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This post has 104 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 2348
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 16 2009 7:18 PM

Bob Pritchett:
I don't want a clean-cut policy, because it just annoys the honest user who has a legitimate situation while doing nothing to stop the person who justifies-to-themselves whatever behavior they want.

 

Bob is right.  Those who want to get around the rules will find a way.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 17 2009 9:35 AM

Bob Pritchett:
I am not going to answer all your questions. Ever. I don't want to. I don't want a clean-cut policy, because it just annoys the honest user who has a legitimate situation while doing nothing to stop the person who justifies-to-themselves whatever behavior they want.

Thanks Bob. This does help us users, who are trying to be honest and have integrity about our agreement with you, know where you're coming from as a company.

It amazes me how many pastors and churches ignore EULA's and use software they have no legal right to use. I had to stop a well-meaning church member from installing MS Office Home and Student edition from our church computer, since the MS EULA for the Home and Student edition explicitly excludes non-profits from doing so (he traded it at the store for MS Office Standard edition). The vast majority don't ever read EULA's and many who do, simply don't think the restrictions apply to churches or pastors. Baffling.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 22 2009 9:26 AM

Ted Hans:

Bob could you kindly explain what the quote above from you means? Does this mean the end of Cds/Dvd and the download option currently available? 

We'll over DVD's for as long as there is a market for them, but even the DVD software will have the ability to "log in" to our servers to connect to more data and other features. You do NOT need to be connected to the Internet to use the software, but you will have an account online for when you do connect.

-- Bob

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 22 2009 10:22 AM

Bob Pritchett:

We'll over DVD's for as long as there is a market for them, but even the DVD software will have the ability to "log in" to our servers to connect to more data and other features. You do NOT need to be connected to the Internet to use the software, but you will have an account online for when you do connect.

Thanks for the info & every regards

Ted

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 31 2009 8:11 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Ted Hans:

Bob could you kindly explain what the quote above from you means? Does this mean the end of Cds/Dvd and the download option currently available? 

We'll over DVD's for as long as there is a market for them, but even the DVD software will have the ability to "log in" to our servers to connect to more data and other features. You do NOT need to be connected to the Internet to use the software, but you will have an account online for when you do connect.

-- Bob

I hope there will always be an offline usability of Logos. There are still missionaries and preachers with little or no internet access. That reminds me of the old days when we mailed in floppy disks for registration. Email

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Posts 2348
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 31 2009 8:25 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Ted Hans:

Bob could you kindly explain what the quote above from you means? Does this mean the end of Cds/Dvd and the download option currently available? 

We'll over DVD's for as long as there is a market for them, but even the DVD software will have the ability to "log in" to our servers to connect to more data and other features. You do NOT need to be connected to the Internet to use the software, but you will have an account online for when you do connect.

-- Bob

Please continue to make Logos available for use and not be connected to the Internet.  This was a major reason why I went with Logos and actually a "non-negotiable" on my list of requirements when I was researching different Bible software programs.

I take my laptop with me whenever I travel and like the freedom to be able to use Logos without using the Internet.

Ron

Posts 165
Wayne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 1 2009 4:28 AM

The leading sellers in the category of  "Computers and Accessories" at Amazon are netbooks. They are sold without DVD drives. The DVD will likely join the ranks of the floppy drive in a few short years. Software sellers in the very near future will need other means of delivering software. Future options, besides downloading, are likely to include flash memory, USB pin drives, etc.

RonaldQuick:

Bob Pritchett:

Ted Hans:

Bob could you kindly explain what the quote above from you means? Does this mean the end of Cds/Dvd and the download option currently available? 

We'll over DVD's for as long as there is a market for them, but even the DVD software will have the ability to "log in" to our servers to connect to more data and other features. You do NOT need to be connected to the Internet to use the software, but you will have an account online for when you do connect.

-- Bob

Please continue to make Logos available for use and not be connected to the Internet.  This was a major reason why I went with Logos and actually a "non-negotiable" on my list of requirements when I was researching different Bible software programs.

 

Posts 10
Oran Denton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 2 2011 9:02 AM

Hi Bob, It's been a year-and-a-half and this topic still lives on. The EULA serves one main purpose, to protect the property and intellectual rights of the product developer/producer. Like every other company, the goal for LOGOS is that if any money is to be made on the product, LOGOS makes it...and that no money is lost due to someone using the product in a way unintended--All Rights Are Reserved...for the benefit of LOGOS. The problem as it now stands in the Land-of-Vagueness is that the current policy's lack of clarity actually costs LOGOS money. My wife said if she had read the forum before I pressed the BUY button she would not have agreed with my making the purchase--and if I had read the forum first, I wouldn't have bothered either. I wonder how many people like myself browsed a little more and went somewhere else--perhaps hundreds. If cheaters are going to cheat, and honest people are going to honestly admit they want the LE package but can't afford $8200 for two copies no matter how much LOGOS says it's a great deal, then make the fuzzy language easier to live with by using the term "reasonable use" and let the user define what "reasonable use" is. One couple sharing one account to sit side by side on individual computers for a morning devotion should not be construed in any way as costing LOGOS a potential sale---being able to do just that would be, however, a great promotional campaign for LOGOS and help to create potentially gigantic gains in sales. As a new user in this tough economy, I want LOGOS to be around for the next 30 years. Your company's success may require the legalists to think outside of the box and make the tool the "family-friendly" and "family-affordable" product it could be. Either way, it is the role of any CEO to lead their company into the future for greater prosperity---please do!

