Going back on my principles (AKA Office 2007 or 2010)

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Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jun 9 2011 7:20 AM | Locked

Logos has some kind of power over me I'm not able to quantify.

I have sternly resisted installing any flavor of Microsoft Office on my computer for a very very very long time.  OpenOffice.org has been very good to me over the years after I finally bailed on Lotus Wordpro.   Alas, my will is almost broken.  I can continue learning to write docx via libre office as Ebbe offered elsewhere or I can just bite the bullet and begin to standardize along with the rest of the world.  

I already run an MS computer, why not run an MS word processor.  I've got access to office 2007 but before I put my hands on it and stuff it into my CD drive, is there any reason I might want to go to 2010 instead?

I know this isn't precisely Logos specific, but since it involves Logos and PBB - it applies.

Alright guys, I'm trusting you for honest feedback.  Let's have it.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 386
Clinton Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 7:32 AM | Locked

Office 2007 was the first one with the ribbon, 2010 is like the second year of a new car line. They have improved the UI in my opinion but not significantly.

Since you are new to office you will not have (guessing here) a lot of files with macros. 2010 seems way more insane about blocking macros. Also, macros for 2007 may need tweaking to run under 2010.

Bottom line if I already have 2007, I would not buy 2010 unless I was getting it for nothing/next to nothing.

 

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 7:39 AM | Locked

Thanks for the feedback Clinton.  

A friend has gifted me office 2007 home and student, (He bought the full -not upgrade- version of Office 2010 so it's a legal gift)

I'm also relentlessly addicted to "latest and greatest" technology - my undoing at times.

So there's a bit more information to chew on for anyone else who wants to direct me.  I found Office 2010 home and student for about $115 with shipping so there's a large difference between Free and Fee.  

Is there *anything* in 2010 worth the extra $115?  (to anybody?)

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 13420
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 8:09 AM | Locked

There were only two reasons I upgraded to Office 2010, which may or may not apply to you:

  • Outlook 2010 supports multiple exchange accounts
  • Publisher 2010 is significantly better than Publisher 2007 (which was barely updated from 2003).

After upgrade I also found out I liked the following features:

  • Document map is much better in Word 2010
  • You get a calendar preview when receiving meeting requests in Outlook 2010
  • You have an optional conversation view in Outlook 2010 (so that your entire to/from conversation temporarily appears when you click on an email)

Office 2010 is also better for collaboration, but I don't use that, and is slightly easier to use if you're migrating from Office 2003 and earlier (because they restored the file menu in 2010 which was removed in 2007).

Posts 3751
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 8:27 AM | Locked

Thomas Black:

Is there *anything* in 2010 worth the extra $115?  (to anybody?)

Hi Tom,

$115 is about the limit of what I'd pay for the difference, but it's probably worth that for a few features:

  • It may be possible to tailor the ribbon in Office 2007 (they were pretty "proud" of it), but I never figured out how... it's easy in 2010. For me, that alone is huge.
  • I can save pdf natively from Word.
  • Finally, for large complex files with text & graphics mixed (a 25 year church history, most recent example--lots of pix in booklet formatted text on 8.5 x 17 paper), I find 2010 much less quirkier to work with.

Excel, Power Point, Access, Publisher, & Outlook  (I have Office pro both versions) are also minorly tweaked better.

IMO, the combo of easier to use + later version make it worth that difference, but I wouldn't pay a lot more.

Helpful?

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 1228
Ron | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 8:42 AM | Locked

Thomas Black:

Thanks for the feedback Clinton.  

A friend has gifted me office 2007 home and student, (He bought the full -not upgrade- version of Office 2010 so it's a legal gift)

I'm also relentlessly addicted to "latest and greatest" technology - my undoing at times.

So there's a bit more information to chew on for anyone else who wants to direct me.  I found Office 2010 home and student for about $115 with shipping so there's a large difference between Free and Fee.  

Is there *anything* in 2010 worth the extra $115?  (to anybody?)

2010 fixes many of the things that many people complained about with the 2007 UI...making some of the new features of the ribbon more easily discoverable, etc.  I've seen countless people sit down at 2007 for the first time and spend 10-15 minutes trying to figure out where the print button is hidden (it is in the "Office button"/"Office orb"...which isn't necessarily obvious).  I haven't seen anyone have that problem with 2010, since all the applications now have a brightly colored "File" tab.  They are generally minor changes, but usually worthwhile ones.  Given the choice, I'd always choose 2010 over 2007 (think of 2010 as 2007 SR-1)...but it is hard to argue with free.

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 8:57 AM | Locked

Thomas Black:
I finally bailed on Lotus Wordpro

I still think that WordPro was better than Word is now!

Thomas Black:
any reason I might want to go to 2010 instead?

I use 2007 on my home Notebook and 2010 on my work one. I switch between them all of the time and never notice the difference!

