Question for those who use highlighting...

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David | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Sep 26 2012 6:18 PM

I was curious. For those who use highlighting on the PC, would any of you want to have all of the text included in the notes file instead of part of it with an ellipse? Currently on the iPad, it includes all of the text in the highlight. To me, this is the standard behavior of other highlighting apps (e.g. Kindle). I use this is all the time to review what I read. However, in talking with Logos, they state that the iPad currently has a bug, and it will be changed to match the Mac and PC versions. Is there anyone in agreement with me that all of the text should be included? Thanks.

Dave

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 26 2012 6:44 PM

David Schlup:
would any of you want to have all of the text included in the notes file instead of part of it

Some notes having all the text could be helpful but in some cases the selection is too long for me to want to scroll through the entire text to get to the note.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 26 2012 7:05 PM

Dave - 

I posted this in your other thread:

The iPad behavior is a bug or limitation of the mobile app. The line that you are referring to is actually the TITLE of the note. Personally, I think it would be great if there were another line added to each highlighting note for the quote. Additionally, different views could be added so that only the quote line could be viewed.

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John Fugh, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 26 2012 7:20 PM

I've made this comment a while back.  http://community.logos.com/forums/p/45032/354257.aspx

Two reasons:

(1) I would LOVE to have this be the case because when I study a passage, I want to print out all the highlights from a book so I have them in one place.  I know that this can be done with clippings, but (a) clippings do not seem intuitive to me and (b) clippings are not available on the iOS devices.

(2) Searching notes for highlighted text is IMPOSSIBLE unless it has the entire text that was highlighted.  When searching for through a book for highlights while using wildcards -- e.i. * text that is highlighted in red -- it may take 30 minutes or more.

I don't think that people should be able to highlight pages and pages.  I understand that this would be difficult.  But please consider giving us more than six words separated by an ellipses.  Maybe a couple hundred words.

 

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Dan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 6:59 AM

John Fugh, Jr.:

(2) Searching notes for highlighted text is IMPOSSIBLE unless it has the entire text that was highlighted.  When searching for through a book for highlights while using wildcards -- e.i. * text that is highlighted in red -- it may take 30 minutes or more.

I don't think that people should be able to highlight pages and pages.  I understand that this would be difficult.  But please consider giving us more than six words separated by an ellipses.  Maybe a couple hundred words.

AGREED!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 12:22 PM

John Fugh, Jr.:
I don't think that people should be able to highlight pages and pages.

To me the question is less highlighting than selecting ... I need to be able to select the longest pericope or meta-pericope. If, for example, I am preparing material to go with the Lectio Divina Study Bible, some pericopes are 2-3 chapters long. Others are a few verses. Any solution must meet both needs.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 1:44 PM

David Schlup:
would any of you want to have all of the text included in the notes file instead of part of it with an ellipse?

No, I do not want the whole text in the title. And I don't want Logos limiting how much I choose to highlight (no matter what they picked either my need or someone else's need would be different on an occasion & we'd become unhappy). But I wouldn't mind having all the text included in the body of the note... & would actually like (not just "not mind") having the text in the body WITH the ability to either show/hide or collapse/uncollapse the text as desired.

Most often, I put the note highlights into a separate file from any actual notes I put in about the same text. Text notes, i'll want to keep. Highlight notes, I don't want to keep & having them separate makes it easier to get rid of when I've moved on to some other study/sermon/teaching project & no longer want it displayed or even want it. (I like to let the Spirit speak to me EACH time I go thru & do highlights. I don't want to just use what I already used.)

Grace & Peace,
Bill


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David | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 4:22 PM

Bill,

It seems to me that Logos is combining two functions into one notes file - Highlighting and Notes. To me, having a shortened title of a note makes sense since you will obviously be adding to the note itself. However, highlighting to me is a different function. I use highlighting as a way to review the most important material away from the text itself. These different functions are evident on the Logos iPad app where you have the ability to make a selection either a highlight or a note. Interestingly, when you highlight on the iPad, you are not allowed to initially enter a note. I believe they did this because highlighting and notes are different functions.

Olive Tree and Kindle both have separate highlighting, and I know Kindle keeps all of the highlighting in a separate "notes" file. Even though Logos is also a desktop app, I believe they understand that there are different functions for the user.

I would recommend to Logos that the user could have the ability just to highlight, and it keeps all of the content of that highlight for searching, review, export, etc. A second function would be to create a note (via highlighting), where the text of the highlight is shortened and a note could be easily added. Bottom line, I feel highlighting and note taking should be treated as different functions.

Dave

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BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 4:56 PM

Hi David,

If I'm understanding you, I'm already doing what you suggest: notes in a different file from highlighting--even though Logos doesn't require you to do this. I hear you that you're suggesting by default that they not even try to allow one note to do both functions.

However, if I chose to use the 1 file for both, I'd feel like MJ Smith, who posted:

MJ. Smith:
Some notes having all the text could be helpful but in some cases the selection is too long for me to want to scroll through the entire text to get to the note.


and later posted:

MJ. Smith:
To me the question is less highlighting than selecting ... I need to be able to select the longest pericope or meta-pericope. If, for example, I am preparing material to go with the Lectio Divina Study Bible, some pericopes are 2-3 chapters long. Others are a few verses. Any solution must meet both needs.

And I agree with Alabama 24:

alabama24:
I think it would be great if there were another line added to each highlighting note for the quote.


