Selling Logos 4 rather than upgrading to Logos 5

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This post has 249 Replies | 11 Followers

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 8:14 PM

BTW, I do appreciate Bobs company dilemmas, not an easy chair he sits in.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 8:28 PM

fgh:
Don't offend my Corolla. It's a very good car.Big Smile

I was thinking the same thing.  I used to have a Toyota Corolla SR-5 Liftback with a 5-speed manual transmission—metalic hunter green.  It was not a sports car precisely, but it had that feel until a druggie t-boned me.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 8:42 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
Right now it's 600.00 for me to move down, less to move further down or, 1200. 00 to stay about the same level

You're not making sense. The equivalent level to Scholar's is Bronze. The full prize for Bronze is $629.95. Yours must be much lower.

And if you prefer an upgrade over the Crossgrade, why not upgrade your Catholic package instead?

I have Platinum plus everything but two books in what used to be the highest Catholic package. I will in all likelihood go for Capstone and have no particular intention to buy any 'Protestant' upgrade at all. If I should ever sell it, I will simply sell it as "Platinum (JG) + Capstone + many additional resources". That's what it is. Your Scholar's (JG) doesn't stop being Scholar's (JG) just because you add Starter (IH?). That would be like saying your Mercedes stops being a Mercedes because you put on a roof-rack from Walmart (or wherever you buy such cheaply in the US).

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 9:00 PM

Excuse me, you are correct, it "only" 450+ for me to say at the same level. Funny thing is I already have 90% of it.

Yes to the Catholic upgrade if there is anything there worth the money/resource exchange, but for now, there is no upgrade calculator for that.

I still will not, would not spend 450.00 to get , for the most part, what I already have ( that still does not work correctly btw-smile).

Apple charges me very little to get a great deal in an upgrade, Accordance does the same.

I think with Logos it's really the Publisher pressure along with the other issues that is making this so hard for people like myself.

Many of us just cannot justify the cost.

I may wait on the cross grade , might update catholic collection, might just sell it and move on.

It's been a really rough road for me with Logos.

Not picking on anyone, just stating facts as I am one of those that has had near constant problems, crashes etc.

I hope 5 works better for everyone and, wish everyone the best.

I studied Logos for six months before buying, the forum members convinced me the threads I was reading were fluke events and most had little to know trouble and the software was great.

It just never worked out that way for me.

Again, not being ugly. Like I said, they have lots of things to look at, people to deal with , publishers to deal with.

I gave up on mine working correctly and just use what does work- basically an e-reader, do everything else on other platforms and my books.

5 Seems to be better for most.

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 9:10 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
Excuse me, you are correct, it "only" 450+ for me to say at the same level. Funny thing is I already have 90% of it.

Then I don't think the price is correct. You should call them.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
Yes to the Catholic upgrade if there is anything there worth the money/resource exchange, but for now, there is no upgrade calculator for that.

There is if you go to the product pages. (Plus I hope you saw about the -15% coupon code.)

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
Apple charges me very little to get a great deal in an upgrade,

And Logos charges you $0.00, if you just take the engine update (which is all that Apple will give you).

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 165
Wayne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 12:10 AM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

This too is an investment, if something happens, I may need to liquidate this investment.

Ok, If Logos wants me to upgrade to version 5 , but to do so without buying things I do not need, my "title" is the Starter Collection.

Starter collection by name is not very easy to sell.

It's not ego, it's not pride.

There is a huge difference between trying to sell a used Mercedes and a used Toyota Corolla.

Logos, you are messing with our investments future, we do not get to mess around with yours, please do not continue to do so with ours.

Somebody here is goings to say: Yea, but you have all those titles!

And i can tell you most people are not even going to read the names of all of them just like they don't now.

They look at level of Library and Scholars looks way more inviting the "Starter, beginner, home

This brings up an interesting thought: Does the resale of Logos depend on what package we own or books and sets? What would have happened if Logos had kept the gold set intact and just added new packages? I think that the L4 gold package would have lost value as it would not have had the latest features and data sets. 

If you are buying books outside the packages then it appears that your most "prestigious" sets and books would determine your value.