Before I learned of all this mess, I signed my wife and myself up for the seminar in Bellingham in 2011. Now I wish I hadn't. My wife and I want to bring our two MACs with us and sit side by side just like we do every morning, but I can't afford another $4200 to solve the conflict LOGOS puts on households. I wish I could just get a refund of my Christmas gift of 2010 and order a few books through Barnes and Noble. The $4200 in hardcover would look great in my study. We have been using LOGOS for one week. Next week when I am back from dealing with the death of a family member, I will call support to ask for a refund. It's too bad, because the product has great potential. But like you, I'm not interested in being part of an eternal discussion on this matter that just won't go away.

--Oran 

Posts 10
Oran Denton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 11 2011 4:11 PM

Okay, my wife and I looked at the quality of the product, the amount we already spent (I had bought the biggest and best, which says I always try to do--and she it right) and we decided to call Sales Support. I spoke with Jim Ray Higginson (nice and helpful guy). I downgraded to the Scholar's package and ordered a second Scholar's package for my wife. In the end, I spent less than I originally had spent, but we both get to go to the training session in Bellingham this summer without any concern about EULAs. Eventually we will probably spend more (my wife's tastes in references differs slightly from mine), but we will avoid overlapping whenever possible, since we study side by side.

It's a lot of hoop jumping to get there, and I know that most cannot afford two copies for one household, but then again, we get the benefit of not tripping over each other's notes. Keeping it simple is the best route.

We look forward to visiting Logos in Bellingham and hope the team up there has a great New Year.

O

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 11 2011 5:42 PM

Oran Denton:

It's a lot of hoop jumping to get there, and I know that most cannot afford two copies for one household, but then again, we get the benefit of not tripping over each other's notes. Keeping it simple is the best route.

We look forward to visiting Logos in Bellingham and hope the team up there has a great New Year.

My wife has the Bible Study package and we are both happy not to trip over each other too. We frequently sit side-by-side (right now, in fact.) Her Bible reference needs are a lot less demanding than my wants so there is a disparity in our libraries. But I share interesting finds throughout the day with her.

Are you planning on going to National Camp Logos? I am dreaming of it. I have get to make an anniversary trip to Ireland first. Big Smile

fwiw: The way I understand Bob Pritchett's application of the EULA, my wife and I could share one license. But we would also share one set of notes, etc.  She deserves her own Logos.

 

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Posts 10
Oran Denton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 11 2011 7:30 PM

Hi Matthew,

Yes, we will be at the National Camp Logos in June. We live in the eastside of the state, but we have relatives in Bellingham to visit while we are there. My wife went to Northern Ireland in 2005. We married in 2006 (my first wife of 28 years died of leukemia), and I've never been to Ireland...but I have a passport!

I agree with you about Bob's application, but our wives should have the freedom of enjoying the software without our false accusations of someone messing with our notes...we all deserve the peace.

After Camp Logos, the world!

Posts 2420
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 11 2011 7:37 PM

Dear Oran Denton;

On page two of this thread is a comment by Bob Pritchett Dated: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:14 PM

And starting  ””Arrgghhh! I hate this topic. :-)””

[[http://community.logos.com/forums/p/341/3265.aspx#3265]]

 

After reading that and the EULA please post your suggested wording of a better one ((EULA))

 

Worded so that a Husband and Wife who are not both Pastors [each with their own church [and pulpit]] and whose children [not yet having finished High School (year 12)] maybe studying Bible studies but are not writing them for any organization what so ever can all use one and the same Portfolio edition. [with one license]    But where the family where Dad is the Pastor, Mom writes the Bible Studies and child does the sermons every third week will require three license and all at the max level. 

 

$4,000 and the wife cannot even use the read the Bible in a Year plan does not make sense when no one in the family is doing research for other then family use (no sermons [well maybe one every two years when the pastor and the head elder are both sick], not writing Bible studies, and yes, sometimes sharing what they found with friends) Logos is not trying to stop that – they are trying to stop the full school or church using one copy 

 

The EULA has to be written tight and enforced loosely.  [but if you get too loose the courts rule that you did not protect your product and you lose it]

 

We have not been smart enough to figure it out!  [And Logos only starts to be fun when you reach the $4K level (per license)]  <<Welcom to Logos>>

Posts 10
Oran Denton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 11 2011 7:53 PM

Hi David,

In the multiplication of words is much trouble (from somewhere in Proverbs), and I all too often use too many words. I once had 8000 books in my personal library and after grad school I faced moving the entire collection back across the country. I spent months picking out my favorites and worked the total down to 1800. It is much easier to pack my Mac and go!

