not THAT valuable

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Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 7:52 AM

Terry Poperszky:
just like there are people that frequent all you can eat buffets. Wink

Hey, watch that!  We here at Fatties United take umbrage at being slighted.  Big Smile  Wink  (Actually, I'd like to lose some weight, but I wouldn't call myself fat—at least not obese (my doctor might disagree).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 10:02 AM

Joshua G:
Please explain how a Kindle e-book commentary on John is on the same equal playing field as a fully tagged and formatted Logos commentary on John.

<sarcasm> Joshua, Joshua, you did an amazing job of avoiding answering my arguments and went off on a tangent. A+ for your logic and debate skills! </sarcasm>

Let's just talk about the resources in question, shall we. 3 Counseling volumes. 

 

From: Biblical Counseling Collection (30 vols.).

Competent to Counsel

The Christian Counselor's Manual

A Theology of Christian Counseling

 

 

Super Tramp:
I assure you most $30 screw drivers (Snap-on, Mac, Cooper, etc) are in reality superior to a Craftsman tool in every way,  Wink

Again, I know you are not driving your large family in a BMW SUV, do you? But why? BMW is superior to (insert your family car here) in EVERY WAY (emphasis mine to prove the point - "a better tool doth not a better experience make")

Having Logos edition of books versus Kindle will not make you a better counselor. Superior house will not make your marriage better. 

Super Tramp:
Anything and everything you can do with a Kindle book, I can do with a Logos book (except run it on the Kindle.)

This is a typical fan-boy response: ill-informed and proud. Let's talk about facts, shall we? 

 

  • Can you highlight and notate a Logos book in a browser?, Android device? You can with Kindle resource.
  • Can you read Logos books on Blackberry, Windows7 Phone?   You can Kindle resources.
  • and let's not forget the e-ink screens.  Kindle resources could be read natively on e-Ink. Before someone says that Logos title can be converted and sent to Kindle, the opposite is true (although of questionable legality: Kindle title can be converted to a PBB, tagged and made into a searchable Logos resource)
  • Price - Kindle resources are typically MUCH cheaper than Logos.

 

Logos titles are great, and better in many ways, but not in all ways. I value my Logos library. I would much rather get a Logos file than a Kindle file.  I would rather support LOGOS than Amazon, but I just can't at this price level (again, I am referring to the 3 resources above). 100% more cost for just a little more work and just a little added information? This is a joke.

 

 

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 10:25 AM

Super Tramp:
Whenever this discussion is raised in the forums everyone who starts it is demanding Logos lower their prices.

Really? Everyone? Demanding?  I hope your exegesis of Scripture does not likewise suffer from "reading things into it."

Super Tramp:
we should just acknowledge Logos is superior.

Logos has a very good niche in the eBook publishing market. The suitability of Logos' titles is a highly subjective issue and is affected by their price, user's occupation, academic status and other variables. 

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 10:50 AM

toughski:
Logos has a very good niche in the eBook publishing market. The suitability of Logos' titles is a highly subjective issue and is affected by their price, user's occupation, academic status and other variables. 

Dear Pussycat,

Are you here to simply cause dissention?  If you think the prices are too high, the solution has been set forth for you—don't buy them.  As for me and my house, we will stay with Logos.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 10832
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 10:53 AM

toughski:
BMW is superior to (insert your family car here) in EVERY WAY

Doubt the truth of that statement. My granddaughter owns a BMW, while my wife and I own a Ford crossover and a Chevy pickup. We get better performance along with less expensive—and less frequent—repairs.

toughski:
100% more cost for just a little more work and just a little added information? This is a joke.

Then, don't purchase from Logos, but let the rest of us make our own decisions. You seem intent on convincing yourself that the rest of us a just plain stupid. I am frankly tired of those who believe themselves to be intellectual superior trying to force their sense of value upon the rest of us. If you believe Logos resources are overpriced, then do not purchase them. Let the rest of us make our own decisions.

Before you call me a "fanboy" like you just did ST, I suggest that you read more of my posts on the L4 Mac forum.

Posts 452
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 11:00 AM

toughski:

Logos has a very good niche in the eBook publishing market. The suitability of Logos' titles is a highly subjective issue and is affected by their price, user's occupation, academic status and other variables. 