I would of course resell Logos if the situation demanded.  But I don't think that I could get anywhere close to the $4,000 that I have invested (spent) in my Logos library. I gave away all my print books as it was a prohibitive expense to ship them to an English speaking country. I am sure that I had way more than $4,000 in those books. So that has conditioned me not to think of books as an investment, but rather as an expense.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 4:50 AM

Fgh, thanks.

Apple gives a great deal more than an engine update, a couple hundred new features is far more than an engine update for 50.00 bucks.

I am not showing any update paths in the Catholic collections or titles.

I'm signed in, guess i'm doing something wrong.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 4:55 AM

Note: No, still no upgrade calculator for Catholic Collections "per Logos", they are working on it.

Posts 143
iamk | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 6:36 AM

To the OP: I'm with you on this. I cannot express, without being probably a little sinful, how disappointed I am with this company. I was told that if I want the standard features of the upgraded engine I need to purchase the new gold for around $500. Funny though, the phone support didn't even mention the cross-grade option. 

With a company like Logos, trust and harmony are actually more important than constantly expanding features. The reason for this is because they house our resources and our entire library depends on them for things to function. We are virtually helpless without their support, their cloud, etc. So when we feel like we are being pulled around and coerced into paying their fees, we will break the relationship and go elsewhere.

To the forum helper guys who are reading and salivating right now, ready to pounce on me: I do consider this a fee. L4 for Mac never ran like a finished piece of software. Now I need to pay more money to get the speed that I should have had to start with. What a joke.

Yea I know, they said they will keep supporting L4. But supporting a broken piece of software with little patches for the next few months before they abandon it doesn't count. 

Just had a thought: what if Logos' engine was always truly free, but they sold modules and feature sets. That way they could still develop and sell new features, but people could also keep their engine stripped down and always access their books. We could invest as heavily or as lightly as we wanted. Maybe in a way, that's what they are doing...

Posts 5573
Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 6:59 AM

iamk:
I was told that if I want the standard features of the upgraded engine I need to purchase the new gold for around $500. Funny though, the phone support didn't even mention the cross-grade option. 

This isn't quite right. Standard features come with the free engine. If you want to get all the new functionality of Logos5 you need Gold or above. If you wait for the free engine (coming) you'll keep all the functionality you have now in Logos4. Perhaps you misunderstood, perhaps a salesperson misspoke or was uninformed, or we could quibble about what is "standard" and what is "new" re Logos5

iamk:
Just had a thought: what if Logos' engine was always truly free, but they sold modules and feature sets. That way they could still develop and sell new features, but people could also keep their engine stripped down and always access their books. We could invest as heavily or as lightly as we wanted. Maybe in a way, that's what they are doing...

There is a crossgrade coming that should address your concerns here. They are working on it and deciding what will be included and how to price it. There may be more than one option to choose from. The crossgrade will give you some or all of the new features of Logos5 without having to purchase a Gold package.

EDIT: I didn't address your frustration over the Mac version of this software. I'm a Windows user, and have watched the Mac threads occasionally, and so I am not surprised by your frustration. However, I am seeing that Mac users are liking Logos5 very much, and tend to see it as a noticeable improvement over Logos4. Maybe you could look for some of those posts, or maybe an Mac user will chime in here. Alternatively you could start a new thread and ask Mac users how they compare Logos4 and Logos5.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 7:04 AM

Now, iamk, that's not really true. We're not ALL virtually helpless without Logos servers, etc.

If users had a bit of foresight, they'd keep their Libronix's nice and healthy and fed well. Out of about $14K in purchases, my Libronix is missing about 4 books that I care about.

And I expect 'the Lib' to be nice and healthy for at least 10 more years (running in a Virtual Box).  And with Valerie Dana (I hope I remembered her name) breaking up collections, 'the Lib' is getting fat and sassy with even more great volumes!

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 7:10 AM

iamk:
Just had a thought: what if Logos' engine was always truly free, but they sold modules and feature sets. That way they could still develop and sell new features, but people could also keep their engine stripped down and always access their books. We could invest as heavily or as lightly as we wanted. Maybe in a way, that's what they are doing...

