How Long Before Mac Developers Will be Allowed to Catch Up to Windows version?

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 14 2011 6:16 PM

Jeffrey S. Robison:
What I would like to see immediately is an easier copy bible verses tool. The whole highlight the ref in your doc (regardless of app)...

Logos 4 Mac already has a Text Service with Keyboard shortcut => Mac help for Logos so can enter verse reference, optionally using abbreviation => http://www.logos.com/L4/support/biblebookabbrev (with period between chapter and verse: e.g. php4.4) , highlight verse reference, press cmd + shift + E keyboard shortcut to replace reference with passage (from Logos 4 Mac).

Option: can double click keyboard shortcut cmd + shift + E to change (in System Preferences => Keyboard => Keyboard Shortcuts - Services - Text)

Jeffrey S. Robison:
All that said - I want to say thank you to Logos for for their Mac efforts. Keep plugging away guys. You have come a long way on L4. We will continue to complain, compare and ask for new features and improvements. I imagine that one platform will always be ahead of the other even after "parity" is achieved.

Yes

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Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 14 2011 6:56 PM

I have looked over the forum history and, as such, have no faith this is going to get better any time soon-sorry, just don't.

Some of the current issues ( bugs, problems etc.) go all the way back to 2009 and have not been resolved yet. So, perhaps two or three more years and they will fix it where it will "open without crashing every other time", freezing, crashing in the middle of studies"?

 

 

 

 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 14 2011 8:19 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

I have looked over the forum history and, as such, have no faith this is going to get better any time soon-sorry, just don't.

Some of the current issues ( bugs, problems etc.) go all the way back to 2009 and have not been resolved yet. So, perhaps two or three more years and they will fix it where it will "open without crashing every other time", freezing, crashing in the middle of studies"?

Observation: Logos 4 Mac experience seems to vary a bit depending on computer and user.  By way of comparison, my wife and I do not remember last time stable Logos 4 Mac crashed on her (using Snow Leopard) since many weeks have elapsed; she uses Logos 4 Mac daily (nominally 5 windows open with a variety of resources and search, including Read Aloud).  If Logos 4 Mac not working for her, personally get an earful.  Watching memory usage in Activity Monitor, do have tendency to reboot Mac every few days.  Also appreciate current Logos 4 Mac is not usable for everyone.

This Logos 4 Mac forum history includes Alpha and Beta pre-releases.  Do remember a Logos 4 Mac Alpha pre-release that crashed every time (couple years ago).  Have noticed volume of Logos 4 Mac forum postings has dropped substantially (e.g. last 50 threads span 14 days vis Logos 4 Windows forum whose last 50 posts span 3 days), which includes reports of Logos 4 Mac crashes.

Over couple years, Thankful for numerous Logos 4 Mac improvements (also remember bi-weekly alpha pre-releases: felt like opening a gift every couple weeks).  Some issues, especially crash prone items that can be repeated, have been fixed faster than others.  For some things, likewise have no idea when for improvement on Mac and PC: e.g. Logos User Suggestion => Improve Logos 4 Menu Responsiveness (or when handouts will be revamped in Logos 4).  Likewise wonder about Logos improvements to be delivered over next few years.

Currently Logos 4 Mac is more crash prone on OS X Lion.  Thankful for Logos development insight about XCode 3 incompatibilities with XCode 4 (updated for OS X Lion).  Thankful for God's providence (anticipating gift of older MacBook Pro in few weeks), planning to use OS X Lion later this year and hopefully replicate some crash issues.

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Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 14 2011 8:46 PM

Thankfully the Apollo programmers had a can do attitude. We got to the moon in 72K of memory

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWcITjqZtpU

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 14 2011 9:00 PM

Larry Good:
Thankfully the Apollo programmers had a can do attitude. We got to the moon in 72K of memory

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 692
Otto S. Carroll | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 14 2011 9:55 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Currently Logos 4 Mac is more crash prone on OS X Lion.

I know experiences are varied from user to user, but I'm not having any issues, especially crashes, with Logos that I can attribute to using Lion.

