Help Save the Revelation Classic Commentaries
Currently on $160 and stuck there, but the $50 bids just need a little push:
http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation
Comments
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I'm already in at $50. [:)]
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Dean053 said:
Currently on $160 and stuck there, but the $50 bids just need a little push:
http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation
I think they need a BIG push. [:D]
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I think you're right - I don't think it has moved in weeks. I'll try not to get my hopes up to high for this one.
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There is no way I'll pay $150 or so for sets like this. Best to bid $50 or so, and forget about it for a year or two. Using that method, it seems I'm going to get "Great Texts of the Bible" for $30 when its in paper form in a shop for $250 and so large as to take up half the known universe.
If we push too hard and fast on something, all that happens is we pay too much!
There! Thats my cheap-skate method on books. However, its a shock to find that 100 books at $50 is still 5000! Ops! [:S]
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I took George Somsel's advice on this quite some time ago and placed a bid for $50 (U.S.) which in reality is the highest that I can go at this time anyhow. It may take quite some time but Barne's finally made it out of community pricing so that proves there is always hope until Logos just gives up completely and pulls it off the site. [Y]
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This commentary set has a half dozen posts on trying to get people motivated to bid. I know George had a plea to bid $50, because not many would actually bid the $160 minimum opening bid posted.
I am in for $50, so I will wait it out, and hopefully others jump on board!
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I didn't notice Fenton Hort was included, specifically concentrating on the greek and published after his death.
After I spent a lot of time analyzing Rev's greek patterns, I moved on. Maybe time to come back. $50.
Trying to move the max-price from $160 to $50 is going to be tough - need 3 $50's for each $160.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise Barnhart said:
Trying to move the max-price from $160 to $50 is going to be tough - need 3 $50's for each $160.
Observation: 5 bids of $ 160 = $ 800, which needs 16 bids of $ 50 to match (bit more than 3 to 1), 17 bids of $ 50 is more than $ 800.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Observation: 5 bids of $ 160 = $ 800, which needs 16 bids of $ 50 to match (bit more than 3 to 1), 17 bids of $ 50 is more than $ 800.
Don't forget that the $160 bids are factored in at the lower prices as well.
When people lower their price point to $50, the progress at $50 doesn't change - only the shape of the curve past that point. Perhaps there is a psychological benefit of seeing $50 as the highest peak, but otherwise, what we really need are NEW bids.
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Garrett Ho said:
When people lower their price point to $50, the progress at $50 doesn't change - only the shape of the curve past that point. Perhaps there is a psychological benefit of seeing $50 as the highest peak, but otherwise, what we really need are NEW bids.
Lets try an EXPERIMENT. Everyone with a bid at $160 please lower your bid to $50. Then we will watch and see if the NEW bids come in. [[three new bids for every lowered 160 bid]] If at the end of a month nothing has happened [[many new bids at 50]] then they are free to reset their bids back up to $160 and wait and wait and wait. [[problem is that too many of the $160 bids are NOT by regular forum readers and thus they will not try this experiment]] [[the consensus is that those 160 bids are keeping other out of the game]]
re: psychological benefit ==> fits budget and can buy
[[private note to the 160 bidders - Yes, we saw your comments that the hard copy versions are worth the 160 plus]]
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I've been at $50 for a while, lowered mine back when this strategy was first proposed. The peak at $50 has definitely gone up (perhaps even doubled) but it is not yet higher than the $160 peak, so it shows up red on my bidding page. This can be scary for folks who really want to be sure they get this set if it goes into production, so some might not have the guts to leave their bid down at $50 very long. But rest assured: it will still take a while for this to get into pre-pub, and I'm pretty sure (though can't remember positively) that you will get an email alerting you if bidding on this set is going to close soon and you're at risk of not getting it because your bid is too low. At that point you can raise your bid back up. So you've really got nothing to lose by lowering your bid to $50 right now.
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Garrett Ho said:
Perhaps there is a psychological benefit of seeing $50 as the highest peak, but otherwise, what we really need are NEW bids.