However, I DON'T want a few hundred lines in the TITLE of the note.... Text? OK... don't really want that permanently turned on, either, if you're ever going to make me look at that note & find anything... It's John's suggestion I was trying to counter:

John Fugh, Jr.:
I don't think that people should be able to highlight pages and pages. I understand that this would be difficult. But please consider giving us more than six words separated by an ellipses. Maybe a couple hundred words.

 

Grace & Peace,
Bill


Asus GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 5:02 PM

David Schlup:
It seems to me that Logos is combining two functions into one notes file - Highlighting and Notes.

Notes which in Logos tradition are highlighted with an icon, highlights which until L4 had no text  and clippings are rightly abstracted into a single high level function which has 3 sub-functions - notes, clippings, highlights. Whether or not this means combining the files for notes and highlights controlled by the user. With the syncing function, the file format and content must be the same across all platforms although some platforms are ahead or behind in implementation.

David Schlup:
I feel highlighting and note taking should be treated as different functions.

While it would be possible to make it look to the user as if they were separate, actually separating them would do nothing but create duplicate code for maintenance. The highlighting "note" is simply one piece of data attached to the information needed to keep the data sync'ed between devices. It isn't necessary to use the note field

David Schlup:
I use highlighting as a way to review the most important material away from the text itself.

This is how I use clippings (among other things). Have you tried them to see if they meet your need? For some they will, for others not.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 234
David | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 5:50 PM

Good discussion. I appreciate your responses. You are helping me to understand how others are using Logos! I do understand that technically both notes and highlights should be in the same file. However, functionally, I believe Logos should allow the user to interact with them differently.

The Logos iPad app I believe has it right. When you select the text, it allows you to create either 1) a highlight 2) a note. Both functions actually highlight the text, but the user is prompted differently depending on what they chose.

In my opinion, a highlight should just be a highlight where all of its text is stored in some type of "notes" file. Highlighting, to me, is for the same reason I underline in a book. I want to bring attention to something important, review it later, or even search on it. I am definitely not wanting to take notes on everything I highlight.  Even if this needs to be technically stored in the same place with other notes, I would want to be able to filter them out in some way.

In addition, I do feel that when you highlight, you should have the ability to create an actual "note." This would highlight the text, put a notes icon next to it, truncate the title, and then allow you to enter in your own notes. Again, when you look at the actual "notes" file, you could filter it by viewing Highlights, Notes, or Both.

The reality is that people use Logos for different reasons and combining notes and highlighting on the user end seems to limit one side or the other. Honestly, the Logos iPad app is perfect. It makes a lot of sense, and I would model the desktop version after it in some way. The iPad app does currently include all of the text in the title for both highlighting and notes. Logos claims this is a bug. I would modify it so that the highlighting function includes all the text, but the notes function truncates the text in some way. It is also possible to allow the user to chose certain settings in preferences (e.g. include all highlighted text) related to highlighting and notes.

Dave

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 5:55 PM

David Schlup:
It seems to me that Logos is combining two functions into one notes file - Highlighting and Notes.

I think the other forum members have written this, but just to reiterate... The user (you) are the one who is combining the two together. You can create as many notes and highlighting files as you want and keep them completely separate.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 5:57 PM

David Schlup:
I do understand that technically both notes and highlights should be in the same file.

I dont think anyone said that. Rather, "under the hood" so to speak, notes & highlighting are identical. 

David Schlup:
In my opinion, a highlight should just be a highlight where all of its text is stored in some type of "notes" file.

Great! So do that. Do you need help setting it up?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 6:36 PM

David Schlup:
The reality is that people use Logos for different reasons and combining notes and highlighting on the user end seems to limit one side or the other.

Yes, we all come at it from the way we use it. To me, combining the notes and highlights opens more flexibility because the user can still set defaults to keep them separate. What I would be interested to hear is why you don't find clippings satisfactory for the full-text which seems to be the crux of your usability problem.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 234
David | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 6:41 PM

Alabama,

Thanks for your clarification. I do know how to setup separate notes files. Honestly, I primarily use the iPad for my highlighting. It is so simple to use. The reason I started this thread is because Logos stated they were taking away keeping all of the text in the highlight on the iPad at some point. This would pretty much eliminate how I use the product to-date for note taking. I tried the copying text first and then pasting on the iPad. It would not be a realistic solution because of how it currently functions and would really disrupt any flow of reading.

The other problem is that on the desktop version it doesn't keep any of the text, so I would constantly have to copy, locate the note, and paste just to highlight when I'm reading. That would be a real hassle. If Logos could just make this a user preference (Keep All Text in Title When Highlighting - Yes/No), that would seem to solve the issue for most people. I also like your idea of having a separate line for the highlighted text. That would work also.

Dave

Posts 234
David | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 6:56 PM

M.J.

Good question. For one, there is not a clippings option on the iPad. I use that primarily for reading. Second, as far as I can tell, clippings doesn't inherently highlight the text. It would require double functions. I guess I just wanted to simply highlight something important and have it available for review at a later point.:)

Dave

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John Fugh, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 7:04 PM

David Schlup:
I guess I just wanted to simply highlight something important and have it available for review at a later point.:)

 

This is what I want too.  I know I may be in the minority, but when I highlight a book, I want all the highlights to be in one file with the complete highlighted text there.  The major reason is if I want to search through the highlights for key words.  Search truncated note files is impossible and the search feature is all but unusable when it comes to highlights.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 27 2012 7:20 PM

John Fugh, Jr.:
This is what I want too.  I know I may be in the minority,

It sounds to me like what you want is for clippings to allow a highlighting function which is something I would like as well although for different reasons. It would be worth putting your request into the suggestions forum and link to this thread. Logos will pick the request up from the suggestions forum - they may or may not from here.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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