I would add to that list (in fact place at the top of that list) the type of resource. That and the price are my primary considerations when deciding in what format to purchase a book.

If it's a dictionary, commentary, or original language resource, then Logos' tagging is worth a premium. Oddly, Logos doesn't seem to charge that much of a premium for those resources compared to print and Kindle counterparts. That's not always the case, but as generalizations go it seems to hold true pretty well.

Works on counseling (like the ones that started this thread) and, to a lesser degree, theology don't benefit nearly as much from resource tagging, and as such I'm not willing to pay nearly as much for the value added service Logos offers. If it's cheaper for Kindle, I'll buy it for Kindle, read it there, and import it to Logos as a personal book just to make it searchable. Most scripture references are automatically tagged, and I don't worry too much about the ones that aren't.

Just my two cents.

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 11:20 AM

Jack Caviness:
Doubt the truth of that statement.

Jack, I was using the same (false) logic that ST used, that is all. You just proved my point, thank you.

Jack Caviness:
Then, don't purchase from Logos

I didn't

Jack Caviness:
I am frankly tired of those who believe themselves to be intellectual superior trying to force their sense of value upon the rest of us.

me too! I am frankly tired of anyone trying to force their sense of value upon the rest of us. Nuff said.

Super Tramp:
But others may see a bunch of reasons for buying resources in Logos over the inferior formats. 

Super Tramp:
So either we need that green puppy to come around again or we should just acknowledge Logos is superior.

Super Tramp:
If your goal is to read on a Kindle then you obviously want to buy a resource formatted for that hardware. That would make your inferior format and all of the accompanying limitations the "superior" format. It does not mean your cheap book is as useful as my Logos format.

Posts 152
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 11:33 AM

George Somsel:

Dear Pussycat,

Are you here to simply cause dissention?  If you think the prices are too high, the solution has been set forth for you—don't buy them.  As for me and my house, we will stay with Logos.

Someone raises the point that there seems to be a discongruity between realistic prices and Logos prices and you're ready to burn him at the stake as being a dissenter?

Sounds like Roman Popery.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 11:41 AM

Ryan:

George Somsel:

Dear Pussycat,

Are you here to simply cause dissention?  If you think the prices are too high, the solution has been set forth for you—don't buy them.  As for me and my house, we will stay with Logos.

Someone raises the point that there seems to be a discongruity between realistic prices and Logos prices and you're ready to burn him at the stake as being a dissenter?

Sounds like Roman Popery.

So you're going to try to stir the pot too?  I don't recall that I brandished a match.  As regards "Roman Popery", I don't intend to open that can of worms again, but you should know by now that I am not Roman Catholic.   You should cease trying to be incendiary.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 152
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 11:54 AM

I'm not attempting to be "incendiary"; it would seem within this conversation, you came out the gate with an ad hominem "pussycat".

George Somsel:
As regards "Roman Popery", I don't intend to open that can of worms again, but you should know by now that I am not Roman Catholic.

I know... it seems the irony is lost.

Posts 463
Dave Moser | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 12:36 PM

Ryan:
This is the same thing with the new Edward's Collection. As much as I would love to have the Works of Jonathan Edwards in Logos, I'll readily peruse my Book collection, in conjunction with Yale, and other online sources that have the complete works of Edward's for free.

http://www.logos.com/product/15471/the-works-of-jonathan-edwards $900? Really? For something that is readily available for free? On top of this... Amazon is slowly releasing these volumes through Kindle for less than $5 each.

Two misunderstandings:

1. Logos didn't set this price. The high price is a product, not of Logos, but of the bizare world of academic publishing. This collection is something you would normally see in a library, not a personal collection and is being made available to (very motivated) individual buyers by Logos.

Your problem is with Yale University, not Logos.

2. This collection isn't public domain because it is edited material (compiled in thematic volumes, analyzed and discussed in introductions and footnoted by scholars). Some (non-edited) portions of it are available in the public domain and as Kindle ebooks but most of it is not. Contrary to your statements, Amazon is not releasing these volumes in Kindle format for any price and much of this collection has never been published in any form before. The only way to access much of the (non-edited, Edwardsian) content was to travel to New Haven, CT and arrange private access to the Jonathan Edwards Center at Yale Divinity school.