A couple of observations on other comments.

1 - If you have the student version Outlook is not included, I agree 2010 is better than 2007 as observed elsewhere but its not going to help you. Publisher is also not included.

2 - I create PDFs on my home system nearly every day using the built in features of 2007, Only difference between 2010 and 2007 is that in 2007 you need to use save as PDF whereas in 2010 theres a menu dedicated to it.

Personally I'd be asking what Logos resource $115 could fund.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 9:05 AM | Locked

Here is a link to what's new in 2010.

More importantly, I would be concerned a little about changes in XML support.  The XML file format was modified after Word 2007, as 2007 supports ECMA-376 and 2010 supports ISO/IEC 29500:2008, in two variants .A Transitional variant is intended for legacy compatibility and is not supposed to be used to produce new documents. Word 2010 supports reading and writing Transitional documents but only reading Strict documents. More support for Strict is coming in future versions.

Why is all that important? Logos' PBB use of Word's XML capability will most certainly be tied to their latest version. For the relatively small price of upgrade, you can be certain not to run into a version issues that may take longer to fix because they are lower priority. To me, it's just not worth it given there ARE clear differences in XML support.

 

My .02.

Posts 13420
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 9:31 AM | Locked

Just to clarify the comments above on PDFs in Word. Word 2010 saves PDFs out of the box. Word 2007 requires a free download from MS to save as PDF.

Regarding WordPro - I'm old enough to remember AmiPro, and still have WordPro installed. WordPro '97 was better than Word 2003, but was finally overtaken by Word 2007 (IMO).

Posts 5573
Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 9:48 AM | Locked

Thomas Black:
A friend has gifted me office 2007 home and student, (He bought the full -not upgrade- version of Office 2010 so it's a legal gift)

When I looked at the home/student EULA, it specifically excluded use by non-profits. When I asked for clarification from MS (in one of their forums), I was told that even if I own my own computer and purchased with my own money, if my use was primarily for my work for the church, it would not be within the EULA for me to use it.

Recently, I went to a certain company that is Consistent about providing Computer related Bargains to non-profit organizations, and purchased Office 2010 Pro for just over $100. It's good for only one installation (can't put it on both desktop and laptop), but it'll do for this purpose.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 10:36 AM | Locked

Mark Barnes:
Office 2010 is also better for collaboration,
 Does this mean multiple input from various authors would be possible for building massive PBB's?    Would this require a sharepoint server or perhaps an already on the web (free) solution?
BillS:
IMO, the combo of easier to use + later version make it worth that difference, but I wouldn't pay a lot more.

 

Helpful?

 Incredibly helpful brother.  I'm grateful again for the feedback.
Ron Keyston Jr:
I haven't seen anyone have that problem with 2010, since all the applications now have a brightly colored "File" tab.
 This is something of a moot question but, is that due to better design...or increasing familiarity with the ribbon interface?
Ron Keyston Jr:
Given the choice, I'd always choose 2010 over 2007 (think of 2010 as 2007 SR-1)...but it is hard to argue with free.
 That final statement is precisely where my struggle is coming from.  Free versus not-free is a big deal.  Obviously I'm willing to pay for something that does what I need it to.  Case in point: Logos.
Graham Owen:
I still think that WordPro was better than Word is now!
 Solidarity is so comforting.  Yes.  As for outlook not being in the home pack, that doesn't bother me.  I don't believe I'd use it since Gmail/google calendar/google contacts already sync to my blackberry.  (My Android is still waiting for Logos before I purchase it.  :-)   )
Dominic Sela:
Here is a link to what's new in 2010.
 Your google-fu trumps mine this time.  I spent too much time looking for precisely that information from Microsoft.  I found short lists from lockergnome and a few other sites but couldn't find this one.  Thank you for the needle in the haystack!!!
Dominic Sela:
More importantly, I would be concerned a little about changes in XML support.  The XML file format was modified after Word 2007, as 2007 supports ECMA-376 and 2010 supports ISO/IEC 29500:2008, in two variants .A Transitional variant is intended for legacy compatibility and is not supposed to be used to produce new documents. Word 2010 supports reading and writing Transitional documents but only reading Strict documents. More support for Strict is coming in future versions.

 

Why is all that important? Logos' PBB use of Word's XML capability will most certainly be tied to their latest version. For the relatively small price of upgrade, you can be certain not to run into a version issues that may take longer to fix because they are lower priority. To me, it's just not worth it given there ARE clear differences in XML support.

 I was already familiar with this particular snag.  It's why I reacted earlier with ... disapointment when I found out DocX was the chosen vessel.  <sigh />  But I will not get into that again, my thoughts are posted elsehwere.  It is however precisely the forward looking compatibility that has me eyeing 2010 with the most interest.
Richard DeRuiter:
When I looked at the home/student EULA, it specifically excluded use by non-profits. When I asked for clarification from MS (in one of their forums), I was told that even if I own my own computer and purchased with my own money, if my use was primarily for my work for the church, it would not be within the EULA for me to use it.