I'm sure God knows the reason that I am not the lawyer in the family. Concerning the EULA, I defer to those whose job it is to serve the Lord with their whole hearts at Logos. I doubt that they do much of anything without prayerful consideration. I send my apologies to those who felt a greater burden fulfilling their daily tasks because of any frustration I failed to pray about first. 

And to those persons who use the software in ways that rob Logos of their rightful provision (and I doubt they spend time reading Logos forums); it is God who builds us up in the knowledge of His Son, and I doubt He would use pirated software to do so.

It's nice to be part of the greater Logos community. Have a great week!

 

Posts 2420
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 12 2011 5:24 AM

Pro 10:19  In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise.

 

Pro 15:1  A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

""And to those persons who use the software in ways that rob Logos of their rightful provision"" We have no way of stoping them so we just ask for God to bless them.

Posts 48
Chris Rees | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 17 2011 3:55 AM

Bob,

 

just want to thank you for your gracious and spirit-filled response. Many blessings to you and the company.

I am in the process of deciding which package to buy, but am waiting on academic pricing - I have just started theological study

 

regards,

 

Chris Rees (UK)

Posts 120
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 9 2011 12:35 AM

Bob and the rest at Logos,

First I am very grateful for this software and the new EULA which allows me to put it on my desktop and laptop, and Android phone!  I think this Bible software is leaps ahead of others.  My dad got me a copy of Logos and it has really helped in ministry.

My wife and I are both Bible translators in East Africa and work with different languages here so we are plainly two users.  I can't dispute that.  We are also poor so buying Logos twice is not an option.  That's the part that doesn't make sense to me.  I can't get over buying resources twice.  If my wife and I buy a physical book then it's in "our" library and not "my" library.  If we need a digital resource, we both have Kindles on one Amazon account (which to my understanding is allowed).  Although I understand why logos is doing licensing this way (for notes, reading plans, etc.), I will continue to buy paper books and/or kindle books so that they can be used in my household.  I will hesitate to buy resources in Logos unless I'm sure my wife wouldn't also find it useful and since we are in the same ministry that's probably not gonna happen.

Maybe Amazon is really on to a good thing in that each account is tied to a payment method (which is the case for Logos too).  I definitely wouldn't give out my Logos username and password because I don't want to give away the ability for someone to use my credit card even if it adds to my own library.  This fact would even make me hesitant to share it with my kids (although I don't have any yet), but not with my wife.  This wouldn't solve the problem of notes or reading plans and I'm not sure how this theory could solve that.

Thanks for the flexibility that currently exists and being so open with all of us who are asking. Of course I want to obey the spirit of Bob's explanation and the EULA so Logos won't be installed on my wife's laptop.  I hope this doesn't seem critical either.  I am writing because I would prefer to buy resources from Logos before Amazon or even paper books, but not being able to share with my wife keeps me from doing that.  Thanks again.

Blessings,
Michael 

Posts 556
Brent Hoefling | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 7 2012 11:19 AM

I like Logos.  I bought many resources.  I use it.

 

Posts 10
Oran Denton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 7 2012 11:33 AM

I agree, our wives should be free to create and save their own notes. I'm sorry I didn't see your posting sooner. We went to Camp Logos in Bellingham for #1 and then recently bought the CDs for #2. It was great being at Camp 1 with my Mrs. We both got to focus on the same thing for a couple of days, and then we went home to work on setting up our Libraries, Collections and so on. It sure makes Bible study time at home a pleasure. My wife took a youth group to Ireland in 2006, but I've never traveled out of the country. She would like to go back, and then she could be my tour guide. I hope you make it. Blessings!

 

Posts 67
Jeff Hetrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 20 2013 10:36 AM

I know the post I am responding to was written a long time ago but for those reading it in the now, like I am, I wanted to offer a potentially helpful response.  I don't believe any part of Scripture teaches us to "share all of our Earthly possessions with our wives" so if we make a vow before God to do that we may be committing to something we can't live up to.  Try, for example, sharing your driver's license or your professional license (such as license to practice medicine) with your wife and see how quickly you end up heavily fined and possibly going to prison.   Just saying.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 20 2013 12:42 PM

Jeff Hetrick:
I know the post I am responding to was written a long time ago but for those reading it in the now, like I am, I wanted to offer a potentially helpful response.

Thanks for weighing in. I don't know if you read this other thread but it pretty much covered a lot of ideas:

Suggestion:Allowing husband and wives to share one Logos 4 license

 

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