Morris Proctor And the Egegetical Guide

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This post has 13 Replies | 4 Followers

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Todd Robel | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, May 13 2012 1:27 PM

Does Morris Proctor have a seminary degree? -and if does, does He know how to do full fledged exegesis using all the tools available in the exegesis guide? Again, if he does, is there somewhere I can go to see him or someone else show the full potential of the guide and not just the word study intro I keep seeing. Is there a camp logos where you can see the full potential of the guide? Is there an exhaustive manual somewhere?

Posts 80
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 13 2012 1:34 PM

Check this out, not cheap but the instructors really show how to apply exegesis using Logos tool : http://www.logos.com/product/5876/learn-to-use-biblical-greek-and-hebrew-with-logos-bible-software    Blessings.

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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 13 2012 1:46 PM

Todd Robel:

Does Morris Proctor have a seminary degree? -and if does, does He know how to do full fledged exegesis using all the tools available in the exegesis guide? Again, if he does, is there somewhere I can go to see him or someone else show the full potential of the guide and not just the word study intro I keep seeing. Is there a camp logos where you can see the full potential of the guide? Is there an exhaustive manual somewhere?

This might help…. http://www.logos.com/video/2463/exegetical-guide

Also if u have L4 click the help button and then "View online video Tutorials'

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 8
Todd Robel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 13 2012 2:02 PM

Thanks for your suggestion Paul. I have a significant understanding of Greek and Hebrew and I was trained at GCTS to do exegesis but I am wanting to know what the Logos Software can do for me when I am working through all of the stages of exegesis. I am looking for something close to exhaustive that I can easily reference. Now that I have  the software I want to know how to use all of it. I get the impression no one fully understands (in a more or less comprehensive way) how all the Logos software works. All of the videos have just an intro to the word study potential of the software (which is certainly not all that is involved in exegesis) and even this is superficial. 500.00 to perhaps acquire a few more scraps of info about the software doesn't seem right.

Posts 80
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 13 2012 2:30 PM

The "learn-to-use-greek-and-hebrew-with Logos" video focused on USING Logos: it does not actually teach the languages, but only the essential grammar needed to use the program.  On the Hebrew side, it demonstrates how to use the Interlinear and Reverse Interlinear, how to search the Hebrew lemma in ESV to do word studies; how to do visual filters for Hebrew verb forms; the various lexicons and their strengths and weaknesses.  On the Greek side, it demonstrates the use of syntactic diagram as well as lexicons and visual filters. They further demonstrate how all these tools are applicable in sermon preparation and proper interpretation.  What they did not cover are advanced topics like using apparatus and comparing early manuscripts.  It helped me tremendously during my GCTS off-campus course on biblical books, not having the pleasure to learn Hebrew with Gary Pratico.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 13 2012 3:20 PM

Apologies: personally lack a seminary degree.  Also have not been to Camp Logos by Morris Proctor.  Most of my Logos 4 learning experience has been friendly forum discussions about using Logos Bible Software: have learned a lot plus have a lot to learn.

My favorite Logos 4 feature is visual filter highlighting using Logos Greek Morphology so can see range of verbal expression in a passage in Greek and English resources with appropriate tagging.  Also like using Lexham Discourse Greek New Testament (LDGNT) with interlinear display showing Greek manuscript and Louw-Nida numbers: can hover mouse on Louw-Nida # for semantic contextual range of meaning pop-up plus can hover over Greek words with Discourse Analysis tagging to pop-up my customized LDGNT glossary with questions, thread => Suggestion: Discourse Greek NT more customizable includes personal book docx file.

Wiki Extended Tips for Visual Filters has => Examples of visual filters with screen shot showing 5 Logos Greek Morphology filters with highlighting palette.  Personally learned to create palette and styles first, then create visual filters.

