How Long Before Mac Developers Will be Allowed to Catch Up to Windows version?

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 3 2011 3:13 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
You don't tug on superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind, you don't pull the mask off the ole Lone Ranger and, you don't send Smiling 4 Jesus off to work for Logos-smile. But really: He does do an incredible job of welcoming everyone and helping anyone, he does it with integrity, compassion and honesty. Thanks Smiling.

And notice how KS4J does it all without moving to Bellingham! That should be another reason to consider telecommuting for Mac developers.

Also, if the Mac development team were spread out across the nation (or world) it would be very hard for thieves to target the hardware for a third time. Computer Computer Computer Computer Computer Computer Computer Computer Computer

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 3 2011 4:17 PM

Rich Davis:
KS4J - you are doing a great job with Logos while simply serving the Body of Christ without expectation of remuneration. You should go to work for Logos as you will be a great asset. 

If Logos does not hire him, they will be making a colossal mistake—assuming he is interested.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 3 2011 7:24 PM

Jack Caviness:

Rich Davis:
KS4J - you are doing a great job with Logos while simply serving the Body of Christ without expectation of remuneration. You should go to work for Logos as you will be a great asset. 

If Logos does not hire him, they will be making a colossal mistake—assuming he is interested.

Interest = passionately YES, however Logos recently choose someone else so personally not moving (yet).  Do know move is coming; not know when and where God wants my wife and I to go.  Daily praying to be smart and get things done along with praising God's wonderfully positive changes: want to be holy and blameless in His Love always.  Thankful for Logos Software (awesome study capabilities), Logos (company), and especially Logos (the Word) loving relationship that includes all spiritual blessings in heavenly places.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 302
John Graves | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 3 2011 7:33 PM

The big issue in all of this for me is the fact that when L4mac was first released the message from Logos was that in no time it would be no different than the win side of things because they are on the same code just different UI (not a programmer don't know what that means.) I just went back and looked at the forums from those days, years ago and I can see where many argued that Mac wouldn't be behind windows for long.  Anyway I am so glad I went ahead and put my money back into a PC since all I really use a computer for is sermon prep and here we are well over a year later and still Mac is not up to speed.  

I understand there are difficulties in software development, the problem is people bought this software expecting one thing and have gotten another.  I have a now 2 year old macbook that I use at home for bible study and using logos to do the simplest of things is so frustrating that I barely use it.  

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 3 2011 7:51 PM

John Graves:
I have a now 2 year old macbook that I use at home for bible study and using logos to do the simplest of things is so frustrating that I barely use it.

I can take your frustration off your hands... I'll take it! [No one ever takes me up on that offer]. Wink

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 3 2011 8:28 PM

John Graves:
I understand there are difficulties in software development, the problem is people bought this software expecting one thing and have gotten another.  I have a now 2 year old macbook that I use at home for bible study and using logos to do the simplest of things is so frustrating that I barely use it.  

Appreciate frustration, please elaborate about simple items.

Part of impetus for Logos User Voice suggestion => Improve Logos 4 Menu Responsiveness was sluggish response in Logos 4 Mac using 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (which is faster than 2009 MacBook models).  Upgrading to 27" iMac with 2.93 GHz Intel Core i7 noticeably improved Logos 4 Mac usability.

One option is running Logos 4 using Windows on Mac.  Wiki Logos 4 Mac => Need Logos 4 PC feature? includes virtualization and Boot Camp.  Considering speed of older MacBook models, Boot Camp would be better.  Also could upgrade MacBook hard drive to improve performance.

If buying Mac laptop today, recommend looking at new MacBook Air models that are much faster than 2 year old MacBook along with being lighter.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 388
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 3 2011 8:50 PM

Bob Pritchett:
It makes me smile to to see such love and passion for a platform

I would love to see the passion at Logos directed more towards completing the Logos 4 Mac platform.

