Selling Logos 4 rather than upgrading to Logos 5

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This post has 249 Replies | 11 Followers

Posts 284
Claude Brown Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 8:25 PM

Gord Berta:

I though it was just me, as you said 4 was laced with broken promises, and I still harbor ill feeling for helping beta test for over a year, and not as much as a personal 'thank you' let alone a copy of the engine we worked on for over a year.

Logos is all for Logos, money first, money first, then more money.  I will support WordSearch from this day forward. 

Wow we are really emotional over software?

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 8:44 PM

Claude Brown Jr:
Wow we are really emotional over software?

Just a bit (or is it a byte?).  Big Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 284
Claude Brown Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 8:56 PM

George Somsel:

 

You might have been better off waiting for the free engine and purchasing the crossgrade since that would give you all of the data base addins while the Starter Pack only gives you 1 (If I remember correctly). 

Okay now I am confused. When I go to the "personalized' upgrade page on the website it indicates that I will not get all the database addins without purchasing at least the 'Gold"? For me that will be an additional 800.00 because unless I am mistaken you can not use the engine without the database addins which are called "datasets" at the end of the comparison charts called feature distribution? There reportedly 53 of them. To get them all would require the purchase of at least Platinum Upgrade for an additional $1200.00. Am I missing something?

Posts 18
John Bass | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 9:03 PM

I think you are right on target.  I have been reading a lot of the posts complaining that somehow they are getting cheated by a requirement to spend a huge sum of money to buy a package they already own.  For those who think this is the case, after lots of reading and my own personal choice to purchase a package BEFORE the minimal engine is available...

YOU DON'T LOSE A THING!   Every book I had in Logos 4 is still there in Logos 5.  Who cares what they call it.

The money I spent was mostly investing in books for my library that I didn't already have.  The personal calculator makes it VERY clear.  You can see all the books or JUST WHAT IS NEW TO YOUR COLLECTION.   It adds books to your collection.  It does not take any away.

If you don't want any new books, then buy the bottom upgrade or wait for the minimal engine to be released.  Really...If you are pretty happy with Logos 4 then you really haven't lost anything if you don't upgrade to Logos 5.

I am really so tired of hearing some people bashing Logos.  I have limited funds and I can't expense out my purchases.  What I buy comes out of my discretionary income.  I have used several other packages and ebooks.  None of them hold a candle to what Logos does.  In my experience, Logos has always been up front and honest with us.  Sure, they make mistakes...don't you?  But they own up to them and they seem to always keep the customer in mind.  More than I can same about some other providers I have worked with.

Ultimately, if you don't like Logos than you have to make some tough choices.  But don't blame logos for them.  If you're upset because they didn't release an app when PROJECTED then you probably haven't done software development.  Neither have I, but I have lots of friends who work for companies that do and I understand there are huge variables out there that control a release.  Ultimately, I would rather wait for a good release than get an early release that is really buggy. 

IMHO Logos is one of the best companies I have dealt with -- and no, I don't work for them and neither do any of my friends or family.  I just think they are honorable and are workmen worthy of their earnings. Yes

 

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 9:08 PM

Claude Brown Jr:
When I go to the "personalized' upgrade page on the website it indicates that I will not get all the database addins without purchasing at least the 'Gold"? For me that will be an additional 800.00 because unless I am mistaken you can not use the engine without the database addins which are called "datasets" at the end of the comparison charts called feature distribution? There reportedly 53 of them. To get them all would require the purchase of at least Platinum Upgrade for an additional $1200.00. Am I missing something?

Official: Minimum Crossgrade and free engine download are coming!

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 9:15 PM

Claude Brown Jr:
Okay now I am confused. When I go to the "personalized' upgrade page on the website it indicates that I will not get all the database addins without purchasing at least the 'Gold"? For me that will be an additional 800.00 because unless I am mistaken you can not use the engine without the database addins which are called "datasets" at the end of the comparison charts called feature distribution? There reportedly 53 of them. To get them all would require the purchase of at least Platinum Upgrade for an additional $1200.00. Am I missing something?