Posts 152
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 1:11 PM

So are you saying that the 26 Volume Collected Works that Logos is publishing has content above and beyond the Works of Jonathan Edwards collection from Yale University Press found here- http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/onlinecatalog.asp?catalog=1105488 , also available on Amazon, and in Kindle formats for some of the volumes?

Posts 1522
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 1:29 PM

toughski:

Jack Caviness:
Then don't purchase from Logos

I didn't

Problem resolved! Glad we were able to help.

 

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 1:48 PM

Ryan:
I'm not attempting to be "incendiary"; it would seem within this conversation, you came out the gate with an ad hominem "pussycat".

Do you really suppose that his name is "toughski"?  It sounds as though he is attempting to portray himself as a tough guy.  Usually those types are all bluster hence "Pussycat."

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 152
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 2:13 PM

George Somsel:
Do you really suppose that his name is "toughski"?  It sounds as though he is attempting to portray himself as a tough guy.  Usually those types are all bluster hence "Pussycat."

Here's my internet alias everywhere but here, in fact this is my signature banner-

Image

Want to jump into insults solely based on that?

Silly and illogical.

Regardless, I think we should get the discussion back on track with the OP.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 2:20 PM

toughski:
 
Super Tramp:
I assure you most $30 screw drivers (Snap-on, Mac, Cooper, etc) are in reality superior to a Craftsman tool in every way,  Wink
 Again, I know you are not driving your large family in a BMW SUV, do you? But why? BMW is superior to (insert your family car here) in EVERY WAY (emphasis mine to prove the point - "a better tool doth not a better experience make") 

WoW toughski! ~ spoken like a real Craftsman, Kindle, pdf, text .doc kind of a guy. Surprise  fwiw: At one point I bought a 37' Champion tour bus with blacked out windows and 3 axles. Driving it home from church I popped a wheelie on Kings Highway in Bridgeport, Michigan. I bet you can't do that with a BMW SUV. Devil  One of my family had a new Porsche Boxster, a BMW and a Chevy Silverado pickup. Guess which was his favorite.

toughski:
This is a typical fan-boy response: ill-informed and proud. Let's talk about facts, shall we? 

Yeah, let us reduce the conversation to name-calling. I really don't mind being a fan-boy. it makes agruing with fence posts easier. Confused Maybe I missed your facts because I keep notes in OneNote and paper notebooks (-the way Thomas Edison preferred.) You don't see the value of an 18 passenger tour bus for your family transportation. I don't get excited about highlighting in a browser. Not only can I not read Logos on a Blackberry, I can't read my own phone number on one. I don't need e-ink to see my resources when I have a 73" HD TV I can use my Logos on.That setup will work even after I am legally blind.Cool Your Kindle can search one $.99 book at a time. My Logos4 can search 10,200+ books (be they free, $.99 or $168 books) all simultaneously and return the relative hits. Those are the facts I care about. And that is why I say unashamedly "Just between me and the fence post, Logos resources are superior." You are still a swell guy if you never agree with me.

toughski:
I would much rather get a Logos file than a Kindle file.
That is why Logos should cost more than PDF, TXT and Kindle.

edit: I have never convinced a fence post I am right. However, I have converted over 7000 cows to my way of thinking as they walked past the fence post and eves-dropped on the discussion. 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 2:23 PM

Ryan:

Want to jump into insults solely based on that?

Silly and illogical.

I agree that you are being silly and illogical for attempting to start trouble.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 67
Kilroy | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 4:59 PM

Super Tramp:
I really don't mind being a fan-boy. it makes agruing with fence posts easier. Confused
A man's gotta know his limitations.

Kilroy Was Here.

Posts 67
Kilroy | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 5:07 PM

George;

It's good that you deleted your claim about converting 7000 cows. It was a load of bull anyway.

Kilroy Was Here.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 5:44 PM

Kilroy:

George;

It's good that you deleted your claim about converting 7000 cows. It was a load of bull anyway.

I deleted nothing so where do you come up with your bull?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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