__________

15" rMBP 2.6 GHz i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1.0 TB Flash Drive | OS X 10.12.3 | Logos 7.0 (7.3.0.0062)

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 17 2011 11:43 AM

Bob Pritchett:
Sorry, Joe... the problem is that I don't know the answer as to why specific bugs/regressions/partiy problems aren't fixed, so I tend to ignore them in my responses. I often don't get to the forum till late at night (like now!) or on the weekend, and I can't just pick up the phone and ask someone why "headings in passage list" aren't fixed. In fact, I'm not sure which team member to ask, so it's the kind of thing I need to walk over to the devs and ask around about.
I can appreciate that Bob.  I just wanted to make sure that the post I started was not lumped in as a generic "complaint" against the devs, just hoping to get some progress on a few specific bugs/regressions that have not been addressed in over a year (some closer to 6 months) that reduce the value of an otherwise excellent product.

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

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Mike S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 18 2011 2:44 PM

Joe Miller:

I just wanted to make sure that the post I started was not lumped in as a generic "complaint" against the devs, just hoping to get some progress on a few specific bugs/regressions that have not been addressed in over a year (some closer to 6 months) that reduce the value of an otherwise excellent product.

What he said!

Posts 8
Mike Bloomfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 19 2011 4:36 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

A poster on one of the other threads made a good point:

Mac's are still a very small part of Logos Sales, thus, as such a small marketshare footprint, I doubt we are going to see much improvement in the speed of changes.

 

I sure hope that's not their way of thinking. Logos claims there is no Mac or Windows version because the software is "multi-platform". I've tried it on both OSes and although the core Logos 4 engine is the same, there are very obvious differences in functionality and the Mac version is way behind. Someone needs to crack the whip because there are a lot more Mac users out there. Besides, the user minority shouldn't be looked down on as unimportant. As a Mac user I don't want the crumbs and if I'm going to get the crumbs why am I paying the price of a full platter? The software and book bundles are not cheap. If I pay the same as a windows user, I should get the same features as the windows user.

As far as Logos sales and market share goes, I hope Logos is doing this for the right reasons and not for the $$$$. I'm sure their intent is to further the gospel and aid in spiritual growth through better bible study tools. Their tools are excellent, but let's have some equality. If the Mac version is behind, make the effort to get it right.Big Smile

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 19 2011 6:31 PM

Looking back in this thread, noted Bob Pritchett's reply on 31 Oct 2011 included => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/40349/301147.aspx#301147

Bob Pritchett:

Sigh.

There's no conspiracy here. Yes, we make more money from Windows sales. But Mac is growing fast, and that may flip sometime in the near future. We did, however, have about 17 years head-start on the Windows side. So unless we make the Mac team 3-4 times larger than the Windows team, it'll be a bit behind.

To say we're ignoring the Mac, or aren't committed to the platform, is simply silly. Our iOS platform support is excellent and keeps advancing; we don't even have a Windows Phone version. And Proclaim (which is the first app we wrote that didn't have 17 years of Windows history already) has been in near lock-step parity all along the way.

For what it's worth, the client-side Mac team is (at my last inquiry) larger than the Windows team.

Mike Bloomfield:
The software and book bundles are not cheap.

In 2009, Logos changed licensing so software is $ 0.00 (free) for all platforms; pay once for resource licenses, then use on your desired devices.  Logos business model is funding software development on many platforms from ongoing resource purchases.

Mike Bloomfield:
I've tried it on both OSes and although the core Logos 4 engine is the same, there are very obvious differences in functionality and the Mac version is way behind.

Please elaborate what is behind, ideally start a new thread for each issue.  Wiki has Mac and PC User Interface Differences => Feature Parity segment that has been primarily gleaned from many forum discussions.  Thankful for Logos 4.5 Beta has improvements for 7 listed items.  Stable Logos 4.3 release provided reason to remove 6 items from feature parity list.  For past 9 months, Logos developers have implemented ~ 1.5 feature parity items per month.  If historical trend continues, should have reason to remove Feature Parity segment from wiki Mac and PC User Interface Differences sometime next year.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 27 2011 1:07 AM

Mike Bloomfield:
I sure hope that's not their way of thinking. Logos claims there is no Mac or Windows version because the software is "multi-platform". I've tried it on both OSes and although the core Logos 4 engine is the same, there are very obvious differences in functionality and the Mac version is way behind.