I think that's the key here. The high point at $160 scares people off who are never going to be willing to pay that much.
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My lower bid is in too.
This was one of the first sets, so likely few first-time bidders realized we could push these into production for $30-$60
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Dean053 said:
Currently on $160 and stuck there, but the $50 bids just need a little push:
http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation
Already in at $50... need a big push--new bidders...
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
I'm in for $50! [:D]
iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8
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Dean053
Do we have any idea (or any way to get an idea) of how much the publisher wants for this resource? Community pricing cannot get below this value. LOGOS must realize that most of the sales of this resource (with an estimated price tag of $775) will be fro the pre pub folks, so they need to avoid losing to much money on this part of the deal. That said, my $50 bid is in.
Bob - 17" MBP quad 2.3GHz 4GB and iMAC
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The Classic Commentaries series are typically all public domain works.
What you pay for is the labor of Logos employees to scan/OCR the material, format it to work with Logos features, and proof-read/validate that work
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Garrett Ho said:
Observation: 5 bids of $ 160 = $ 800, which needs 16 bids of $ 50 to match (bit more than 3 to 1), 17 bids of $ 50 is more than $ 800.
Don't forget that the $160 bids are factored in at the lower prices as well.
When people lower their price point to $50, the progress at $50 doesn't change - only the shape of the curve past that point. Perhaps there is a psychological benefit of seeing $50 as the highest peak, but otherwise, what we really need are NEW bids.
Apologies [:$] since had missed factoring $ 160 bids at lower price. If 5 bids of $ 160 are placed then 12 more bids at $ 50 is needed to change community price point from $ 160 to $ 50. Currently appears enough $ 160 bids have been placed to cover ~ 50 % of estimated production cost, with additional bids at $ 50 that only covers ~ 37 % of estimated production cost. If existing $ 50 bidders increased amount to $ 90, suspect community price would change from $ 160 to $ 90 (about ~ $ 3.33 per volume with discount over 90 % compared to retail). Other way for community price to drop is enough $ 160 bidders reducing their bids (hoping for lower price to encourage more bidders).
Concur many more new bids are needed. Also raised my $ 50 bid.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I noticed that when the Classic Commentaries on Ephesians came out they had a suggested price at $170.00, today it was down to $40.00 for the set.
I am wondering if Logos is locked in at the $160.00 price or could they change it like they did the Ephesian set.
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Kenneth Neighoff said:
I am wondering if Logos is locked in at the $160.00 price or could they change it like they did the Ephesian set.
Actually Logos is not changing the price, but we do by our bids. An automated routine works the "demand-curve" and updates it in realtime, as is explained on the CP help page.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NewbieMick said:Kenneth Neighoff said:
I am wondering if Logos is locked in at the $160.00 price or could they change it like they did the Ephesian set.
Actually Logos is not changing the price, but we do by our bids. An automated routine works the "demand-curve" and updates it in realtime, as is explained on the CP help page.
I know that the CP price is set by our bids, what I was saying was that the Ephesians collection of Classic Commentaries was suggested at $170.00 one day and the next day or so was at $40. So what I was asking was could not Logos change the suggested price from $160 to $50, as many people are suggesting to see how that affects the bids.
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Kenneth Neighoff said:NewbieMick said:Kenneth Neighoff said:
I am wondering if Logos is locked in at the $160.00 price or could they change it like they did the Ephesian set.
Actually Logos is not changing the price, but we do by our bids. An automated routine works the "demand-curve" and updates it in realtime, as is explained on the CP help page.
I know that the CP price is set by our bids, what I was saying was that the Ephesians collection of Classic Commentaries was suggested at $170.00 one day and the next day or so was at $40. So what I was asking was could not Logos change the suggested price from $160 to $50, as many people are suggesting to see how that affects the bids.
