Two prepubs of questionable value (in my opinion)

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Sep 5 2012 3:46 PM

There is a new prepub Grammar of Late Egyptian and one regarding Akkadian personal names.  I can see the Akkadian volume having some value, but the Egyptian grammar will only be of value to someone more into linguistics than I.  I am not inclucing links since that subjects it to moderation—just a heads-up.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 4:13 PM

George Somsel:

There is a new prepub Grammar of Late Egyptian and one regarding Akkadian personal names.  I can see the Akkadian volume having some value, but the Egyptian grammar will only be of value to someone more into linguistics than I.  I am not inclucing links since that subjects it to moderation—just a heads-up.

Duely noted. Point taken. Thanks.

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Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 4:39 PM

George, I'm not sure I agree with your assessment on the Egyptian grammar. Let's review the benefits this tome provides (below quoted from the Logos writeup):

(1) With Logos Bible Software, your research on Late Egyptian is easier than ever!

(2) As you read through this guide, you can cross-reference the text with Logos’ other Egyptian grammars and ancient texts, deepening your understanding of Late Egyptian words, phrases, and terms.

(3) This grammar will appear in your Passage Guide, giving you the answers you need when you need them.

Now seriously. There must be thousands of Logos people doing late egyptian research. Why do you dislike them so much?

Plus Logos has literally hundreds of other Egyptian grammars and ancient Egyptian texts (some early but not this grammar of course). Would YOU want to discourage all the Logos late egyptian grammar readers the chance to cross-referernce their grammars? I didn't think so.

And best of all, just how many Logos users will be able to BRAG that THEY have a LATE-EGYPTIAN section in their passage guide?  This ALONE has a major benefit.

But more seriously, I guess they did a cut/replace?? What's troubling is they have a hard time even introducing Crums (coptic).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 5:05 PM

DMB:

(1) With Logos Bible Software, your research on Late Egyptian is easier than ever!

(2) As you read through this guide, you can cross-reference the text with Logos’ other Egyptian grammars and ancient texts, deepening your understanding of Late Egyptian words, phrases, and terms.

(3) This grammar will appear in your Passage Guide, giving you the answers you need when you need them.

Big Smile

(I'm glad they have good relations with PBI, but I wish they used them for something slightly more useful.)

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 5:09 PM

Okay guys, enough humor at linguists' expense. Don't you need to know something about Egyptian folk love poetry to understand the Song of Songs?

Besides, Logos offers us:

Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts by James P. Allen

Ancient Egyptian Literature, ( 3 Volumes) by Miriam Lichtheim

Hymns, Prayers and Songs: An Anthology of Ancient Egyptian Lyric Poetry

Texts from the Pyramid Age

Letters from Ancient Egypt

Ancient Records of Egypt (5 vols.) by James Henry Breasted

Ancient Near Eastern Texts by James Pritchard

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 5:12 PM

fgh:
PBI, but I wish they used them for something slightly more useful.

Useful? remember they're catholicWink Besides it was a Jewish prof who had us reading Egyptian love poetry for the Song of Songs course (both in translation in my case.Embarrassed)

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 5:23 PM

MJ. Smith:

Okay guys, enough humor at linguists' expense. Don't you need to know something about Egyptian folk love poetry to understand the Song of Songs?

Besides, Logos offers us:

Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts by James P. Allen

Ancient Egyptian Literature, ( 3 Volumes) by Miriam Lichtheim

Hymns, Prayers and Songs: An Anthology of Ancient Egyptian Lyric Poetry

Texts from the Pyramid Age

Letters from Ancient Egypt

Ancient Records of Egypt (5 vols.) by James Henry Breasted

Ancient Near Eastern Texts by James Pritchard

And Lichtheim is contained in The Context of Scripture so I have it twice.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 5:26 PM

DMB:
George, I'm not sure I agree with your assessment on the Egyptian grammar. Let's review the benefits this tome provides (below quoted from the Logos writeup):

I can recommend a good surgeon to assist you in you lingual difficulties.  It must be difficult to speak with your tongue so firmly planted.  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 8:40 AM

MJ. Smith:
enough humor at linguists' expense

My humor wasn't at the expense of linguists, but at the expense of Logos' marketing.