I have run and used just about every Bible software package there is over the last 15 years and actually multi-platformed Bible Software is something that is still not widespread in the industry. Not only that, but multi-platform now means supporting an array of handheld devices such as iOS, Android, Windows mobile, etc.

The good news is that four years ago we Mac users didn't have a way to run Logos.  The bad news is that the process to get to version 1.0 (which was based on Logos 3) was painful and took literally years. You can go read some of the forum posts in the Logos 1 forum to get a flavor of this. Sadly, the old Logos USENET newsgroup server was taken down unceremoniously a while back and it had a repository of even older stuff on this subject. (anyone else remember this service? Smile )

Without sounding like a fanboy, the Logos product has made huge strides in the last two years and many of us were starting to despair that we were ever going to see the Mac product get even as good as it is today. Based on some of the awesome Logos Mac Devs performance to date and the general growth of the Mac market, I can personally assure you that I think we are on course. (I have no connection to Logos, so I say this purely as a Bible software enthusiast)

If your temperament or patience to wait for the product to continue to mature is wearing thin, I would be happy offline to share experiences on another excellent Mac Bible product that I use every day. This would be the direction to go particularly if you have no need for multi-platform capabilities such as being able to use your library on Windows.

Hope this helps.

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2011 5:34 AM

Larry Good:

Thankfully the Apollo programmers had a can do attitude. We got to the moon in 72K of memory

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWcITjqZtpU

Ahhhh - but then they didn't have to code for a schizophrenic mega GUI, using a required cross-platform emulation layer running on top of yet another abstraction layer.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2011 12:54 PM

Donovan R. Palmer:
Sadly, the old Logos USENET newsgroup server was taken down unceremoniously a while back and it had a repository of even older stuff on this subject. (anyone else remember this service? Smile )

Not necessarily sad for me. Some of my most caustic posts were made in that medium as we waited for the appearance of Logos for Mac Embarrassed

Donovan R. Palmer:
I can personally assure you that I think we are on course. (I have no connection to Logos, so I say this purely as a Bible software enthusiast)

Yes (The star does not designate me as a Logos fan-boy. It simply means I post a lot and some of them seem to actually help others)

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2012 9:47 AM

Joe Miller:

For a long time, I have reported that some of the most basic functions just don't work.

For example, I cannot even organize the sub-folders in Favorites to organize them.  Of course, this is easily done in the Windows version, but Mac seems unable to find the time to fix this...

Even more significant is that the Passage List feature is virtually useless for teaching because section titles are missing and do not appear in the Mac version (as far as I know, the Windows version does work properly)...

I am pleased to find that both of these bugs/regressions were fixed in 4.5.  Thanks. On the downside, the Headers in the Passage list were fixed, but now it does not display multiple translations properly.  I am not sure who runs quality control, but significant feature regressions are being missed.

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Darren Huckey | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2012 2:02 PM

David Mitchell:
I've been working at Logos longer than we've had a Mac team. In fact, there was a time when I was the Mac team. During this time, we have been able to find and hire exactly one qualified candidate with prior professional Mac experience (he's on the Logos 4 team).

There has been no great exodus of Mac developers from Logos 4 to Proclaim. In fact, there's only one Mac developer on the Proclaim team who ever worked on the Mac version of Logos 4. All the others have picked it up as they've gone along—and they've done a splendid job.

Am I understanding this correctly to say that besides you, there is only one other Mac-native developer working for Logos? If so, that explains a lot of things.

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David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2012 9:11 PM

Darren Huckey:

David Mitchell:
I've been working at Logos longer than we've had a Mac team. In fact, there was a time when I was the Mac team. During this time, we have been able to find and hire exactly one qualified candidate with prior professional Mac experience (he's on the Logos 4 team).