 

Recently, I went to a certain company that is Consistent about providing Computer related Bargains to non-profit organizations, and purchased Office 2010 Pro for just over $100. It's good for only one installation (can't put it on both desktop and laptop), but it'll do for this purpose.

 That is particularly concerning Richard.  And frankly, now that I know this is the case I cannot in good conscience serve Christ with a free home version of 2007.  IMHO you've made my decision.  If you don't mind - is there a link you can email me to that company?  I believe you have my email address.  tcblack stilltruth and all that.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 1228
Ron | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 11:02 AM | Locked

Thomas Black:
This is something of a moot question but, is that due to better design...or increasing familiarity with the ribbon interface?

It is due to better design.  Sorry, I wasn't very clear...I was comparing people that I watched move from 2003 to 2007 vs people that I watched move from 2003 to 2010.  I've seen large numbers of people in both situations due to working in IT and invariably, the transition from 2003 to 2010 goes more smoothly than 2003 to 2007 due to better and more obvious/intuitive interface design.

EDIT: I should also note that almost all "average users" that I've worked with that have used both 2007 and 2010 prefer 2010 by a large margin, though they often can't articulate why.  I tend to attribute it to the more refined user interface.  The changes are subtle, but make a big difference.

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 11:17 AM | Locked

The one thing I have not seen mentioned is PowerPoint 2010's handling of Videos. It is far easier to embed them in the document with 2010. Also, They can be trimmed and faded. So if you want to show a 50 second clip of a 5 minute video put it in your presentation, Trim it (a very easy task) and then optimize the presentation. It will get rid of the trimmed portions and embed the video for a smaller file.

I'm a latest and greatest nut too, so I understand. For me, I got 2010 Professional version for $20 through a military program :-)

Posts 13420
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 11:19 AM | Locked

Thomas Black:
Mark Barnes:
Office 2010 is also better for collaboration,
 Does this mean multiple input from various authors would be possible for building massive PBB's?    Would this require a sharepoint server or perhaps an already on the web (free) solution?

I believe a good deal of the functionality works with Microsoft Live SkyDrive (which is free).

Thomas Black:
If you don't mind - is there a link you can email me to that company?  I believe you have my email address.  tcblack stilltruth and all that.

Check out which words he capitalised, and then practice that Google-fu of yours Wink

Posts 5573
Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2011 11:21 AM | Locked

Thomas Black:
 If you don't mind - is there a link you can email me to that company?  I believe you have my email address.  tcblack stilltruth and all that.

Done.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 117
Kenny Larsen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 10 2011 2:36 AM | Locked

Hi Thomas,

Richard is right regarding the EULA of home and student as we had a similar issue with people who do the Powerpoint for church on a Sunday either designing or running the PP from their own laptops with the home edition. However, MS do offer charity licenses to non-profits which are about the same price (if not slightly cheaper) than the home version, depending on where you live will depend on where you buy these from but MS would be able to help.

As an aside, to those who are linked to either a University or Bible College you can get the Academic version (not Student and Home) which doesn't have this licensing restriction for about £40.

Kenny 

Posts 527
Ebbe Andréasson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 10 2011 4:06 AM | Locked

Thomas Black:
OpenOffice.org has been very good to me over the years after I finally bailed on Lotus Wordpro.

Do you know that a bunch of developers leaved Oracle and OpenOffice some months ago and started LibreOffice? Switching to LibreOffice doesn't need any re-learning. LibreOffice works as OOo but with a little different UI (the toolbar icons is different). Your macros, plugins and everything (I think) will still work.

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 10 2011 7:23 AM | Locked

Ron Keyston Jr:
EDIT: I should also note that almost all "average users" that I've worked with that have used both 2007 and 2010 prefer 2010 by a large margin, though they often can't articulate why.  I tend to attribute it to the more refined user interface.  The changes are subtle, but make a big difference.

 

Count me as one and I don't know why!  Big Smile

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 1228
Ron | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 10 2011 7:30 AM | Locked

Robert Pavich:
Count me as one and I don't know why!  Big Smile

Well, now you can tell everyone that you like 2010 better than 2007 because of the refined user interface Big Smile

Posts 3751
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 10 2011 7:40 AM | Locked

Kenny Larsen:
MS do offer charity licenses to non-profits

Hi there,

I've inquired about those to MS friends, who tell me that while it USED to be that "charity" included churches, they're now careful to target non-religious use within charities... the charity (or use within the charity) must be related to health or human services.

If you find out differently, I'd sure like to know. Smile

Blessings!

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

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