MJ. Smith:

Besides, Logos offers us:

Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts by James P. Allen

Ancient Egyptian Literature, ( 3 Volumes) by Miriam Lichtheim

Hymns, Prayers and Songs: An Anthology of Ancient Egyptian Lyric Poetry

Texts from the Pyramid Age

Letters from Ancient Egypt

Ancient Records of Egypt (5 vols.) by James Henry Breasted

Ancient Near Eastern Texts by James Pritchard

I haven't studied even the TOC's of those books, but it doesn't look like there are any "other Egyptian grammars" on that list.

MJ. Smith:
Useful? remember they're catholicWink

OK, you're allowed to some fun at Catholics' expense. Big Smile (And on mine, for that matter.) 

That said, I would still imagine e g Biblica to be more useful to Logos' current userbase than an Egyptian grammar. 

 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 8:54 AM

fgh:
That said, I would still imagine e g Biblica to be more useful to Logos' current userbase than an Egyptian grammar. 

I would second that (or third, fourth, fifth … it).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 9:44 AM

To avoid having to visit a dental surgeon for tongue-in-cheek disease, and to at least help redeem the potential value of the Late Egyptian grammar, this quote below comes from http://www.logos.com/product/7871/a-concise-coptic-english-lexicon  I highlighted some of the interesting points (sadly they emphasize the importance of Crums ... indeed even Logos.com says the same).

"The words are alphabetized, as in Crum’s dictionary, primarily by root consonants and then by the vowels within the structure of consonants. A glance down the first dozen or so words under B, for example, should make the system clear. Words having an initial vowel are alphabetized by that vowel and then by the consonantal root. This system is practical because the root of a Coptic word is its consonants. Thus all forms, derivatives and variant spellings can be placed under one main entry. Since a primary concern of this lexicon is to be helpful to students, many forms that are difficult to recognize are cross-listed, a brief definition is given, and the abbreviation v. directs attention to the the main entry.'  

I don't know to what degree 'Late Egyptian' connects to the coptic in the grammar. I suspect George is right. Maybe one of our forum members is a copticologist. I do notice we don't have a coptic grammar either (that I can find).

 And since we've managed to work our way from the Late Egyptian to the coptic, this would then lead to an excellent CP: http://www.logos.com/product/24987/early-egyptian-monasticism-collection (some of which is housed with the Coptic church).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 3094
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 10:42 AM

MJ. Smith:

And don't forget Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Schemes by B. Madoff.

Stick out tongue

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 1:21 PM

Doc B:
Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Schemes by B. Madoff.

Big Smile

Okay, I'll be honest. I'd put texts, grammars and lexicons in Old Church Slavonic, Gothic and Sogdian ahead of Egyptian for my personal use. But the Egyptian might be fun,

Sad storyCrying: when PB's first came out I did actually try to convert a Sogdian textbook into a PB. However, neither OCR nor Logos really seemed ready for intermingled Enlish-Sogdian scripts. I should have tried the Gothic.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 1:34 PM

MJ. Smith:

Doc B:
Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Schemes by B. Madoff.

Big Smile

Okay, I'll be honest. I'd put texts, grammars and lexicons in Old Church Slavonic, Gothic and Sogdian ahead of Egyptian for my personal use. But the Egyptian might be fun,

Sad storyCrying: when PB's first came out I did actually try to convert a Sogdian textbook into a PB. However, neither OCR nor Logos really seemed ready for intermingled Enlish-Sogdian scripts. I should have tried the Gothic.

OK, I'll admit it.  I'm envious of your knowledge of such esoterica.  Ick!

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 4:16 PM

MJ. Smith:
Okay, I'll be honest. I'd put texts, grammars and lexicons in Old Church Slavonic, Gothic and Sogdian ahead of Egyptian for my personal use.

You ought to come here some time and have a look at the Silver Bible. Big Smile

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 33796
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 7:42 PM

George Somsel:
OK, I'll admit it.  I'm envious of your knowledge of such esoterica. 

You can always join me. I've added a link in the Web Resources reading list to the Comprehensive Bibliography on Syriac Christianity http://csc.org.il/db/db.aspx?db=SB and added a Christian-Sogdian reading list. Unfortunately, I'm a bit short on Logos links.Sad

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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