Black Friday Sale

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Alan Charles Gielczyk | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 9:26 AM

I agree with the pricing issue. It is annoying to see a % off when the product NEVER sells for the retail price. I think most, here at least, are aware of this and there is no benefit to Logos. If there are people out there who are being taken in by this practice and believe they actually are getting 80% off, or whatever, then the question becomes one of ethics. Were I running this company, and believe me no one wants that, Bob does an amazing job, I would never even post the retail price. I would post the highest price the product ever sells for as retail. 

Having said that I love Logos and can't begin to fathom how people ever made it through seminary without it, and some still do! I too find all the Black Friday sales uninteresting but that is preference. How many of you will walk into Best Buy or Wal-Mart today and say "But I wanted the HP i7, 12GB, 1.5TB laptop to be on sale?" It is up to the company what they put on sale and up to us to buy it or not, not to spend all day lamenting the fact that our wanted item is not on the list.

Posts 889
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 10:44 AM

Alan Charles Gielczyk:
How many of you will walk into Best Buy or Wal-Mart today and say "But I wanted the HP i7, 12GB, 1.5TB laptop to be on sale?" It is up to the company what they put on sale and up to us to buy it or not, not to spend all day lamenting the fact that our wanted item is not on the list.

Yes

"I read dead people..."

Posts 450
Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 10:53 AM

Brother Mark:

Alan Charles Gielczyk:
How many of you will walk into Best Buy or Wal-Mart today and say "But I wanted the HP i7, 12GB, 1.5TB laptop to be on sale?" It is up to the company what they put on sale and up to us to buy it or not, not to spend all day lamenting the fact that our wanted item is not on the list.

Yes

But I wanted that MAC Book Pro 17" fully loaded to be on sale for $599 :D

Posts 1931
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 11:03 AM

Alan Charles Gielczyk:
I agree with the pricing issue. It is annoying to see a % off when the product NEVER sells for the retail price.

I completely agree. I don't feel mislead, but rather it is a practical issue. If I don't buy in this sale, I need to know exactly how much it is going to cost me on Tuesday at the regular price which is never the full price. I can sometimes find this information on cached website pages, but not always. Sad

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 11:10 AM

Denise Barnhart:
But the point does remain ... you pastors need to remember your kids! While they were busily ignoring you, some day they'll want to listen.

Thanks for the advice Denise. Will come in handy when/if mine start to ignore me.

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 93
Fab | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 11:19 AM

Hey everyone, finally I guess I'm going to get some help to get the Reference Bundle (39 volumes).

My question is : The description says that "You’ll also get important collections like the 16-volume Theology and Doctrine Collection, the 7-volume Early Church History Collection, and the 5-volume Eerdmans Bible Reference Collection", why then, these are not in the list below the Description? When are they shipping ? 

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 11:23 AM

Alan Charles Gielczyk:
How many of you will walk into Best Buy or Wal-Mart today and say "But I wanted the HP i7, 12GB, 1.5TB laptop to be on sale?" It is up to the company what they put on sale and up to us to buy it or not, not to spend all day lamenting the fact that our wanted item is not on the list.

Funny thing, before the "big box" lifestyle took over the world, every major purchase was a matter of dickering back and forth.

I still remember my uncle in Sears, years ago, buying a washing machine, and how him and the salesman kept writing numbers down on a little piece of paper until they came to a mutually agreed upon price.

But the same thing holds true here today, if you form a relationship with a Logos sales person...

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 10539
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 11:49 AM

Good question Fabrice.

I looked at the listed titles, the actual book descriptions, and then the collections. I couldn't get the numbers to add up. Chances are there's overlap between the three groups.

Absent being a trusting soul, you have today and Monday to query Logos customer service (assuming that's do-able)?

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 10539
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 12:55 PM

Michael, today I just got another catalog from C-Company. I bought 1 book from them (I think; I don't remember) and now I receive the 'preferred customer' catalog (which was just days after the smaller but apparently 'regular' customer mailing).