Likewise have customized my lexicon priorities so right click has 10 choices: 5 for lemma and 5 for Strong's numbers => searching strong's numbers since several discussion lexicons are indexed by Strong's numbers.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 8
Todd Robel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 14 2012 12:05 AM

Thanks again Paul. I am just frustrated because what I really want is a one stop shop: a manual or an exhaustive series that demonstrates the full potential of the product, that allows me to study and streamline it for my own purposes. It seems very strange to me to have a product without an exhaustive manual that I can even purchase to figure out how it all works. I want to master the software and I don't know where to turn. Almost every resource and skill mentioned in this thread is appreciated immensely but most of what is here I have figured out for myself searching the forums and watching every video I could get my hands on over the last couple of years. Forgive my directness with regard to Mr. Proctor (in fact, I appreciate very much the service that he has performed for Christ and this community), but we are always directed toward him as our resource and he does not seem as helpful as he could be when it comes to intensive exegesis. Similarly, although I am a very big fan of seminary,  and I will forever be indebted to those who trained me, I am no elitist when it comes to  schooling. We are all just broken, sinful, folks (a fact I have perhaps given expression to in the spirit of my first 2 frustrated posts- forgive me) who have found Christ and are now trying to serve Him to the best of our ability wherever we are. Thanks again for everyone's help. Todd

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 14 2012 2:22 AM

Todd Robel:
what I really want is a one stop shop: a manual or an exhaustive series that demonstrates the full potential of the product

I understand your frustration in that I am working on converting bible study/exegesis/hermeneutic practices into their Logos equivalent. However, in many way what you are requesting is impossible as much of the functionality depends upon the resources you have purchased. In addition, there are a number of functions that one has to go outside Logos software to perform. Here, I'm not talking about missing features in Logos but rather features and tools that are sufficiently specialized that Logos shouldn't try to build them - although I'd love to see some integration. Finally, depending upon your denomination "exhaustive" can have very different meanings. For Jewish scholars we may have the Talmud but standard commentaries - Rashi, for example - are missing. There are major gaps in pre-Reformation interpretative works that hinder those giving weight to the history of a passage's interpretation throughout church history.

If you share in the forums what you need to do, a number of users find creative methods of getting there. When one can't get from here to there, we can be quite effective at getting Logos to recognize the need for solutions - not necessarily according to our private priority list but they do listen.

 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 208
Paul Gisbourne | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 14 2012 2:48 AM

Hi Todd,

 

I'm not sure if you are aware of this but I have found help in John Fallahee's video's which can be found at LearnLogos. He has a series of webinars on both bible study and sermon preparation using Logos4. Maybe worth a look if you haven't already. Mark Barnes also has some videos on preparing a sermon with Logos.

Posts 80
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 14 2012 6:49 AM

Other complicated non-bilblical softwares that I have used have large complete set of documentations.  To have to paid a large amount of money for similar kind of information is difficult in this economics environment.  

I cannot imagine how missionaries in the third world can spend that kind of money.  The cost of the cheapest package is one month salary for many of our Third World brothers and sisters. It seems like Logos is a Cadillac for the first-world Christians (or Catholics); the rest of the world has to make do with Chevy.  We can study the Words without obeying; or we can become a scholar with no charity; we can have highly developed brains with small hearts.  Some of the pastors I know are struggling financially.   I try dodging the questions when pastors from small churches ask me how does it cost.  The young people in my church would not be able to afford something like Logos.  Other softwares for exegesis are significantly less costly.   I point most people to the free "nonprofessional" grade exegesis resources available on the web.

Returning to Logos, MJ Smith put out an excellent reading list (accessible in the program) called "Logos Windows training videos." (Thanks MJ!)  On MJ's list: The video called Syntax 1 and Syntax 2, and Reverse Interlinear are relevant to exegesis.  Mark Barnes also has a relevant video.  Joe Miller's video are entertaining and useful.  

Posts 1880
Philana Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 14 2012 7:38 AM

There is a pretty detailed help file and useful wiki site.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 14 2012 9:06 AM

MJ. Smith:

Todd Robel:
what I really want is a one stop shop: a manual or an exhaustive series that demonstrates the full potential of the product

I understand your frustration in that I am working on converting bible study/exegesis/hermeneutic practices into their Logos equivalent. However, in many way what you are requesting is impossible as much of the functionality depends upon the resources you have purchased.

Likewise suspect full potential is still being learned and explored by Logos users, developers, and trainers.

Personally created a highlighting palette and visual filter that use precept imagery a bit differently for various Logos Greek morphological conjunction tagging:

Thankful for Logos 4.5b highlighting option to create a new highlighting palette, then can move styles so existing visual filters keep style choices.  Likewise Thankful can show Highlighting palette for a visual key.

MJ. Smith:
If you share in the forums what you need to do, a number of users find creative methods of getting there.

