Book resources vs L5 Data Set resources and Logos 5 Features - Official clarification please

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Nov 4 2012 6:42 AM

Boy, what a lot of heat in the forums, the Logos guys must like getting roasted. Most of the angst in the postings seem, to me, to stem from people thinking that all their existing (book) resources are now useless and that they will have to pay all over again to get back to whatever level they were before. Of course (as I understand) that is completely not the case:

  1. Whatever (book) resources one already had in Logos 4 are all still there
  2. Whatever (book) resources one gets if one (cross/up)grades to one of the current Logos 5 packages will be new (book) resources.
  3. Whatever (book) resources one had previously in Logos 4 will be counted and reflected in the unique (cross/up)grade price offered to you on the upgrade page - http://www.logos.com/upgrade

So as regards book resources, all is well and good so far. However.... the "elephant in the room" issue which I haven't seen clearly addressed and/or explained yet is that other resource — Data Set resources — and the affect that having, or not having, those resources has on the functionality, and benefit, of Logos 5 as a Bible software program.

This is, to me, a major question of relevance both now, for existing Logos 4 upgraders, and for new purchasers.

This is what I understand about the Data Set resources — what I have read on the forums and reading between the lines:

  1. Data Sets are a new feature developed by Logos to provide more intelligence in the program. Great!
  2. It has taken a lot of resources to develop, and (likely) is considered by Logos to be a USP (Unique Selling Point) — no problems there from my side.
  3. Logos needs to recoup the financial investment in developing this USP — still no problem from my perspective.

Then the question comes though — how will point 3 be achieved.

If I look at the customised upgrade offered to me on the upgrade page to get all the data sets I have to go to at least the Gold package. To then get all the Feature sets (which also use the Data Sets) I have to go to at least the Platinum package. I currently don't want/need the books in the L5 Platinum package, or even the Gold, or Silver.

So now there is the situation where it is not like it used to be where there was a) the software (same functionality for everyone) and b) the resources where you got what you paid for. Now there are two types of resources (Books & Data Sets) and one of those is tied into Features and Data Sets (and therefore Features) are tied into the level of package you buy. So unless you are willing to pay a lot (either upgrade or new purchase) to get one of the highest levels of packages you miss out on functionality.

Then it is confused further because I read from Bob Pritchett (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx) that there will be a cross grade offer for Logos 4 users to go to L5 "to move to the Logos 5 engine at no cost at all. You'll even have an option for adding the coolest new data sets at a very reasonable cost." That's great to hear, one hopes that if one gets all the new data sets that that will mean that all features up to and including those only available at Platinum level and above (Bible Word Study: Senses and Bible Word Study: Septuagint Translation) will also become enabled.

I will imagine though that then new purchasers will get upset because we existing Logos 4 users will get Data Sets at a lower price — without having to go to Platinum.

Then it is confused further because say I want to 'upgrade' to the new Logos 5 Silver package to get a good price on some new resources. That will not get me all of the Data Sets and even less of the Features. Will I need to cross grade as well as upgrade?!? Will I pay twice for the same item?

All of this comes to the point I am making that Logos needs to consider carefully about these new type of resources — Data Sets. Tying (locking) them into (high level) package levels may not be the best way to sell them.

Then I also see on the website that the Data Sets are going to be sold separately (that's good), but I read on another post from a Logos person (don't know which) that that was a mistake, and that they will NOT be offered/available outside of a package purchase.

 

 

Well unfortunately they have already been offered and advertised (screenshot above) and, at least here in the EU, the seller can't back out.

So, in conclusion, all of the above shows there is a lot of confusion from Logos customers which the Logos team need to clear up quickly. Would be good to get a further clear (and official) communication from Logos on this.

And a parting comment/suggestion from me — guys, please don't lock the software functionality provided by Data Sets, and Features that use the Data Sets, into the highest level packages. Sure, recoup your investment of time and resources by charging for them — more than happy to pay a reasonable price — but don't tie them, lock them, into the big packages. That path will only dilute their USP value because less of your customers will purchase them.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:02 AM

This isn't a new thing.  In L4 you had to get the higher level packages to get certain functionality.  In the text comparison tool for example, and some would come on the forums wondering why it didn't work right.  Ultimately Logos would have to charge more for lower level packages if the had all the functionality.  (Try buying a car without power brakes, try buying a car for less than $12000.). Off topic, but I have Platinum and noticed that if I upgrade to L5 Platinum the new resources are at least 75% off, if not more.  Even if I didn't really want many of them, they were still a pretty good deal, if you have the money to spend.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:03 AM

Hi Patrick

Having different features available at different levels isn't new to L5 - it was also the case in L4 - see the section "Features and Databases" at http://www.logos.com/products/info/comparison to see this

Graham 

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:11 AM

Jerry M:

This isn't a new thing.  In L4 you had to get the higher level packages to get certain functionality. In the text comparison tool for example

Thanks for that info - I started with Scholars' Silver and I have text comparison tool. Are you saying that there were some software features in L4 that didn't kick in till Gold/Platinum?

 

Jerry M:

Try buying a car without power brakes, try buying a car for less than $12000

So you are saying that L4 below Platinum was like a car without brakes? Perhaps that's why the Mac version crashed so much - no brakes.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:14 AM

Deleted by author

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:18 AM

Graham Criddle:

Hi Patrick

Having different features available at different levels isn't new to L5 - it was also the case in L4 - see the section "Features and Databases" at http://www.logos.com/products/info/comparison to see this

Graham 

Thanks for info Graham — you earned your helper star status again Wink

Seriously though, looking at the link posted it can be seen that to obtain all the Features & Databases one had only to go to Scholars (which is where I started). Now Logos is saying to get all of the new/top level features functionality one has to enter at the Platinum level. Big difference.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:24 AM

I think the problem/difference is that the bar to get full functionality of the application has been raised.  Before, you had full functionality at the Scholar's level (now Bronze) at around $629 list.  This time, you need to go Platinum at around $2149 list.  That is a huge difference!

Director of Zoeproject 

www.zoeproject.com

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:26 AM

Hi Patrick

Patrick S.:
started). Now Logos is saying to get all of the new/top level features functionality one has to enter at the Platinum level. Big difference.

Fair point - although the only difference between Platinum and Gold (in that section) is Septuagint Translation in BWS which - when a new resource is available -  will be available in packages from Bronze up.

The other thing to bear in mind is  the minimum crossgrade - we don't know what features that will enable as yet

Graham

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:35 AM

Graham Criddle:

The other thing to bear in mind is  the minimum crossgrade - we don't know what features that will enable as yet

It better be the lot — for existing L4 users — otherwise there might be a riot. Especially amongst the Mac users who have suffered for so long Crying

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:51 AM

Patrick S.:
who have suffered
Gotta love that dry humor!  

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 10319
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:56 AM

I agree with Patrick.

My package disappeared. Poof. Plus it's aggregated with a previous crossgrade. Sure wish 'features' would show up like resources somewhere (Logos site account, library section, or 'Summary Account' as in Libronix).  Oddly enough, my Logos4 transactions do show up in my Libronix account analysis.

I'm not sure what Bob was thinking when he decided to stop selling features with Logos4. There was probably a good reason. But in the end, it's become 'crossgrades', customer expectations, and little documentation as to what is/was included.


Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 8:06 AM

Jerry M:

Patrick S.:
who have suffered
Gotta love that dry humor!  

Let's just say that there were very fruitful and deep discussions on the concept of theodicy in the L4M forum Stick out tongue

 

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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