Anyway, out of curiousity while eating lunch, I jotted down their 'retail' price vs what they're calling they're 'preferred price' (which looks very similar to their regular price a few days back).

Anyhow .... I was going to do a reasonably sized sample just to see how Logos compares to C-Company (the latter being paper books).

I didn't get far before I quit (using what's called 'Discovery Sampling'; I used to do bunches of samplings, with the Discover method designed for laziness).

I compared Pulpit Commentary, Shaeffer's 5-volume (BF sale for Logos),   MacArthurs NT Commentary , Babylonian Talmud by Neusner .

Don't want to violate the forum guidance rules, but in a nutshell, it's hard to say who is more interesting. On two, they literally matched within pennies (both retail and 'real' price). On the third, Logos 'retail' was well below C-Company's 'retail' (though higher than C-Company's real price). Logos 'real' price however, was lower than C-Company's 'preferred' price (!)). And on the fourth, Logos 'retail' price was far higher than C-Company, with the Logos 'real' price being substantially higher than C-Company's 'preferred' price (which I think is appropriate given Logos' heavy cross-referencing).

This is all obviously confusing, and maybe that's the goal. I stopped at 4 items having concluded that actually 'saving money' probably wasn't reflected in either company's marketing copy. Each proposed purchase would have to be researched.

On the BF sale, I agree that access to Logos' 'regular' price was needed. On Lenski, I relied on Logos' inclusion and Matthew's assurance it was a good price. I sure better see a higher price on Tuesday or Santa's going to hear about Matthew being on the 'naughty' side!

 

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 12:56 PM

Fabrice de Almeida:
why then, these are not in the list below the Description?
I hope this helps:

Black Friday Reference Bundle $399.95 includes these individual resources and all bold-faced Collections below:

  1.     A Student's Guide to Textual Criticism of the Bible  $13.95
  2.     Ancient Near Eastern Texts     $79.95
  3.     Dictionary of Christianity in America  $44.95
  4.     Historic Creeds and Confessions  $9.95
  5.     International Standard Bible Encyclopedia  $129.95
  6.     The Dead Sea Scrolls Study Edition: Vol. I: 1Q1–4Q273–Vol. II: 4Q274–11Q31  $89.95
  7.     The Encyclopedia of Christianity, vols. 1–5  $349.95

Early Church History Collection (7 vols.)  $115 complete and includes all 7 of the following:

  1.    A New Eusebius: Documents Illustrating the History of the Church to AD 337, 2nd ed.  $29.95
  2.    Creeds, Councils and Controversies: Documents Illustrating the History of the Church, AD 337–461, New Edition  $33.95
  3.    Worship in the Early Church   $13.00
  4.    A Short History of the Early Church  $16.00
  5.    The Religious Context of Early Christianity: A Guide to Graeco-Roman Religions  $34.00
  6.    New Testament Times  $29.99
  7.    Meet Paul: An Encounter with the Apostle  $6.48

Eerdmans Bible Reference Collection (5 vols.) $89.95  complete and includes all 5 of the following:    

  1.   Old Testament Survey: The Message, Form, and Background of the Old Testament  $50.00
  2.   A Basic Bibliographic Guide for New Testament Exegesis, 2nd ed.  $9.95
  3.   God's Plan of the Ages: A Comprehensive View of God's Great Plan from Eternity to Eternity, 3rd ed.  $18.00
  4.   The Last Things: An Eschatology for Laymen  $14.00
  5.   The Making of the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible  $9.95

Theology and Doctrine Collection (16 vols.)  $209.95 complete and includes all 16 the following:

  1.  God and the Future: Wolfhart Pannenberg's Eschatological Doctrine of God  $156.00
  2.  Aquinas on Doctrine: A Critical Introduction  $168.00
  3.  Faith in the Millennium  $180.00
  4.  Forgiveness in Context: Theology and Psychology in Creative Dialogue  $156
  5.  Captured by the Crucified: The Practical Theology of Austin Farrer  $32.95
  6.  Ascension and Ecclesia  $72.00
  7.  The Gift of the World: An Introduction to the Theology of Dumitru Staniloae  $41.95
  8.  Justification: The Heart of the Christian Faith  $72.00
  9.  Barth's Moral Theology: Human Action in Barth’s Thought  $84.00
  10.  The Shape of Pneumatology: Studies in the Doctrine of the Holy Spirit  $72.00
  11.  Naming the Silences: God, Medicine, and the Problem of Suffering  $49.95
  12.  Creatio Ex Nihilo: The Doctrine of ‘Creation out of Nothing’ in Early Christian Thought  $72.00
  13.  Resurrection  $70.00
  14.  Studies in Early Christology  $84.00
  15.  The Future as God's Gift: Explorations in Christian Eschatology  $72.00
  16.  The Doctrine of Creation: Essays in Dogmatics, History and Philosophy    $72.00

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 1:04 PM

Denise Barnhart:
On Lenski, I relied on Logos' inclusion and Matthew's assurance it was a good price. I sure better see a higher price on Tuesday or Santa's going to hear about Matthew being on the 'naughty' side!

Devil Santa already knows I am naughty. I looked at my invoice for Lenski on Feb 13th 2011 and see I paid $20 more than the Black Friday sale price. If memory serves me well, the regular selling price of Lenski in February was $299. I do know it was a good deal at $119.99. So I would guess Lenski will bounce back up to around $280 or higher.  To me, the Lenski set is the best value outside of the Master Bundel. I have too many of the undle contents to make it tempting. If I did not have Lenski already, that is the one I would go for.     Just sayin' .....

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 10539
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 1:13 PM

Yes ... your numbers sound right. I've no plans for a call to the North Pole to double the naughtiness report.

But on the BF Reference bundle, I count 35 in your list. But '39' listed as volumes in the advert.

I know EncyChristianity is 5 volumes but then ISBE is multivolume too. I didn't try the others; I could easily be wrong.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 128
Simon Pleasants | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 2:01 PM

James Alexander:

Does anyone know what the regular Logos price is for the A.W. Tozer Collction?

It looks like the Tozer collection sold for $399.95 previously. So it's effectively a saving of 53% compared to its regular price.

To check an earlier price on Logos, do a search on Google for the resource and look at the cached image of the page:

 

 

"Upon a life I did not live, Upon a death I did not die, Another's life, another's death, I stake my whole eternity"

Horatius Bonar

Posts 93
Fab | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 2:12 PM

Oh okay, thanks for the explanation Super Tramp, it helps of course. I just didn't make the link between the "Theology and Doctrine Collection" and its individual titles ... but now I got it! :-)

Btw how is it that God and the Future: Wolfhart Pannenberg's Eschatological Doctrine of God is $156 for ... 288 pages !? and Aquinas on Doctrine, $168 for ... 296 pages !? What is so special with these that they are so expensive? 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 2:22 PM

Fabrice de Almeida:
Btw how is it that God and the Future: Wolfhart Pannenberg's Eschatological Doctrine of God is $156 for ... 288 pages !? and Aquinas on Doctrine, $168 for ... 296 pages !? What is so special with these that they are so expensive? 

Aquinas on Doctrine is my favorite example of quirky pricing. It is super-expensive on it's own. I got it with the 2010 Christmas Master Collection for an average book price of $1.35, (I think.) It is one of those scholarly works that is priced like that on Amazon for the paper version. Could be a licensing issue. Confused

Fabrice de Almeida:
I just didn't make the link between the "Theology and Doctrine Collection" and its individual titles ... but now I got it! :-)

It would make it a lot easier for myself and Praiser if Logos would list the included Collections. I process information in sets. Logos does a very good job at grouping similar titles into specific categories, creating new "Collections" and bundles..

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 2:35 PM

Denise Barnhart:
But on the BF Reference bundle, I count 35 in your list. But '39' listed as volumes in the advert.