There is no such thing as a "suggested" price. All Logos does is set an allowable bidding range which seems reasonable to them based on their anticipated costs and expected interest in the resource. Then we start bidding. The projected price is the current most likely price to succeed in getting over the 100% mark; that is, it's the current price where the highest peak in the chart is. This can and does change as bidding proceeds. It is totally a function of our bidding, based on some internal formula, and is not something that Logos sets manually.
The bidding range for both the Ephesians set and the Revelation set is $10 to $170. The most likely reason the Ephesians one jumped from $170 down to $40 in one day is that the first bidder bid $170, setting the "projected" peak there arbitrarily to begin with, and then at least 5 bidders bid $40 (which would push the peak at $40 up higher than the peak at $170).
The first few days after bidding opens, the projected price is very volatile so it's wise not to pay much attention to it until things settle down.
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There doesn't appear to be any movement on these. I hope those who bidded $160 realize that these commentaries will never get into publication unless they lower their bids.
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One or 2 resources have appeared with the lowest price that you can bid something ridiculous like $40 or 50, maybe more. I just don't bid till they lower the minimum. I'm not going to be dictated to about how high I must bid.
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Has anyone else noticed that *most* CP resources make it out on the third price point from the left (yes, sometimes its the fourth). Nearly all of them fall this way.
...our latest outlier has been the Swinnock collection
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If everybody in at $50 changed it to $80, we could move this. It wouldn't hurt to try, and no-one is locked in to any bidding they make. This would hopeful stimulate enough interest that it could be brought down to around $50.
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I'm in at $51 (bid on Nov. 3, 2011). How did that happen?
What I have noticed, but do not understand, is how on so many pre-pubs I have bid what it was expected to go for, but now I am way too low. It seems that the costs go up considerably from the first time they are listed.
Core i7-2630QM CPU 2.00 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 64-Bit Windows 7 Professional SP1
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I am in at $160 although I hope and expect that if it goes to PrePub it will be much lower. I really hope people jump in at $50 or $60, Revelation is one of the most misunderstood and difficult books of the Bible. We could all use the help!!!
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You do realize I hope that you can bid lower and yet still have a chance to get the resource for whatever price wins out.
For example, you could lower your bid to $50 - if, when it comes time for the item to close, the winning price is $100, you have about a week to up your bid - and I believe you get notified by Logos when bidding is about to close.
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Looking at http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation progress:
Noticed $ 160 bids currently cover bit more than half of anticipated production costs. If many new bids were placed at $ 90 (along with existing bids moving from $ 160 to $ 90 and from $ 50 to $ 90), then resource amount would drop to $ 90 (bit over 90 % off retail for 27 volumes with 12,448 pages) and hopefully entice more bidding so final closing price could be: $ 50 to $ 80.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Randal M Lane said:
You do realize I hope that you can bid lower and yet still have a chance to get the resource for whatever price wins out.
I sure do - I also realize the opposite is true. For 27 volumes on Revelation in this series I would pay $160. It's almost halfway there at that price. You should bid the highest you are willing to pay.
If everyone bids $50 knowing they will go to $100 if it closes at $100, then the resource may never get into publication because you need double the people to bid at $50. Assuming others will bid enough to get it into production doesn't always work
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Dominick Sela said:
I sure do - I also realize the opposite is true. For 27 volumes on Revelation in this series I would pay $160. It's almost halfway there at that price. You should bid the highest you are willing to pay.
If everyone bids $50 knowing they will go to $100 if it closes at $100, then the resource may never get into publication because you need double the people to bid at $50. Assuming others will bid enough to get it into production doesn't always work
But conversely, most of us (myself included) are not willing to pay $160. I wouldn't be willing to even pay $100, though I would bid that amount to try to get the price down in order to generate more interest. Right now it seems that people are frightened off by the high price though.
Maybe you're right and this thing will slowly get there at the price it's at, but I personally doubt that very much, especially since all the works are public domain and available freely in pdf.
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Tommy Miller said:
I'm in at $51 (bid on Nov. 3, 2011). How did that happen?