Bob Pritchett:
For what it's worth, I coded for Mac's before I coded for Windows. But I'm a bit out of date

Speaking of out dated, It would be great if you could bring Logos 4 Mac platform up to date like the Windows version.

Bob Pritchett:
Apple hasn't designed things perfectly

One could say Apple isn't the only company falling short on designing software properly.

Bob Pritchett:
we (consumers) all suffer.

Some users suffer more than others.

Bob Pritchett:
Yes, we could have delayed Proclaim

I agree with that thought, you should have have finished Logos 4 Mac Platform before introducing (Proclaim) software product.

Thanks for your response Bob!

 

Posts 302
John Graves | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 4 2011 2:18 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

John Graves:
I understand there are difficulties in software development, the problem is people bought this software expecting one thing and have gotten another.  I have a now 2 year old macbook that I use at home for bible study and using logos to do the simplest of things is so frustrating that I barely use it.  

Appreciate frustration, please elaborate about simple items.

 

Part of impetus for Logos User Voice suggestion => Improve Logos 4 Menu Responsiveness was sluggish response in Logos 4 Mac using 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (which is faster than 2009 MacBook models).  Upgrading to 27" iMac with 2.93 GHz Intel Core i7 noticeably improved Logos 4 Mac usability.

 

One option is running Logos 4 using Windows on Mac.  Wiki Logos 4 Mac => Need Logos 4 PC feature? includes virtualization and Boot Camp.  Considering speed of older MacBook models, Boot Camp would be better.  Also could upgrade MacBook hard drive to improve performance.

If buying Mac laptop today, recommend looking at new MacBook Air models that are much faster than 2 year old MacBook along with being lighter.

Keep Smiling Smile

Simple items such as scrolling in a bible with interlinear view also opening a book etc.  I am sure a new macbook might be faster but I will not be buying another one anytime soon.  Most of my work is now done on my office pc which is  faster at everything than my macbook for about half the price I might add.  My 2008 Toshiba runs L4win faster than my 09 macbook.  Thanks for the suggestions though.

Edit: I mean my Toshiba laptop and upon further consideration they are about the same when it comes to L4.  

Posts 302
John Graves | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 4 2011 2:19 AM

alabama24:

John Graves:
I have a now 2 year old macbook that I use at home for bible study and using logos to do the simplest of things is so frustrating that I barely use it.

I can take your frustration off your hands... I'll take it! [No one ever takes me up on that offer]. Wink

Big Smile Not that frustrating, I'll make do.  

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 4 2011 7:02 AM

John Graves:

Simple items such as scrolling in a bible with interlinear view also opening a book etc.  I am sure a new macbook might be faster but I will not be buying another one anytime soon.  Most of my work is now done on my office pc which is  faster at everything than my macbook for about half the price I might add.  My 2008 Toshiba runs L4win faster than my 09 macbook.  Thanks for the suggestions though.

Edit: I mean my Toshiba laptop and upon further consideration they are about the same when it comes to L4.

Curious about Logos 4 Mac version ?  Logos 4.3 has noticeable interlinear scrolling speed improvement (compared to Logos 4.2).

For disk intensive items (e.g. opening a book), upgrading disk drive from 5400 RPM to 7200 RPM can be up to 30 % faster (noticeably faster in many applications). MacSales has Do It Yourself kits => http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/hard-drives/2.5-Notebook/SATA/DIY/

For new ultrabooks, noticed Toshiba Portege Z830 has similar price range as Apple's MacBook Air => http://www.slashgear.com/toshiba-portege-z830-ultrabook-pricing-revealed-03192802/  For entry level model, appears Toshiba Z830 has slower CPU with 4 GB RAM and 128 GB SSD for bit less (~ $ 30) than new MacBook Air with 4 GB RAM and 64 GB SSD with faster CPU (choose speed vs storage).  Anticipating more MacBook Air competitors => http://venturebeat.com/2011/10/28/hp-ultrabook/ (noticed Intel funneling $ 300 million into developing ultrabooks).