Friendly forum discussions about using Logos Bible Software also provide motivation to update wiki => http://wiki.logos.com/

Thankful for many volunteer wiki contributions plus Thanks to Steve Clark  for creating and hosting a number of wiki pages in a docx file

MJ. Smith:
When one can't get from here to there, we can be quite effective at getting Logos to recognize the need for solutions - not necessarily according to our private priority list but they do listen.

Logos User Voice is approaching 500 suggestions => http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4 plus Suggestions forum has more.

Likewise Thankful for Bob Pritchett (CEO) replying to a number of forum threads.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 824
GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2012 3:34 PM

Hi Todd - as Martha has said above, a great deal depends on which resources you have.  I have the Platinum base package, and have added BDAG, Wallace's Greek grammar, Waltke/O'Connor's Hebrew Syntax, the IVP Reference Collection, some historical background resources, background commentaries and WBC plus NICOT/NICNT.  I tend to do my exegetical work for the NT using the steps set out in Fee's New Testament Exegesis. For OT work I tend to use the steps in Stuart's corresponding OT volume.  I find I am able to do most of my exegetical work using Logos, and there are a number of things I have spent some time learning to help me in this.  I don't have either the NA27 or UBS apparatus (they are both quite expensive) so still tend to do a lot of my textual work with the paper UBS apparatus as I don't like the standard NT apparatuses that come with Logos (although I do have the Metzger textual commentary in Logos).  The exegetical guide is, in my opinion, not really an exegetical guide - it covers primarily the textual and linguistic bits.  So, I have put quite a bit of effort into learning the folllowing: 

  • Use collections  - I have set up collections for background resources and commentaries. This makes it easier to handle the historical background part of my exegesis.  You can limit a search to a specific collection of resources. 
  • Layouts - I have set up layouts for some of the exegetical steps so that I have all the relevant resources open at once without having to enter them specifically. 
  • Passage guide - I have set up a customised Passage Guide so that I go to the relevant resources. Passage Guides are often more use for exegesis than the Exegetical Guide (You can also customise the Exegetical Guide or create your own)
  • Prioritisation - Prioritising your most relevant resources in each category.  In this way, the most relevant material appears at the top of your searches, saving you from ploughing through a lot of the "noise" that can come up in searches.  
  • More recently, I have done a bit of work on mastering Syntax and Morphological searches which helps in looking through the text for similar grammatical structures.  

As we all have our own workflow, I'm afraid I haven't really answered your question fully, but if you learn how to use the Logos features mentioned above, you will find it reasonably easy to set up a workflow within Logos that will make it an invaluable tool in the exegetical process.  The free videos referred to earlier do a very good job of introducing you to each of the elements above, but the power comes from combining the tools. I do agree with the comment in another thread that it would be good for Logos to get an employee to try working through the process, and to have a workflow tool in the environment to help, but I am also aware that there are dozens of methods, and people from differing theological traditions will approach the exegetical task in different ways.  If I get time I'll try to write down what I have done to streamline my workflow, although I am in the "pastor doing sermon exegesis" rather than the "serious scholar" category and am not one of the more knowledgeable folk around here. 


Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5

Posts 1880
Philana Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2012 4:34 PM

Hi Todd,

There are some videos and and tutorials that might be helpful.

First there is a help file in the software that can be very helpful in figuring things out.

Also very helpful is the Logos Bible Software Wiki. You can even download some of the info in a docx. format that can be compiled into Personal Book L4 Wiki PB for offline use.

Mark Barnes created some excellent free videos on using Logos at his website Logos 4 Training, specifically ones on sermon prep that cover some of what you are looking for. You can watch and download it’s called Preparing a sermon with Logos 4.

Joe Miller also has a free video series on YouTube

Basic Sermon and Bible Study Layout for Logos Bible Software

Sermon Preparation with Logos Bible Software – Intro

Sermon Preparation with Logos Bible Software – Day 1a

Sermon Preparation with Logos Bible Software – Day 1b

Sermon Preparation with Logos Bible Software – Day 2

Sermon Preparation with Logos Bible Software – Day 3

Sermon Preparation with Logos Bible Software – Day 4

Sermon Preparation with Logos Bible Software – Day 5

These videos all cover aspects of Exegesis and ways to use the Exegetical Guide with more precision.

John Fallahee has also produced a video on Layouts Strategies for Better Bible study, it does cost $4.99, but is very well done. I believe you can view a sample video to see if it’s something you might find useful.

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