There has been no great exodus of Mac developers from Logos 4 to Proclaim. In fact, there's only one Mac developer on the Proclaim team who ever worked on the Mac version of Logos 4. All the others have picked it up as they've gone along—and they've done a splendid job.

Am I understanding this correctly to say that besides you, there is only one other Mac-native developer working for Logos? If so, that explains a lot of things.

By no means! I thought that would have been quite clear from my repeated references to the Mac developers (plural) on both the Logos 4 and Proclaim teams. We have a number of incredibly talented people working with Apple technologies.

David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife

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MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2012 10:00 PM

David Mitchell:

Darren Huckey:

David Mitchell:
I've been working at Logos longer than we've had a Mac team. In fact, there was a time when I was the Mac team. During this time, we have been able to find and hire exactly one qualified candidate with prior professional Mac experience (he's on the Logos 4 team).

There has been no great exodus of Mac developers from Logos 4 to Proclaim. In fact, there's only one Mac developer on the Proclaim team who ever worked on the Mac version of Logos 4. All the others have picked it up as they've gone along—and they've done a splendid job.

Am I understanding this correctly to say that besides you, there is only one other Mac-native developer working for Logos? If so, that explains a lot of things.

By no means! I thought that would have been quite clear from my repeated references to the Mac developers (plural) on both the Logos 4 and Proclaim teams. We have a number of incredibly talented people working with Apple technologies.

The unfortunate part of this statement is that "Proclaim" was built with Apple programers that could have been working on the "Mother ship" Logos 4, making it function right.

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Michael Walton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 6:13 AM

A huge reason we were promoted to go with Logos at our sem was because it was dual platform. However, nothing has been more frustrating than the lack of basic features working, or features available on PC not being present in Mac. Logos even advertises that you can go from working on a Windows computer to a Mac computer seamlessly and that currently is not the cae. 

Posts 34
Darren Huckey | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 6:36 AM

Agreed. Thank you, Logos for continuing your Mac efforts. However, I have not been able to recommend Logos for Mac to my friends & colleagues because of the continued sluggish performance and the nature of persistent bugs. The 4.5 version seems to be packed full of bug-squashers, but we still have a long way to go. If the bug-fixes continue to be addressed as in the 4.5 update, I hope to be able to recommend Logos for Mac in the near future.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 7:11 AM

Michael Walton:

A huge reason we were promoted to go with Logos at our sem was because it was dual platform. However, nothing has been more frustrating than the lack of basic features working, or features available on PC not being present in Mac. Logos even advertises that you can go from working on a Windows computer to a Mac computer seamlessly and that currently is not the cae. 

Specifically, what would Logos 4 Mac improvement help you the most ?

Please elaborate what is frustrating; would like to replicate using Logos 4.5a Beta 1 on Mac and PC.  Wiki Mac and PC User Interface Differences => Feature Parity has items gathered from many forum discussions.  Several items have Logos User Voice suggestions: more votes helps business case for prioritization.

Darren Huckey:

Agreed. Thank you, Logos for continuing your Mac efforts. However, I have not been able to recommend Logos for Mac to my friends & colleagues because of the continued sluggish performance and the nature of persistent bugs. The 4.5 version seems to be packed full of bug-squashers, but we still have a long way to go. If the bug-fixes continue to be addressed as in the 4.5 update, I hope to be able to recommend Logos for Mac in the near future.

Please help me understand "we still have a long way to go" by elaborating what needs improvement  Curious what would be most helpful for you ?

Last month started thread => What's needed for better Bible Study ? Logos 4 Mac Feature Parity ?  From forum discussions this week, am aware of couple Logos 4.5 Mac users that want automatic hyperlink creation in Notes like PC has.

Logos User Voice suggestion => Improve Logos 4 Menu Responsiveness  For example, Logos 4.5 Search menu for choosing a collection has a noticeable lag from click until drop-down list available on Mac and PC

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