New prepub: List of Septuagint Words Sharing Common Elements

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This post has 26 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Sep 5 2012 3:41 PM

Is anyone familiar with this?  If it involves etymology, I'm not very interested.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 4:51 PM

George Somsel:
  If it involves etymology, I'm not very interested.

What? You don't like PIE? I'm disappointed in you.Sad

Note: PIE stands for the proto-Indo-European language.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 5:04 PM

I was trying to track this one down (without success). But if anyone wants a good source list for these type languages, you might download the Vanderbilt one (nicely organized by language etc)

divinity.library.vanderbilt.edu/bibliographies/languages.pdf

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 5:19 PM

MJ. Smith:

George Somsel:
  If it involves etymology, I'm not very interested.

What? You don't like PIE? I'm disappointed in you.Sad

Note: PIE stands for the proto-Indo-European language.

Etymology is not what determines the meaning of words.  It may once have been determinative, but when a word has been used for a time in different contexts, the etymology becomes more irrelevant.  It may work for a word such as ἀρσενοκοίτης since it seems to have been first used by Paul (and likely coined by him), but in most cases it is not.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 6:06 PM

George Somsel:
Etymology is not what determines the meaning of words.

True ... but it's a great source of triviaStick out tongue

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 101
tfjern | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 10:03 PM

This is a must-have, non-trivial LXX resource.

Please, Logos, get this ready for publication as soon as possible. Xavier Jacques published a "List of New Testament Words" as well. Be nice if Logos sold both books.

Posts 912
David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 10:51 PM

This book lists together all the words in the LXX which belong to the same group (such as καταμένω, μένω, ὑπομένω, προσμένω and περιμένω) and indicates in which part of the LXX the entry-word occurs: Torah, historical books, poetic and sapiential books, prophetic books. 

See Tov, Emanuel,  The Text Critical Use of the Septuagint in Biblical Research 2nd edition,  pp. 94-95. 

In "Accordance" this is achieved by simply searching the root: “+μένω“.  Here we shall get a list of all these words and shall have to search them all and then we shall have to merge the search results.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 11:09 PM

Seven posts and no link? http://www.logos.com/product/25781/list-of-septuagint-words-sharing-common-elements 

May be useful - but no sample pages in Logos and no look-into in Amazon. A bit "cat in the bag". 

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 101
tfjern | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 11:54 PM

Xavier Jacques' "List of LXX Words..." does for the LXX what Robinson's "Mastering Greek Vocabulary" and Van Voorst's "Greek Vocabulary" (3rd. ed.) and "Building Your New Testament Greek Vocabulary" does for the New Testament.

Granted, its format requires some getting used to, and it lacks English translations (too bad these can't be added), still, this book, along with his "List of NT Words...," are works of careful scholarship.

Maybe Logos can be pestered into offering both of Xavier Jacques' books.

Posts 569
Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 3:31 AM

My question about this pre-pub would be, would it help me as a Bible student when I look at OT quotes in the NT?

I ask because the question often comes up of "well they're quoting the Septuagint... that's why it doesn;t match your own version. But sometimes that's not what the Septuagint has written there..."

Hope this makes sense! Smile

Posts 101
tfjern | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 6:13 AM

No, it would not be of much direct help. It would, however, be immensely helpful if you were studying LXX cognates.  Still, the work is worth purchasing if you are interested in LXX vocabulary. Remember, the LXX was, after all, the Bible of the early church.

Posts 887
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 6:27 AM

Danker's brief remarks in his review of Muraoka's LXX Lexicon:

http://www.bookreviews.org/pdf/7273_7915.pdf

Takamitsu Muraoka’s Lexicon marks a high point in the history of septuagintal lexicography. One of the most well-known among the earlier works is F. Schleusner’s Novus thesaurus philologico-criticus: Sive lexicon in LXX et reliquos interpretes Graecos ac scriptores apocryphos Veteris Testamenti (Leipzig, 1820–21). Schleusner’s book is primarily an amplification of J. Christian Biel’s Novus thesaurus philologicus sive lexicon in LXX (ed. E. H. Mutzenbecher; 3 vols.; The Hague, 1779). In recent times, students have been grateful to Friedrich Rehkopf for providing a bare-bones vocabulary list, with some statistical analysis: Septuaginta-Vokabular (Göttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht, 1989). In 1992 and 1996, a team of scholars (J. Lust, E. Eynikel, K. Hauspie) produced A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft). This last publication included a statistical feature that improved on Xavier Jacques, Index des mots apparentés dans la septante (Subsidia biblic; Rome, 1972; in English, List of Septuagint Words Sharing Common Elements [Rome, 1972]).