Unless I'm confused myself, you will get all of the datasets if you purchase the minimal crossgrade.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 15805
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 9:28 PM

Claude Brown Jr:
To get them all would require the purchase of at least Platinum Upgrade for an additional $1200.00. Am I missing something?

Once Swete's LXX resource with Reverse Interlinear tagging is released, then Logos 5 "Gold" package has all the resources with data content to use all the Logos 5 features; see thread => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58242/414599.aspx#414599  Once Swete's LXX is released, Bronze and higher could use Bible Word Study Septuagint feature.  Note: if already have Rahlfs LXX in your Logos Library, then the Bible Word Study feature for Septuagint translation would be usable regardless of upgrade choice.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 1:05 AM

Well, personally, I think you Georgie Somsel should have at least got a pat on the back if not one on the top of the head for all  your contributions to Logos.  (Well, you did say meager I think) Some would have been so overwhelmed in not getting recognition, some of the some might have hurled themselves out in front of a parked bus!!!? 

As for me & my house, I'll say a big thank you for the time you did spend in helping out with this project!!!

Posts 403
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 5:09 AM

BS:

I've been a Logos customer for over eight years.  I've decided that I won't be upgrading to Logos 5.  The broken promises surrounding the Logos 4 release (especially the pre-publication feature advertised as "coming soon" and it turning out to be over a year), and the Logos 5 marketing strategy have left a bad taste in my mouth.

In order to maintain the "platinum" package label I'd have to drop over $600, and not get anything I really want or need.  Sure, I would get a few books, but very little I'd even consider purchasing separately.  

Does anyone know if the $20 fee to transfer your license to someone else is a one time blanket fee for the entire transaction, or is it per package, or per resource or what?  I have Logos 4 Platinum, Word Biblical Commentary, and the HALOT/BDAG bundle. Would that be three times $20 to sell everything?  Or just $20 if it all went to one buyer?  

I was a Logos user since they shipped product on floppy disks and I too felt like L4 was a complete mess and everyone at Logos was in denial.  I found myself questioning the business model, as it appeared to be based on greed rather than making good on their word.  There are things that were promised that we would have in L4 that were never delivered and the choice that Logos made to program their software about as inefficiently as possible to require massive computing power to use just made me sick to my stomach.

I recently gave my Logos 4 away.  Logos did not charge me a dime to transfer all of my resources to another party.  The bad taste in my mouth is gone and I could care less how good or bad Logos 5 is.  I feel like I had a giant boil on my netherparts lanced and drained, and now I'm getting all healed up.

Peter, John, Paul, Luke, Matthew, Mark.... none of these folks had Logos and they did just fine.

After my very long Logos experience, I will never be able to recommend Logos software to anyone.  The company doesn't keep their word, and that reflects the character of the entire company, no matter how "nice" they seem.

To answer your question, in my case they were going to charge $20 to transfer all of my resources, and I had purchased many, many add-on titles over the years.  I feel so much better having rid myself of something that was a bother to me for so long that mere words can't express how happy I am to be rid of it all.  The person that received the resources is happy as they got the whole enchilada for free, so if Logos crashes and burns, they are not out a dime.  I was never going to be in that place, having paid for the privilege of getting hosed.

And they lived happily ever after.  The end.

 

Posts 297
JC54 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 5:18 AM

BS,

I am sorry that you want to leave Logos, but I would be interested in buying your package if you do.

Greetings

Joren Menkveld

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 5:18 AM

So what are you using now for a Bible program since you hurled Logos out through the window (or was that the door)?

Posts 3314
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 5:46 AM

Look for all the BS (excuse the initials but I really get tired of some the consistent posters on the Forums its why I don't participate often) I've read on here- there are a lot of us who have spent 30k plus in building their library over the years, and to be told you need to now spend an additional 1600.00 to stay with the package you already own was hard to take.

