Kittle or Kiddle

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Posts 237
Rick Ratzlaff | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Aug 22 2011 5:09 PM

Is there any plan to incorporate some of Kiddles work. (spelling may be wrong) A greek work?

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Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 22 2011 5:17 PM

WD40:

Is there any plan to incorporate some of Kiddles work. (spelling may be wrong) A greek work?

WD40, there are a number of hits available now: http://www.logos.com/products/search?q=kittel

 

"I read dead people..."

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 22 2011 5:26 PM

To add to what Mark said, anyone who has Scholar's Library or higher already has Gerhard Kittel's most important work:

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT) (10 vols.)

I'm not aware of the usefulness of his other works.

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Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 22 2011 7:36 PM

If we are talking about Gerhard Kittel, his TDNT is one of the reasons anyone who understands Greek should buy the Scholars Library or above. Having this massive study on Greek words available at a mouse-click is just amazing. It takes me about 2 mintues to look a word up in the paper version, but less than 2 seconds in Logos!

But if we are talking about Kittel's broader works, they are seriously undermined by their racism. Scot McKnight posted about this on his blog recently:

http://www.patheos.com/community/jesuscreed/2011/08/18/jesus-in-our-own-image/

 

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2011 6:32 AM

Allen Browne:

If we are talking about Gerhard Kittel, his TDNT is one of the reasons anyone who understands Greek should buy the Scholars Library or above. Having this massive study on Greek words available at a mouse-click is just amazing. It takes me about 2 mintues to look a word up in the paper version, but less than 2 seconds in Logos!

But if we are talking about Kittel's broader works, they are seriously undermined by their racism. Scot McKnight posted about this on his blog recently:

http://www.patheos.com/community/jesuscreed/2011/08/18/jesus-in-our-own-image/

 

Very disturbing.  

Incidentally, the Johannes Hempel, mentioned as one of those who sought to arianise the Bible is NOT the Johannes Hempel who later became Bishop of Dresden.  

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2011 1:02 PM

Allen Browne:

But if we are talking about Kittel's broader works, they are seriously undermined by their racism. Scot McKnight posted about this on his blog recently:

http://www.patheos.com/community/jesuscreed/2011/08/18/jesus-in-our-own-image/

Thanks for the reference - I didn't know

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 894
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2011 3:48 PM

Allen Browne:

But if we are talking about Kittel's broader works, they are seriously undermined by their racism. Scot McKnight posted about this on his blog recently:

http://www.patheos.com/community/jesuscreed/2011/08/18/jesus-in-our-own-image/

Interesting history, and well worth the time to read the article at the link.  I found the following point interesting:

"7. When the war was over many, if not most, of these German Christian scholars and theologians and pastors were rehabilitated, including Grundmann. Their lame argument was to blame the whole thing on the *** and that the de-judaization effort was the only way they could preserve Christianity in Germany from Nazi destruction."

I wonder whether I would have the courage to oppose a tsunami like Nazism, or would I have rationalized my actions (as these theologians did).  Would I have simply closed the windows and sang louder... 

I certainly don't condone racism in any form.  I also empathize with the dreadful decisions they had to make in Nazi Germany back then... and then live with for the rest of their lives.

 

"I read dead people..."

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 8:44 AM

Brother Mark:

I wonder whether I would have the courage to oppose a tsunami like Nazism, or would I have rationalized my actions (as these theologians did).  Would I have simply closed the windows and sang louder... 

I certainly don't condone racism in any form.  I also empathize with the dreadful decisions they had to make in Nazi Germany back then... and then live with for the rest of their lives.

 

Many theologians, pastors and lay people had the courage to oppose the ***.  Many risked their lives to save Jews, and Praeses Lothar Kreyssig,a lawyer. not only went to investigate the deaths of several of his handicapped wards of court, who were transported to a hospital in Austria and died soon after, but on discovering what had happened to them, he took out a charge of murder against those who had been responsible for sending them to their deaths.  After the war, he said that anyone who had survived had made enough compromises that they could not dissociate themselves from the guilt incurred by the whole German people for what had been done in their name and which they had not opposed enough to prevent it.  (As a Brit, I am very conscious of some of our own war crimes, e.g. our blanket  bombing of ciivilians, hence I am not implying that only Germans incurred guilt for war crimes.).  After the war he had the crazy idea, which became reality after many years, of founding Aktion Suehnezeichen (Action Reconciliation), through which young German volunteers, who had played no part in the war, would ask permission to go to countries who had suffered from Germans in the war and build something as a sign of penitence, and offer the reconciliation that only Christ can give.  I've expressed that badly, but it had a tremendous effect in e.g.  England, Poland, Israel, Czechoslavakia.  Then young people from these countries started going to Germany and working with young Germans in Suehnezeichen groups.  I was one of them.  My first travel abroad was to communist East Germany, where we cleared away rubble we had left in the Anglo-American raid on Dresden, where we bombed, amongst other things, a church hospital.  Had I not been in Dresden in 1965, I should not be in Albania now.

Having remembered the courage of members of the Confessing Church in Germany, I remember with shame my own cowardice in failing through fear to report maltreatment of patients in a geriatric hospital where I worked.  True, I could produce no proof, true I protested when people I was working with slapped and insulted the patients, but I was too cowardly to mention it to senior people in the hierarchy.  I'm not in a position to condemn Christians in Germany who dared not risk their lives and those of their families to protest against an apparently all-powerful government.

 

 

 

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Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 9:04 AM

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Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 9:07 AM

nicky crane:

  I'm not in a position to condemn Christians in Germany who dared not risk their lives and those of their families to protest against an apparently all-powerful government.

... and although I'm not at liberty to discuss any incidents (nor would I choose to if I were at liberty to do so), I am in no position to condemn those Christians either (or any others who, like you and I, who may have been in comparable situations).  Rather, I easily identify with them, forgive them, and commit them to the tender mercy of the Savior.

Its good to share, in this limited way, with you.  --Blessings!

 

"I read dead people..."

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 10:38 AM

Brother Mark:

... and although I'm not at liberty to discuss any incidents (nor would I choose to if I were at liberty to do so), I am in no position to condemn those Christians either (or any others who, like you and I, who may have been in comparable situations).  Rather, I easily identify with them, forgive them, and commit them to the tender mercy of the Savior.

Its good to share, in this limited way, with you.  --Blessings!

Thanks!  

I spent some time in Austria with a family who were terribly cut up about having supported the (Nazi supporting) German Christians.  A friend said her father originally joined the Confessing Church because he couldn't bear Hitler's bad German!  

 

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