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 6:30 AM

Carmen, if you're a crackerjack at using the Logos word studies and you right-click a hebrew word in question, it'll show a section on the LXX usage. But I'm guessing you're already well aware of that.

I rarely use it (for that function, though it is handy). Instead, I just keep http://www.logos.com/product/3748/hebrew-aramaic-index-to-the-septuagint open and linked to my hebrew lexicons. Then when I'm considering a hebrew definition, it's also showing me how the LXX translator handled it (since unlike the hebrew, they're largely translating in bulk). A quick glance for the pattern.

But if you're interested, the book you should consider would be http://www.logos.com/product/3842/the-use-of-the-septuagint-in-new-testament-research It's well done, and speaks to how the OT was used (not a reference work). It's especially interesting in the gospels where in many cases Jesus appears to have quoted the LXX.

I'm presently studying the Apostolic Fathers, and the more I read, the more I'm surprised the NT writers even quoted the OT in a literal way. Apparently Christian writers at the time were very comfortable just getting in the ballpark and often mixing up several OT verses at a time.

 

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 887
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 6:43 AM

DMB:

Carmen, if you're a crackerjack at using the Logos word studies and your right-click a hebrew word in question, it'll show a section on the LXX. But I'm guessing you're already well aware of that.

I rarely use it (for that function, though it is handy). Instead, I just keep http://www.logos.com/product/3748/hebrew-aramaic-index-to-the-septuagint open and linked to my hebrew lexicons. Then when I'm considering a hebrew definition, it's also showing me how the LXX translator handled it (since unlike the hebrew, they're largely translating in bulk). A quick glance for the pattern.

But if you're interested, the book you should consider would be http://www.logos.com/product/3842/the-use-of-the-septuagint-in-new-testament-research It's well done, and speaks to how the OT was used (not a reference work). It's especially interesting in the gospels where in many cases Jesus appears to have quoted the LXX.

I second the recommendation for McLay's book. This will whet your appetite for what you'll learn from reading it:

Chapter Six

Summary, Conclusions, and Prospects

The purpose of this volume has been to explore and explain the use of the LXX in NT research. Accomplishing this goal has required that we engage in two complementary tasks: (1) introducing the reader to the contemporary study of the Septuagint in its historical environment; and (2) incorporating the knowledge gleaned from the former into an examination of the use of the Scriptures in the NT.

We began our investigation with the citation of Amos 9:11–12 in Acts 15:16–18 and discovered that the NT relies on the OG [Old Greek] form of the text in order to make its point. The differences between the texts of the MT [Masoretic Text], OG, and NT initiated a variety of questions about the NT writers’ use and knowledge of the Scriptures, which were pursued throughout the remainder of our volume. The interdisciplinary nature of our subject meant that we did not approach it according to more traditional methods. A typical introduction to the Septuagint, for example, would outline the history of its textual transmission earlier in the volume than we did. [See N. Fernández Marcos, The Septuagint in Context (Leiden: Brill, 2001); K. Jobes and M. Silva, Invitation to the Septuagint (Grand Rapids: Baker, 2000); S. Jellicoe, The Septuagint and Modern Study (Oxford: Clarendon, 1968); and G. Dorival, M. Had, and O. Munnich, La Bible grecque des Septante (Paris: Éditions du Cerf, 1988), all of whom devote more time and space to Septuagint matters that were not as pertinent to us because of our concern for understanding the relationship between the LXX and NT.] Instead, we adopted an inductive approach that began with actual citations of Scripture in the NT in order to learn from the texts. Chapter two examined several passages in which the reading of the NT agreed with the OG, but not in any distinctive way that required that they were dependent upon the OG. The problem of distinguishing the use of the Greek from the Hebrew form of the Jewish Scriptures in the NT is exacerbated since the NT and LXX texts share a close relationship in their transmission. Due to the complex nature of these linguistic relationships we learned about TT [Translation Technique] and provided a model for the study of TT in chapter three. Though the study of TT is primarily an aid for understanding the LXX in relation to the HB [Hebrew Bible], there are also implications and uses for studying the NT citations. In chapter four we discovered that the production of additional versions and recensions of the LXX injects a further complication into understanding the use of Scripture in the NT. The evidence from the DSS offers a similar picture of the textual fluidity that existed among the manuscripts of the Hebrew Scriptures. Our knowledge of the multiplicity of text forms and the ways that the NT writers actually cited Scripture helps us to understand why some citations appear to have a mixed character and why we are unable to be certain about the source of others (Heb. 1:6).

