.

Many of us beta users felt the same way...initially. Now I wouldn't go back to L3 if you paid me. I prefer the interface far more.

James Chaisson:
To me the new version looks very cluttered and complicated. It looks like a yahoo web page or MSN FrontPage with all the news, sports, polls, and weather. That doesn’t appeal to me.

You can have it not start up on the homepage. You will go from a cluttered look to an empty look. However many who originally despised the homepage (myself included) have actually grown to like it.

James Chaisson:
One thing would make it hard for me not to upgrade and that is if there was a “Classic” view.

Not gonna happen. The versions are too fundamentally different.

 

It has been the same with me. First I had a problem to get used to Home Page. Now I just look at it first if I have time. If not, I just go to my Layout and work. The interface of Logos 4 i SO MUCH better than v3. IMHO there is no question about that. Yes, there are few things where I need to adjust. But most of the things which looked complicated to me or some other people, just needed to be understood. Like collections. Typical example. Totally different level of approach.

Simply, James, I think you need just to play some more with the program and you will find many subtle details you will like.

Bohuslav

Posts 216
LogosEmployee

Kevin A. Purcell:
2. It has very small controls and I have a high res monitor making it even worse

Have you tried adjusting the program scaling (in Tools > Program Settings)? Even just bumping it to 110% should make a noticeable difference.

Posts 2816
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 11:17 AM

Jacob Carpenter:

Kevin A. Purcell:
2. It has very small controls and I have a high res monitor making it even worse

Have you tried adjusting the program scaling (in Tools > Program Settings)? Even just bumping it to 110% should make a noticeable difference.

That would be a great option if it only adjusted the controls and not the lettering.  Again, I'm getting used to it, but the worst part is the tiny little fading scroll bars. That is the most annoying thing and very anti-PC.

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 11:26 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
Simply, James, I think you need just to play some more with the program and you will find many subtle details you will like.

That is the beauty of Logos 4. We get to decide what home page to use, or use none at all. It is about empowering the user. One of MJ Smith's first comments was "it looks like a programmer's interface." 

I like it because it is graphical and customizable. (Nice tabs & stuff like Firefox, clean lines like a Mac)

Any time we experience change we will have some discomfort. But there are enough user  addressable options to make you happy if you will explore.

Of course I don't have it indexed and running yet. This is just my take on the front end.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 12:04 PM

Matthew C Jones:
One of MJ Smith's first comments was "it looks like a programmer's interface." 

Don't forget that was a complement. Programmer development environments have to present a great deal of information, have users that use only a small percentage of the functionality, must perform at (slow)lightening speed and STILL be reasonably intuitive. Logos 4 adopted a very reasonable model that will take time to learn to use fluently, forces us to take on only a few restrictions/assumptions about how we work.

Now if only my Help function worked so I could figure out how they expect me to use notes to get to where I want to go ...Big Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 818
Richard Lyall | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 12:11 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:

That would be a great option if it only adjusted the controls and not the lettering.  Again, I'm getting used to it, but the worst part is the tiny little fading scroll bars. That is the most annoying thing and very anti-PC.

Why not scale the whole program up (e.g. 120%) and your text down (e.g. 80%) - that will give you almost normal text size, but with a bigger GUI.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 1:57 PM

MJ. Smith:

Don't forget that was a complement. ..... Logos 4 adopted a very reasonable model that will take time to learn to use fluently, forces us to take on only a few restrictions/assumptions about how we work.

Yes, it was obviously a complement and I should have said so. (Thanks for clarifying that.)

I am a visual thinker & learner. I know some are not. I think the new look L4 has is a work of art. . I wonder what Morris Proctor will show us in Camp Logos 4. He will probably jump right into the power user options since the basic stuff is so intuitive like the Mac

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