Was it a Logos BLUNDER- YES!!!- I didn't like it either when I called and was told approx. 2000.00 to upgrade. Almost fell over- I asked for what? Site was down so nobody could say.

Finally site came up and I was able to see what was included- I was not impressed; you can keep all your "ministry" titles never use them, most of the items were prepubs- I did not even want the first time around; very few new titles I even wanted.

So where did that leave me- in a lurch- until Bob finally posted what I wanted to hear- wait there will be a crossover or minimal upgrade offered, ok I can live with that.

There should have been a announced roll-out- not a "surprise" roll-out; they should have made sure they could either by site or email, let every inquirer see their choices, and  given them a week or two,  to think and make "rational" decisions; they could have set a prepub page for each level and allowed the purchases to be done in an orderly manner. There are many other things I would have done differently.

Bob, next time call me I'll save you a lot of headaches!

This is all I have to say on the matter- waiting for the minimal upgrade- and yes I have deleted prepubs and CP items in order to pay for it.

Have a great day folks, God Bless

 

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 6:25 AM

Bootjack ... that's an interesting verb you used. 'Hurl'. If you read the apostolic fathers (I forget which one and I don't have 'Clause Search' even though 'hurl' isn't a clause), Satan actually 'hurls' believers from their faith.

Through the years I've certainly seen books on Satan etc. But I've never seen the graphic process analyzed!  If it's your usual NT commentary, they'd be describing the greek Olympic games and I guess Satan with a believer in his hand, like some sort of javelin or discus. I've gotten so used to commentaries, I can write them before I read them.

But it illustrates the best part of Logos: books!

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 6:52 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:
There should have been a announced roll-out- not a "surprise" roll-out
YesFor an example, we all knew that MS was coming out with Windows 8 and its many flavors.

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 6:57 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:
There should have been a announced roll-out- not a "surprise" roll-out

YesYes

 

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:36 AM

BS:
justifying the huge expense as being for 'the Kingdom' (rightly or wrongly)

Maybe your perspective is all jumbled up. I buy Logos software because I like what it does and want resources I can not get anywhere else. If you are going to apply the "kingdom filter" to everything Logos, I would be interested in seeing how that filter works on golf clubs, motorcycles, dining out at fine restaurants, expensive vehicles, and  vacations,..      Why can't something be done for the sheer joy of it.

I am happy to see the new base packages and have the opportunity to buy more resources that will bring me more enjoyment. I find the Roy Gingrich Commentaries, the Second Temple Period Collection, and the History of Israel Collection make my L5 Portfolio upgrade worthwhile. I do not ascribe any nefarious motives to Logos. I only wish they had called it the "Kryptonite" base package.  Star

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 8:26 AM

Super Tramp:
I only wish they had called it the "Kryptonite" base package.
But, Matthew, that would have been poison to Supermen like me. Sorry, but this isn't working right—where did the emoticons go. Also, I had to set up the quote myself rather than simply highlighting and clicking on "Quote." You see, wandering in the wilderness is an educational experience, not simply punishment.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 3916
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 8:51 AM

 

Whyndell Grizzard:
Have a great day folks, God Bless

Thanks, Whyndell, I will !

 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 284
Claude Brown Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 1:53 PM

George Somsel:

Unless I'm confused myself, you will get all of the datasets if you purchase the minimal crossgrade.

Right that's what I thought too until I noticed something called feature distribution underneath the datasets. So I am still confused as these seem to be onl available with the purchases already mention. It seems to me that even if I have the datasets I still will not have functionality of them unless I also have the feature distribution?

Posts 284
Claude Brown Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 2:02 PM

fgh:

I understand that but it does not address what appears to be a [three tier] approach requiring not just a minimum crossgrade and free engine download but an upgrade in-order to get full functionality of the 'new' product. In other words this is a different product regardless of the books offered. I do see though that the misunderstanding may very well lie within me, so maybe the best course of action is to wait until the 'on the come' is available.

In the meantime is there any one out there who can advise me on the best Windows configuration for the Logos experience?

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