For 17" laptop, concur with half price comment when comparing Dell Outlet 17" XPS-L702X with refurbished 17" MacBook Pro today.

Logos 4 is resource intensive on Mac & PC – benefits from fast processor, graphics, and disk along with adequate memory (i.e. newer hardware since Logos 4 being designed for use over 5 to 8 years).  On Mac and PC, newer hardware does improve Logos 4 usability (albeit some items still feel slow: e.g. opening a Bible that has several Logos Greek Morphology visual filters takes many seconds, then scrolling and jumping to other verses is responsive).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 388
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 5 2011 11:12 AM

Joe Miller:
John Fidel:
As a Logos employee, you may be able to find out.
I submit bug reports like everyone else and have no idea regarding timetable.  The three issues I pointed out in my first post are ones I have reported over many many many cycles and all I am told is, "they are known issues and are on the list."  New features get added, but from my perspective little effort is put into making the existing ones work properly

Joe,

As a long time Logos user, and former employee this must be frustrating?  I am with you, I don't understand their logic either.  Logos knew the availability of qualified Mac developers was virtually non-existent.  Why would they spread their developers out even thinner with a new product launch?

I went to the Logos site and looked at the jobs section.  Maybe, Logos should give strong consideration to re-thinking there requirement to relocate since it is so difficult to get developers.Idea

 

"This position is at our offices in the wonderful city of Bellingham, Washington. We are sorry, but we will not be considering applications for remote employment or telecommuting."

 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 5 2011 12:19 PM

MJD:
"This position is at our offices in the wonderful city of Bellingham, Washington. We are sorry, but we will not be considering applications for remote employment or telecommuting."

Noticed Bob Pritchett's earlier reply on 31 Oct => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/40349/301264.aspx includes:

Bob Pritchett:
We are planning to open a satellite development office near Phoenix, AZ in the next few months to get access to a different and larger labor pool.

Wonder about Snow Bird development ? Summers in Bellingham with Winters in Phoenix (with Spring and Fall migrations between offices).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 7 2011 12:58 PM

Bob Pritchett:
To say we're ignoring the Mac, or aren't committed to the platform, is simply silly
Bob, not sure why you responded to everything BUT the substance of my original post HERE

I make no broad-sweeping allegations about L4M being ignored.  The guys do a great job & I know that Logos is interested in making money from Mac, so you are not ignoring it.  BUT since the existing team is limited, it is clear they have been focused on developing new features, and that means less time to fix simple regressions... you know stuff that worked in one version then stopped working and has not been fixed.  Like the one specific example I gave of Headers in the Passage List.  This feature worked at one point, it was broken in another release, and it has not been a priority to fix it since that time.  This is not even so much about Windows parity, as simply making the Passage List work as advertised so when I stand in front of a group of people to show the Mac version, I don't have to say, "well... this feature works in windows and someday it will work in Mac again."

I am also not asking for grand elegance or "Mac-like" perfection, I simply want to be able to drag and drop my sub-folders in the Favorites and organize my stuff.  Pretty basic stuff really.  I mean, i can do it in the main folders, just not in the sub-folders so I know it can't be that hard of an issue, right?

My guess is that it is sometimes easier to respond to "outrageous" allegations or paint simple requests as "more of the same", but sometimes what is easier is not what is right.  In this case, I am looking at 2 specific issues that I have reported for many development cycles and was hoping to get folks focused on simply asking for that these items be fixed before new features are added.

Thanks.

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 7 2011 12:58 PM

Bob Pritchett:
To say we're ignoring the Mac, or aren't committed to the platform, is simply silly
Bob, not sure why you responded to everything BUT the substance of my original post HERE

I make no broad-sweeping allegations about L4M being ignored.  The guys do a great job & I know that Logos is interested in making money from Mac, so you are not ignoring it.  BUT since the existing team is limited, it is clear they have been focused on developing new features, and that means less time to fix simple regressions... you know stuff that worked in one version then stopped working and has not been fixed.  Like the one specific example I gave of Headers in the Passage List.  This feature worked at one point, it was broken in another release, and it has not been a priority to fix it since that time.  This is not even so much about Windows parity, as simply making the Passage List work as advertised so when I stand in front of a group of people to show the Mac version, I don't have to say, "well... this feature works in windows and someday it will work in Mac again."

