Hebrew definitions in the Mac version

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 9:56 AM

Homer Russell:
I know that the BHS that I have is old, I did click on the i and saw the info.

Curious about BHS resource information ? possibly last modified on 22 Mar 2006 ?

Looking at ftp://ftp.logos.com/LbxBooks/ noticed Logos has 12 BHQ and BHS resources.

Logos offers => German Bible Society Bundle that has BHS and BHQ with apparatus

Homer Russell:
But it still does not explain why the Mac behaved erroneously and the PC correctly, both using the identical resource.

Wiki Mac and PC User Interface Differences has => Feature Parity list with a number of items where Logos 4 on Mac and PC are different.  Typically items have been added to list after being confirmed by two (or more) Logos 4 users along with link to forum thread discussing issue that tend to have Logos 4 screen shot(s) for illustration.

Technical Note: PC user interface code uses Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) while Mac uses Objective C, which is being revamped => Reminder about 4.5c UI implementation changes so current Logos 4.5c Beta has a number of buggy display issues that are being discussed in Mac Beta forum.

Homer Russell:
Having programed a little in C++, Visual Basic, Java, C#, and Object Pascal, I would like to see the code that handles the mapping of the lemma to the dictionary databases. How it actually parses the Hebrew conjugations to the root words, and thus getting a definition.

Logos is hiring => http://www.logos.com/about/careers Software developers can work in Bellingham, WA or Phoenix, AZ => http://blog.logos.com/2011/12/logos-opens-phoenix-development-office/

Logos supports a number of Hebrew morphological tagging schemes, which have a variety of homograph numbering schemes.  Bob Pritchett (CEO) posted => Status: Hebrew Audio Pronunciations Pre-Pub that confirms Hebrew lemma code mapping is complicated.

Homer Russell:
FYI, bit shifting is used by advanced programmers.

By the way, the ASCII and EBCDIC difference between upper and lower case is a space (for 7 bit and 8 bit character sets).  XOR a space changes case.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 10:25 AM

Homer Russell:
I am using the SBL Hebrew, I do have a Mac Mini, with 8GB of RAM.

That is the font.  Fonts are interchangeable if the fonts include the same languages (Don't try to use Wingdings for Hebrew).  If your BHS does indeed have final mem in the middle of רמיח ,I would recommend that you submit a typo report.  It must, however, be more than simply the surface text since the surface text could be wrong and the lemma still be correct so be sure to note that the lemma appears to be wrong.  Since I use Windows, I can't confirm your problem with your MAC version.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 43
Homer Russell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 1:41 PM

 

Above is the information. 

Logos Bible Software 4.5b SR-3 (4.52.0.2208) is the Logos version.

Mac version 10.7.4.

 

I am new to this, but I will say that I do not consider myself happy that it works at all. I have upgrades Logos 4 three times, now I have the Scholar's Library. I see a difference between a license and a file. I might have had the license for the BHS since '97 or whenever it was; but that does not mean that the file itself could have been updated for whatever reasons.

 

The program itself should be responsible for the way the books display. Logos 2.1 might have been for  Windows, but I have Logos 4 in my Windows 7 HP, my Mac Mini with OS Lion, and my iPad and iPhone. My Logos 4 for Windows does not have that problem with the BHS, neither my iPad or iPhone (though the program is somewhat different, one has access to most of the books, as well as Vyrso, etc.

 

I had to manually install the books for my Libronix installation, using the same databases. But the Logos 4 which I upgraded to (never had version 3) just last November, installed the books that I had purchased from the web, not a CD, DVD or hard drive. It did this with my Windows, Mac, iPad, iPhone installation (the iPad/iPhone gives one the option to copy it to the device). So I don't see what Logos 2.1 has to do with anything. Every book I have I have purchased, and I expect it to work.

 

If others have the same BHS version, regardless of how old or new it is, in the Mac, and it does not behave as mine, it would show even more that it is not a problem with the BHS version. Although, I don't know if others have even had something remotely like what happened to me happen to them.

 

It is not a matter of the text, I have numerous versions of the Masoretic Text installed through Logos. If it is a matter of an updated database, I am looking forward to that.

Posts 43
Homer Russell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 1:50 PM

The text displays correctly. The problem is that in the words that have the letters that have a different final ending (M, N, K, etc.) the default dictionary (Gesenius in my case) would not display the definition only on my Mac.

 

But, on further examination, I noticed that when I right-clicked on the offending words, the Lemma would display the ending forms at the beginning or middle (the latest screenshot I showed that mishpat (judgement) was spelled םשףט instead of משפט. And so on with all the other instances that have the letters that have a different character for their final form.

Posts 43
Homer Russell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 1:55 PM

I have used only 2 examples, but my bug happens with every word that uses the final Mem, Kaf, Nun, Pe, etc.

 

Again the problem is not the misspelling, but the not giving a definition. The Bible text displays correctly.

 

Only a nut would use Wingdings, Times New Roman, Arial, etc. have the Hebrew and Greek characters inside (but not all fonts, actually, most don't). :)

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 2:02 PM

Homer Russell:

 

Above is the information. 

Logos Bible Software 4.5b SR-3 (4.52.0.2208) is the Logos version.

Mac version 10.7.4.

I believe I see what may be causing your problem.  Even so, I don't understand why you have a problem.  You have the old morphologically tagged BHS (no version number).  The current version of BHS is 4.2.  The problem with my theory is that my copy of the morphologically tagged BHS (no version) does not have a final mem in the medial position.  In any case, I would suggest that you get the newer version since there are changes in the tagging.   The current version is

LLS:1.0.197
2008-04-07T19:27:28Z
BHSWTS42.lbxlls

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 43
Homer Russell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 2:04 PM

Marvelous stuff. Thank you. I don't wish to program professionally, but do have a lot of curiosity.