You are right, That's what they are doing. In a short while the engine will be free. You will then be able to add the cross grade on top of that. You can hold out a short while (not sure how to define that time frame until the engine is provided) and have everything you have paid for in the past (Logos 4) running in Logos 5 without paying a penny.

I'm sure there is room to debate marketing strategy especially when it comes to what you were told on the phone. But lets say you reluctantly forked out $400 for an upgrade only to find out they gave the engine away 15 days later. Logos will completely refund the $400 and you can run the free engine.

iamk:
To the forum helper guys who are reading and salivating right now, ready to pounce on me: I do consider this a fee.

Certainly not salivating. However the whole purpose of the forum is for us to discuss Logos. You share your opinion and I share mine. Both of us are free to ignore any posts we want to. As long as we strive to have this exchange in a godly manner that honors our Lord I think the Logos community benefits.

Posts 143
iamk | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 7:36 AM

Great replies guys. Thanks. The phone help did tell me that I would need to purchase Gold to have the feature set of L5. That's what was bugging me. Hopefully the cross-grade option will suffice.

DMB- you are right. We are not helpless. We do feel very dependent on Logos and their cloud. Maybe that's a better way of stating it.

Halo- the salivating comment doesn't apply to you guys. I should have stated that differently also. I have something I've seen to which I'm referring. It's like the spiritual nazis or logos nazis want to defend the company almost disregarding obvious issues (not calling people nazis. this is a joke from Seinfield's soup nazi).

thanks for the replies guys

Posts 67
Richard Koons | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 1:01 PM

I agree with Gord but am reserving my final decision until the cross over is available does anyone know if the books for L4 will be upgraded to 5 as well? If not then I am probably basically out 5000.00 bucks and of course as with the software named above and perhaps another popular software for language studies may be a cheaper route but again am awaiting the cross-over (i.e. true upgrade) before my final decision

Posts 98
Joshua Coady | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 1:07 PM

L4 and L5 use the same format for books and you will still have all of your existing books after upgrade even if you just do the minimum crossgrade when it becomes available.

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 1:12 PM

Richard Koons:
does anyone know if the books for L4 will be upgraded to 5 as well? If not then I am probably basically out 5000.00 bucks

This is not an issue ever.

First, you own the books.

Second, Logos has labored hard at backward compatability. AFAIK, L5 will still read the old LXF format that was in Logos 2.

Third, Logos is actively reworking it's older resources that were built for L1, L2, L3, to be L4 & L5 compatible.

Fourth, right now there is no appreciable difference between L4 and L5 resources. In the future there is a potential for some resources requiring advanced .NET features that won't be supported in L4, but before that happens we'll know about it.

 

I hope this helps calm your fears.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 67
Richard Koons | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 1:22 PM

Dont feel alone iamk scriptually speaking you in very good company Yahshua didn't much approve of money changing In Ezekiel The Father doesn't like it much either and has a solemn promise attached so some posts I've notice like to toss out not the christian thing to do I wonder are they reading the bible? nuff said the fact is if Logos would have had a cross-over targeted at existing customers in the first place this could have been avoided all reputable software companies do have what you call an upgrade package apart from stand alone newely developed software package. Of course when I came aboard for Logos 4 I actually thought that you would buy books and own them for life now if it requires re-purchasing books in the new and future platforms logos well at the least have lost any future business from me as well as condemnation going forward ( again I must await the cross-over package before deciding but am not pleased at all) so I guess at the least Logos knows where I stan on the matter.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 1:27 PM

TCBlack:
Second, Logos has labored hard at backward compatability. AFAIK, L5 will still read the old LXF format that was in Logos 2.

If I'm not mistaken, L4 (I can't speak for L5), will even display my old facsimile edition of BDB but presume that if L4 will display a resource, so will L5.  Those were the days when working with Hebrew was a chore.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 1:27 PM

Richard Koons:
Of course when I came aboard for Logos 4 I actually thought that you would buy books and own them for life now if it requires re-purchasing books in the new and future platforms logos

Richard,

You don't lose any of the resources you currently own when/if you purchase Logos 5.  The upgrade costs are for new resources, not for existing. Also see http://www.logos.com/faq

Posts 2903
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 1:40 PM

 

 

 

 

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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