The Dead Sea Scrolls Study Edition: Vol. I: 1Q1–4Q273–Vol. II: 4Q274–11Q31  $89.95 is actually two resources but not divided by volume number as you might think. In my library there is the "Transcription" resource and then the "Translation" resource.

I'd find the others but I keep getting pulled away from the computer.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 2:43 PM

Simon Pleasants:
James Alexander:
Does anyone know what the regular Logos price is for the A.W. Tozer Collction?
It looks like the Tozer collection sold for $399.95 previously. So it's effectively a saving of 53% compared to its regular price.

The Black Friday Sale price is lower than the Pre-Pub price when this first shipped! Indifferent I gave $192.95 for it on May 29th 2008. So if you want sales based on original Pre-Pub pricing, buy it so Logos brings us more.   

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 4:01 PM

I guess the old saying "A bargain is only a bargain if you can afford it," applies here for me. I'm passing this year. The bottomless wallet some forum users seem to have still amazes me.

Posts 549
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 4:08 PM

The 

Bob Schlessman:

The bottomless wallet some forum users seem to have still amazes me.

Amen!Amen!Amen!

Posts 2831
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 5:17 PM

 

 

D

Denise Barnhart:

Michael, today I just got another catalog from C-Company. I bought 1 book from them (I think; I don't remember) and now I receive the 'preferred customer' catalog (which was just days after the smaller but apparently 'regular' customer mailing).

Anyway, out of curiousity while eating lunch, I jotted down their 'retail' price vs what they're calling they're 'preferred price' (which looks very similar to their regular price a few days back).

Anyhow .... I was going to do a reasonably sized sample just to see how Logos compares to C-Company (the latter being paper books).

I didn't get far before I quit (using what's called 'Discovery Sampling'; I used to do bunches of samplings, with the Discover method designed for laziness).

I compared Pulpit Commentary, Shaeffer's 5-volume (BF sale for Logos),   MacArthurs NT Commentary , Babylonian Talmud by Neusner .

Don't want to violate the forum guidance rules, but in a nutshell, it's hard to say who is more interesting. On two, they literally matched within pennies (both retail and 'real' price). On the third, Logos 'retail' was well below C-Company's 'retail' (though higher than C-Company's real price). Logos 'real' price however, was lower than C-Company's 'preferred' price (!)). And on the fourth, Logos 'retail' price was far higher than C-Company, with the Logos 'real' price being substantially higher than C-Company's 'preferred' price (which I think is appropriate given Logos' heavy cross-referencing).

This is all obviously confusing, and maybe that's the goal. I stopped at 4 items having concluded that actually 'saving money' probably wasn't reflected in either company's marketing copy. Each proposed purchase would have to be researched.

On the BF sale, I agree that access to Logos' 'regular' price was needed. On Lenski, I relied on Logos' inclusion and Matthew's assurance it was a good price. I sure better see a higher price on Tuesday or Santa's going to hear about Matthew being on the 'naughty' side!

Denise,

As always you bring light where there was only heat.  Thanks for going to the trouble.

I feel certain that Logos marketing only follows the secular pattern, which means they are deceptive.  I understand that companies aren't Christian.  People are.  But Christians in business should not allow the world to set the standard for their honesty.  It is a poor witness to be deceptive, whether everyone else deceives or not.  Logos is no more, and sadly no less, deceptive than any other company, including other Christian book sellers.

I also believe that Logos is a company founded and owned by fine Christian people, who run it both as a business and a ministry.  I have been a Logos customer over 16 years and will be one for the rest of my life.  I do not think they set out be deceptive in their advertising and promotions.  I think they slipped gradually into deceptive practices that are the rule of thumb in their industry.  I do not believe they have thought through the implications of it all.

Since I have been a Logos customer so long and have invested thousands of dollars beyond my base package, I am not likely to go away.  And since I am incredibly hard-headed and a little arrogant, I am not likely to stop complaining if I believe deception is being attempted.  But I will try to do so less frequently.

I continue to recommend Logos to my fellow ministers and church members as the best Bible software available.  Though I now have to warn them to watch out for the deceit in the advertising.

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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