Mac OS 10.7.4

The fascinating thing about my bug is that the lemma IS morphologically correct, no problem there. Just that the letters are in their final form, and no definition is given. Like the mishpat example משףט is the correct consonantal spelling of the word,  But I am not surprised that the dictionary definition is not given for that spelling (misspelling) because that is not the way the word is written according to the norms of Hebrew spelling.

Here is a smile :-)

Posts 43
Homer Russell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 2:06 PM

I should have written םשףט this example has 2 instances!

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 2:09 PM

Homer Russell:
Only a nut would use Wingdings, Times New Roman, Arial, etc. have the Hebrew and Greek characters inside (but not all fonts, actually, most don't). :)

Well, as the old add for Almond Joy and Mounds candy used to say "Sometimes you feel like a nut—sometimes you don't."

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 43
Homer Russell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 2:15 PM

Here is another screen shot, just kept on scrolling, here is an example from Psalms 34:1 At first it looked like a Zayin in the middle; but it is a final Nun. The word is PANAH (to turn). פנה and not ףןה 

Posts 43
Homer Russell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 2:20 PM

Where do I get the newer version?

Posts 43
Homer Russell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 2:27 PM

We are getting close to the bottom of things here. The light is at the end of the tunnel.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 2:59 PM

Homer Russell:

We are getting close to the bottom of things here. The light is at the end of the tunnel.

"I saw the light.  I saw the light."  [Sing it]  Wink 

You can get the current version from your friendly neighborhood Logos dealer. 

http://www.logos.com/product/1979/biblia-hebraica-stuttgartensia-bhs-hebrew-with-westminster-42-morphology

You could also get I was going to suggest that you could also get the Hebrew Bible: Andersen-Forbes Analyzed Text, but I don't see it listed—perhaps it only comes in packages.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 10826
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 3:03 PM

Homer Russell:
The light is at the end of the tunnel.

Hope that it is not just the headlight of an oncoming train Big Smile

I had said more, but then discovered that I did not know what I was talking about, so deleted the rest before anyone saw it Big Smile

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 3:14 PM

Jack Caviness:
I had said more, but then discovered that I did not know what I was talking about, so deleted the rest before anyone saw it Big Smile

But I saw it.  I'll not comment though since you deleted it.  Good catch.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 10826
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 4:03 PM

George Somsel:

Jack Caviness:
I had said more, but then discovered that I did not know what I was talking about, so deleted the rest before anyone saw it Big Smile

But I saw it.  I'll not comment though since you deleted it.  Good catch.

Big Smile

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 4:54 PM

Homer Russell:

Where do I get the newer version?

Curious about bhs resource(s) in your Logos library ?

Clicked on library icon in Logos 4 Mac, then entered bhs to filter list.

By the way, wiki Using the Forums has => Reply post editor that shows how to quote all (or part) of a previous reply.

George Somsel:

You can get the current version from your friendly neighborhood Logos dealer. 

http://www.logos.com/product/1979/biblia-hebraica-stuttgartensia-bhs-hebrew-with-westminster-42-morphology

Searching Logos.com for bhs finds some more resources => http://www.logos.com/products/search?q=bhs&start=0&sort=rel&pageSize=30

Appears older BHS resource, which was included in Logos 2.1, is no longer available for purchase.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 43
Homer Russell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 3 2012 1:53 PM

I thank everyone for your input, but I am still left where I started. I have other versions, newer of the BHS that behave as supposed to in the Mac.

The problem is that the Windows one works, and the Mac does not display a lot of definitions (talking about my older database, the older version of BHS). That to me says it all. The problem is not that the file I have is older (I did not install it on Logos 4, it was all done through the web, it is from them, not from the CD I still have from Logos 2.1), but that it does not work on the Mac.

There has to be a reason that it does not work, and it is not because of the "older file". I am not going to purchase another one I have more than 2 more recent ones, that is not a solution.

I just wanted people to know this happens, and apparently it only happens to me. I will probably be the one who solves it.

This is the most basic of features, the being able to get a definition. Even SeedMaster could do that (with the Strong's numbers). The age of the file does not have bearing. The way that Logos 4 for Mac parses the word has to be the reason.

The lemma for some reason has the letters that have a different final form substituted for the final forms in the beginning and middle of the word. The lexicon does not give the definition because it expects Abraham (using English words for clarity) and it gets abraHam. Abraham is a name, abraHam is not. So nothing happens.

Also, whatever the differences are between the 3.5 morphology and the 4.2 I would have to look into .But if those gave erroneous definitions to everyone who has them there would be a big outcry, not "dish out $99.00" which is what the link tells me (no offense), not Logos having a message saying "We apologize for the inconvenience, here is an updated file that works".. IF that is what the problem is, which I think it is not. (The fact that it is from Logos 2.1 - the same Masoretic text has been around for thousands of years, the 1997 is outdated? - I say this tongue in cheek)

Smiles to everyone Big Smile

 

PS That is what the Logos tech told me when I had another bug with the highlighting, which they did fix; he said that I had an older Nestle 26, and that the new one had been around for years 27, that is. Once they fixed the bug, both the 26 and 27 work the same, I got the 27 when I upgraded but still use the 26 because the OT quotations are in bold, and the 27 has them in italic, and I want them to stand out.

Posts 43
Homer Russell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 3 2012 2:03 PM

That list does not include the Anderson Forbes Analyzed Text.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 3 2012 2:03 PM

Homer Russell:
still use the 26 because the OT quotations are in bold, and the 27 has them in italic, and I want them to stand out.

I'd rather that they stay on the screen.  Big Smile  Big Smile  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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