Where are you from? I've only seen this happen when you bid in a foreign currency and the exchange rate changes.
Tommy Miller said:What I have noticed, but do not understand, is how on so many pre-pubs I have bid what it was expected to go for, but now I am way too low. It seems that the costs go up considerably from the first time they are listed.
I have never seen the cost go up after listing -- well, possibly in the first hour or so, but not later -- so that too sounds like a currency conversion issue. Usually best to bid in dollars, because that's what you're going to have to pay in.
Or, wait, I just noticed you said "prepubs". You don't bid for prepubs, you bid for CPs. Then, when the CP has gone through the process and closed at a final price, it is moved over to prepub, and, yes, at that moment the price does go up considerably. That's why it's so important to make sure you've locked in the CP price before it closes. Bidding $25 for a CP that closes at $30, and then buying it at prepub for $150 is not a very smart move...
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Dean053 said:
But conversely, most of us (myself included) are not willing to pay $160. I wouldn't be willing to even pay $100, though I would bid that amount to try to get the price down in order to generate more interest. Right now it seems that people are frightened off by the high price though.
Maybe you're right and this thing will slowly get there at the price it's at, but I personally doubt that very much, especially since all the works are public domain and available freely in pdf.
Which gets us back to my point - if everyone pays the most they are willing to pay, it will work itself out - the resource either gets into PrePub, at the price that pays for the production and enough people are willing to buy, or it doesn't. I did not say I bid $160 because I think it will go at that price. I bid $160 because I am willing to pay that Others should bid what they are willing to pay, it's that simple.
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Dominick Sela said:
Which gets us back to my point - if everyone pays the most they are willing to pay, it will work itself out - the resource either gets into PrePub, at the price that pays for the production and enough people are willing to buy, or it doesn't. I did not say I bid $160 because I think it will go at that price. I bid $160 because I am willing to pay that Others should bid what they are willing to pay, it's that simple.
It's that simple if you don't mind it not ever going into publication because it's frightening lower bidders off. Why not bid that price after a lower price has been established - that way you get your price you are determined to bid on, and everyone else gets a reasonably priced resource on their computer.
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My sympathies also. Especially since these are all public-domain books. No royalties get paid o anyone.
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I was just wondering what the bid strategy would be if you paid your highest bid when the total of all highest bids paid the needed costs? If your highest bid was 170 you would pay 170. If your highest bid was 50 you would pay 50. If $1 you would get it for $1. If you dropped out and did not buy and then latter tried to buy the book your price would be your highest bid. The starting Pre Pub price would be the higher of the Average bid and the Mean bid.
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Time to get the ole dictionary out (mean / average).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Dominick Sela said:
I bid $160 because I am willing to pay that
And others (like me) may be voting $50 with our feet... that's all we'd pay... (YMMV)[:)]
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
David Ames said:
If you dropped out and did not buy and then latter tried to buy the book your price would be your highest bid. The starting Pre Pub price would be the higher of the Average bid and the Mean bid.
Observation: if drop out of bidding (and miss community price closing), then later want to purchase, anticipate pre-publication increases that range from 57 % to 700 % (based on current pre-publications under development for community pricing). After resource ships, price typically increased again that ranges from 108 % to 1,566 % (compared to community price closing: one resource that closed for $ 20 now is $ 229.95 while another that closed at $ 6 is now $ 89.95, yet a third resource closed at $ 9 now is $ 149.95). Later, Logos may offer a sale that is below pre-publication price (know of a couple instances, vast majority of sale prices are more than pre-publication price).
With retail value of $ 934.95 not know what increase to anticipate compared to community pricing close (if enough bids are placed by Logos community).
Denise Barnhart said:Time to get the ole dictionary out (mean / average).
May want to look up median too. Noticed one dictionary meaning for average (noun) is mean. Likewise one dictionary mean (adjective) meaning is average.