I am also not asking for grand elegance or "Mac-like" perfection, I simply want to be able to drag and drop my sub-folders in the Favorites and organize my stuff.  Pretty basic stuff really.  I mean, i can do it in the main folders, just not in the sub-folders so I know it can't be that hard of an issue, right?

My guess is that it is sometimes easier to respond to "outrageous" allegations or paint simple requests as "more of the same", but sometimes what is easier is not what is right.  In this case, I am looking at 2 specific issues that I have reported for many development cycles and was hoping to get folks focused on simply asking for that these items be fixed before new features are added.

Thanks.

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 453
Mike S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 7 2011 2:04 PM

Joe Miller:
This feature worked at one point, it was broken in another release, and it has not been a priority to fix it since that time. . . In this case, I am looking at 2 specific issues that I have reported for many development cycles and was hoping to get folks focused on simply asking for that these items be fixed before new features are added.

Just wanted to voice my voice on this issue concurrently: the biggest issue for me is the continued disregard of what are clearly bugs.

The Passage List feature is broken on the mac and needs to be fixed:  I can quickly find that it was loudly voiced as an issue, no bug back in Feb . . . when nothing is done for well over 8 months after calling out a bug, it's pretty difficult not to feel like there's a real problem here. I know I had voiced it before then as well.  

Consider me asking (yet again) that these items get fixed.

 

Posts 388
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 7 2011 7:57 PM

Mike S.:
Consider me asking (yet again) that these items get fixed.

Do you Storm"PROCLAIM"Storm there is a problem?

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 10 2011 11:26 PM

Sorry, Joe... the problem is that I don't know the answer as to why specific bugs/regressions/partiy problems aren't fixed, so I tend to ignore them in my responses. I often don't get to the forum till late at night (like now!) or on the weekend, and I can't just pick up the phone and ask someone why "headings in passage list" aren't fixed. In fact, I'm not sure which team member to ask, so it's the kind of thing I need to walk over to the devs and ask around about.

So sometimes, when I see specifics like that in a forum post, I hope that the Mac devs (usually) reading these threads will jump in and answer the speciifcs they know the answers to.

In this case I'll forward your question along specifically. Because, yes, it seems like fixing things we broke in a build would be an obvious and important thing to do right away. But I just don't know what's going on with this specific issue.

-- Bob

 

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Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 11 2011 5:42 AM

Wow,  that's really all I can say at this point. 

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 11 2011 11:24 AM

Wow ... Phoenix!!

What a great place for the Southwest Logos Training Center!

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 214
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 14 2011 5:02 PM

I am anything but a fanboy... I have been a Logos user for a long, long time. I can say that with L4 we see much more earnest development than with the "L1" promises that never materialized. I am also a long time accordance user. I, like so many others, am frustrated at times, but at least there is progress. I believe that parity will come -eventually.

What I would like to see immediately is an easier copy bible verses tool. The whole highlight the ref in your doc (regardless of app), hit F12 and then enter and keep writing that Accordance has has spoiled me. Or else a basic word processor built in as with Bibleworks and WordSearch would solve that. Power research tools are awesome and I love to use them, but when it gets down to brass tacks, I am writing sermons, lessons, or studies for use in my ministry. Simplicity and focus in those tasks are key for me. I wish I had a worship team to collaborate with just so I use Proclaim!

All that said - I want to say thank you to Logos for for their Mac efforts. Keep plugging away guys. You have come a long way on L4. We will continue to complain, compare and ask for new features and improvements. I imagine that one platform will always be ahead of the other even after "parity" is achieved.

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