Though there was no idea of a fixed canon during the first century, the Scriptures were central to Jewish thought and life, and there was an expectation that God would act on the behalf of his covenant people. We have argued it was within that context of hope that the Scriptures were reinterpreted in light of the person and ministry of Jesus. More specifically, in a context of textual pluriformity, it was the Jewish Scriptures as they were known, read, and interpreted in the Greek language that provide the basis for much, if not most, of the interpretive context of the NT writers. In the final chapter we demonstrated the significance of the findings of our study by giving a sustained argument for the influence of the Greek Jewish Scriptures on the NT. The vocabulary, citations of Scripture, and the theology reflected in the NT writings demonstrate the universal impact of the Greek Jewish Scriptures for the understanding of NT theology. None of these findings are remarkable. What is remarkable is the fact that there are many scholars and students who expend a great deal of energy in their study of the NT who have so little regard for the LXX as a means for helping to interpret the NT text!

Our investigations of passages such as 1 Corinthians 2:16; Hebrews 1:6; Acts 15:16–18 and the passages in the Gospel of Matthew demonstrated the distinct theological thinking of the NT writers that is not based in reading the MT. The reinterpretation of Amos 9:11–12 to mean that the house of David is restored through Jesus and that the gentiles will seek the Lord because of his resurrection depends on the OG. The passage in Hebrews 1:6 is much more complicated in terms of determining its source, but the author definitely relied on a text that is preserved in the Septuagint tradition. 1 Corinthians 2:16 offered insight into Paul’s understanding of the relationship between the believer and Christ and into the basis of the Apostle’s ethics. The examination of Matthew 12:40 and the theology of resurrection in 16:18; 27:52 that is unique to his Gospel revealed that it was rooted in Matthew’s use of the OG text of Jonah.

Nowadays, the DSS seem to have a cast a spell on our attention when it comes to understanding the background of the NT, while the LXX is too often ignored. How much more can be discovered about the imprint of the Greek translations of the Jewish Scriptures on the NT? How do we account for the extensive use of the Greek Jewish Scriptures by the NT writers? However we answer these questions, we should at least acknowledge that the LXX as a whole deserves far more attention in NT studies. Our analysis of Matthew’s theology is offered as one extended example of the way in which the understanding of the NT can be enriched by the study of the LXX. The data that we have unearthed in this small volume have also indicated that there is a great deal more to be learned. The question is, “How would our understanding of the NT be enhanced if we read the Greek Jewish Scriptures as the primary source for the interpretive and theological reflections of the NT writers?”

 

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 101
tfjern | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 7:12 AM

Keep it brief and relevant, please.

One thing you wrote is correct, though: "... the LXX is too often ignored." Hence, another reason to thank Logos for providing LXX scholars the chance to purchase "List of Septuagint Words...," and the sooner the better.

Posts 5429
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 8:48 AM

tfjern:

Remember, the LXX was, after all, the Bible of the early church.

...and thus begins the famine of the word.

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Posts 101
tfjern | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 9:26 AM

What the heck is that supposed to mean? Be brief, please, and relevant, too.

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 10:10 AM

Phil Gons:

2.  Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other controversial topics. Use one of the many web forums intended for these kinds of discussions.

3.  Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together.

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Posts 101
tfjern | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 11 2012 5:51 AM

One quick question, please. After ordering the book, the slider on the logos.com website on the relevant page, is moving steadily to the right, and now reads, "Almost There." What happens next? Just curious. I am eager to purchase this LXX work.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 11 2012 6:29 AM

Development. Possibly years. That's the most you'll know about it until it comes out of development.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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