Looking at http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation, appears many Logos users are willing to pay $ 160 (noticed progress up a bit since yesterday). If enough $ 160 bids are placed, initial closing price would be $ 160 then would need more bids to reduce $ 160 (e.g. 6.25 % more bids at $ 150 or $ 160 would reduce price to $ 150, while price reduction to $ 80 needs 100 % more bids than $ 160).
As stated on Logos Community Pricing page: "Click on the highest price you'd pay. If the final price is lower, that's what you'll pay."
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Probably the system would work better if 'Bid the highest price you think the community might actually PAY.
But first, us Americans, anyway, don't bid for anyone but ourselves!!
And second, it would completely obfuscate the process further.
I think the main reason CP isn't the number one way to build a library is because it's confusing. I avoided it for a long time due to what looked like complicated rules. I notice that continues to be a challenge for many.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise Barnhart said:
I think the main reason CP isn't the number one way to build a library is because it's confusing.
Since September 1st, from books released and available for use you could buy 146 books for $257. Measured in terms of cost per book, CP is clearly the number one way to build a library, if you care about cost per book. What is your criteria for #1 way to build a library?
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Dominick Sela said:
if you care about cost per book. What is your criteria for #1 way to build a library?
If cost per book is my criteria, I can always go for the books-by-the-foot decorating scheme. Unfortunately, my number one way to build a library is to purchase books that are on subjects that are missing to lightly covered or books that are required for a particular project. With any money left in my budget, I can look for enjoyable bargains or things that I think pushing into production is in Logos' (and my) best interests.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Dominick ... maybe MY comment was confusing!
I'm agreeing with you (CP is best way). But with such a large Logos user base, some of these CP resources should get 'bid out' almost instantly (instead of sitting in some cases for years).
Some of these of wide enough value that they should be going out the door at 1/3 to 1/2 of present prices (i.e. much more interest).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Tommy Miller said:
I'm in at $51 (bid on Nov. 3, 2011). How did that happen?
fgh said:Where are you from? I've only seen this happen when you bid in a foreign currency and the exchange rate changes.
I am from the foreign State of Wyoming (that's a little east of Logos headquarters, but still in the US [;)]), and we still use US dollars here. I did make two mistakes in my post, however. The $51 bid was entered on Nov. 3, 2010 (not 2011) as I mistyped in my first post. At that time, $51 was on the chart as the projected price. But like so many of my other CPs (mistake number two is that I labeled them "prepubs" in my first post), the projected prices have gone up on many of the ones that I had bid on over a year ago. For example, a few months back, when I was really watching these closely, I only had two or three bids in red (slated as potential failures). Now I have 24 in red. I believe the projected prices have gone up, not down, as more people have placed bids in the past 12 months.
But the real puzzle is not that the economy of a particular CP resource changes as more people bid, or change bids. The real question is why the scale itself changed from $51 (in Nov. 2010) to even ten dollar increments a year later. It seems that Logos made that change on their end.
Core i7-2630QM CPU 2.00 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 64-Bit Windows 7 Professional SP1
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Tommy Miller said:
But the real puzzle is not that the economy of a particular CP resource changes as more people bid, or change bids. The real question is why the scale itself changed from $51 (in Nov. 2010) to even ten dollar increments a year later. It seems that Logos made that change on their end.
Yes, Logos does sometimes change the scale (the low end, high end, and/or increments), but that's relatively rare. They might respond to complaints on the forum that the scale is way too high and unreasonable for such a public domain resource, or maybe there's some other reason that causes them to sometimes change the possible bidding range.
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This set has nudged up a small amount on the $50 bid, but needs a much bigger push to get it above the stagnant $160, and hopefully renew interest in this great collection.
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Dean053 said:
This set has nudged up a small amount on the $50 bid, but needs a much bigger push to get it above the stagnant $160, and hopefully renew interest in this great collection.
I predict that the Revelation Collection will go over the top achieving an excess of the "cost of publication" in December, 2110.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Hi George,
I'm working on ESL as my primary language... (LOL) Would you mind translating what you said?Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0
said:
