Upgrade to 4.0 download partial resources?

I just purchased an upgrade Scholars Library. I expected I could download just the key resources that I use a lot at first and then download the rest gradually a bit at a time ovewr the next few months, much in the same way as with Logos 3 you could select the resources you wanted to download (and was shown the size of each).

However it appears that Logos4 will not even launch until I download the full 7.9GB of resources. It launches to a login screen and then automatically starts downloading with no other option. If I close that window when I relaunch it makes me login again and resumes download from where it left off.

The problem with this is downloads are very expensive here in Australia if you go over your internet plan allowances. If I were to let that run I would be charged AU$300 (approx US$275) in excess data usuage for the month.

If there any way I can just download part of the resources to be able to run the program? or will I need to wait several months carefully watching and rationing the download portion before I caqn use the program? or pay my ISP more than double what I paid Logos for the upgrade.

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Damian McGrath

Warren, this level of user control over downloads is not available and nor will it be available. It is something that several of us have asked for, due to download caps, but the response has always been negative. While some files are absolutely essential for the running of the program, there is no justification for not allowing us to control the download of other resources which have no effect on the core program (a commentary for example).

One option is to order the DVD. You'll need to wait a week or so, but this will fix the massive download problem.

The other option is to uninstall everything and then....

1) run the setup file and allow it to download the necessary installation files.

2) run setup until you get to the login screen.

3) disconnect your internet and then login. You will then be presented with the option of working offline and it will not calculate how many resources are necessary for downloading.

4) Open tools-program settings and turn internet off.

5) type the scan command into the command bar at the top "scan c:\program files\libronix\resources" or whatever directory your v3 resources are in.

6) close the program. reconnect the internet and restart the program. It should now begin by scanning and importing your v3 resources. This will take some time.

7) You can then, at any time, type update now into the command bar. It will present you with however many GBs of data are to be downloaded. You can allow it to download 1/5 GB and then hit cancel download. After you have cancelled (and waited until the program has stopped downloading whichever resources are being downloaded), these resources will become available for install - this is a bit of a lucky dip - you may end up with the ones you want least.

8) Next month, download some more.

9) keep internet set to off or it will devour your data allowance.

PS this is all from memory from my nightmare reinstall last night / this morning.

Rich DeRuiter

I just purchased an upgrade Scholars Library. I expected I could download just the key resources that I use a lot at first and then download the rest gradually a bit at a time over the next few months, much in the same way as with Logos 3 you could select the resources you wanted to download (and was shown the size of each).

However it appears that Logos4 will not even launch until I download the full 7.9GB of resources. It launches to a login screen and then automatically starts downloading with no other option. If I close that window when I relaunch it makes me login again and resumes download from where it left off.

The problem with this is downloads are very expensive here in Australia if you go over your internet plan allowances. If I were to let that run I would be charged AU$300 (approx US$275) in excess data usuage for the month.

If there any way I can just download part of the resources to be able to run the program? or will I need to wait several months carefully watching and rationing the download portion before I caqn use the program? or pay my ISP more than double what I paid Logos for the upgrade.

The problems with Oz internet became apparent during the original L4 beta testing period. Hard for many of us in the U.S. to even imagine anymore. We've had unlimited downloads since the days of dial-up. Many of us can go to a local coffee shop and get on the internet for free and download as much as we want. Same at the local library. Things are very different down under, and it's hard to even imagine that anymore.

It's
not possible at this time to tell Logos4 to only download a limited
number of resources (as it was in L3).

So how about some other suggestions:

If you unplug your machine from the internet and restart the
installation process, you may be able to
get it up and running with the L3 resources you already have. It may
not work. You may need to restart the computer and maybe even uninstall what you've got started before that
will work. I'm not quite enough of a tech geek to tell you how to
trouble shoot that.

The best way for you to go may be to get the DVD, instead of the download. I know, a little late now since you already bought the download. But the folks at Logos are very accommodating and may help you make the necessary change. Give them a call, or skip the phone charges and send them an email. And I know you'll still be dealing with long waits, and postage (and customs?).

One other option you may consider is to increase your monthly data cap, if possible, for the next two months. I say two, because there are still some resources being finished, and 4.0a is already being beta tested.

I'm sure some fellow Aussies will chime in here with some suggestions as well. Some of them are quite well versed in the foibles of Logos and the internet system in Oz.. Listen to them.

Warren Sistrom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45463#Comment_45463

Well it looks like that this issue has been raised before and Logos has been unresponsive. These facts make this program totally unsuitable for my use. Any program that can start downloading data in a way I have no control over I will not have on my PC.

Unless this is fixed and there is some way for me to select which items to download, or the even remoter chance that Logos will agree to reimberse me for any excess download fees incured, I will not be using Logos 4.

I wish I had discovered this before I paid the money for the upgrade.

Warren Sistrom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45479#Comment_45479

And in case no one has noted that I am not more than a little annoyed, I had a hard time getting it to actually stop download. When I thought I had stopped it when i made my first post above it was still actually downloading in the background, and kept trying to download in the background even after rebooting the PC. To even be able to remove Logos 4 I needed to go in and end the process in Windows task manager (if I ended the Application the process was restarting it and resuming.) In otherwors once you had started the install a user requires a resonable amount of windows technical knowledge to stop it and the download.

I believe to create a program like this is highly unethical.

To put this in context if my father in law had purchased this he is not very computer savy, and would not have been able to stop the download unless he had realised it was still running in the background, and only then if he physically disconnected his connection And therefore he would not have been able to use the internet at all. If he had left it going, assuming he had not yet used any more of his monthly download allowance, he would have been charged $1155 (approx US$1000)

Allowing people to download updates and new books is a good thing. Forcing them to is very bad.

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45479#Comment_45479

It's similar here in the UK - we have 'unlimited FAIR use' from many of our Internet providers. After a certain amount of bandwidth is used up (I get 5GB a month) the ISP either refuses to let you download any more or charges you for the privelege. To get my Logos downloads finished I went over my bandwidth and was charged £50 :-( And no, they didn't wait for me to agree to the charge - I had left Logos 4 to do the download while I did other things and then saw I had been charged...

Logos 3 separated 'essential' and 'non essential' downloads and I cannot think of any reason why Logos 4 cannot provide the same. Most of my excess bandwidth was caused by a bunch of graphics that I will probably make no use of - if I had had the option, I would either have never downloaded them or would have done so later. Instead they cost me an extra £50..

Andy

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45479#Comment_45479

it looks like that this issue has been raised before and Logos has been unresponsive

Not unresponsive. Negative. There were a number of Australians and one South African who raised this issue a number of times during Beta testing. Bob did ask us how much we would be charged for extra data - we told him - I think he assumed it would be about $1 / GB. The result of that discussion was to give us the ability to switch the internet off (a feature which I don't think is clear enough for international users who may not be aware of the amount of data syncing will chew through).

Another feature of which you need to be aware, but which is not mentioned to my knowledge, is that the program also updates old libronix files. So, the GB figure for downloading the base package is only the amount for the package. If you have many other resources, these will likely also be upgraded.

Any program that can start downloading data in a way I have no control over I will not have on my PC.

Once the program is installed, you can turn the internet off.

I wish I had discovered this before I paid the money for the upgrade.

I do not want to sound dismissive in this, but you can still get a refund (though I would order the DVD and immediately turn off the internet).

When I thought I had stopped it when i made my first post above it was still actually downloading in the background

Did you right-click the blue icon and cancel downloading from there?

Personally, I think that you need an opt out before downloading.

I believe to create a program like this is highly unethical.

I do certainly believe that a purchaser should be able to make a fully informed decision. The website needs improvement in this regard.

Logos 3 separated 'essential' and 'non essential' download

As do many other programs including the Windows operating system. Somethings can't be installed before others. Some never need be installed.

One of the big problems is that users of v3 who "upgrade" will naturally expect the same control over downloading which they had in v3! Why would you change something which wasn't broken.

I cannot think of any reason why Logos 4 cannot provide the same

Nor can I.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45483#Comment_45483

Allowing people to download updates and new books is a good thing. Forcing them to is very bad.

I fully share your dismay and annoyance. I also have to really monitor the downloads because of a $AUD0.15 / MB fee for going over! Whilst lobbying for change to this download policy I was able to download my (small) library, and the subsequent updates have been at an acceptable level to suit me (we did win an option for Automatically Download Updates = NO). So I would advise you to get the DVD and help continue the fight for a better download policy!

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45534#Comment_45534

So I would advise you to . . . continue the fight for a better download policy!

And while you're at it, lobby your internet providers to provide a more modern infrastructure and usage policies. I suspect that more and more U.S. and European based software companies are going to build in automatic internet connectivity, in the way Logos does, based on internet usage experience in those locations. Face it Oz and SA are way behind in this regard. Sooner or later this lack of foresight on the part of governments, phone companies, cable TV and satellite TV companies is going to put unnecessary strains on your economy's ability to participate in the global marketplace (if this is not happening already).

According to our fellow poster Bohuslav, Easter Europe has a better internet infrastructure than you guys. While I might not be feeling completely warm and fuzzy toward Logos right now, if I were in AU or SA, I'd be hopping mad at the internet situation in my country. And I'd be signing, if not authoring petitions to bring my country into the 21 century re internet infrastructure and policies.

Michael Lyman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45645#Comment_45645

I thought having Hughes Net was bad. At least they don't charge me excessively they just slow my access way down for 24 hours. I don't understand the need for secrecy in what Logos is doing the the software. With Logos 3 I bought large collections of books, was given some by publishers when I ran a Christian Bookstore and amassed quite a few from E4 and other publishers. I went through my resources and deleted those books I didn't need to save hard drive space. I don't need Webster's 10th and 11th edition for Logos 4. The program still won't work on my new computer (see specs below). They uploaded my 10th edition Webster's to find an error in it and after I deleted it, removed the download manager db file and restarted the indexer crashed again... They've forwarded the problem to the developers but I bought this November 5th and it still doesn't work...

Model: HP G60 Notebook PC Processor: AMD Turion Dual-Core RM-75 2.20
GHz RAM: 3.0 GB System Type: 32 bit Operating
System

Warren Sistrom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45489#Comment_45489

Try $150/GB for standard excess, thats assuming fixed line access, if using mobile (cellular) access standard is $250/GB. While the situation is a bit more complex than that and there are different options, there are also many limiting factors based on location, type of dwelling, local exchange and lock in contracts.

And while you're at it, lobby your internet providers to provide a more modern infrastructure and usage policies.

Yes our internet charges are ridiculous, and I can assure you people have been lobbying to change it for years and it is not going to happen (quickly at least). The telecommunications companies in Australia have a lot of political power and pretty much do what they want. There is also a feeling in Australia generally amoung most non technical people that any home user who would want more 10GB a month must be a pirate downloading illegal software and/or movies.

Which brings us to another powerful political lobby the television channels, both free to air and cable, whom I am sure are also pushing to keep internet expensive and stopping digitial distribution cutting into their market. Not hard to do when the dominant (practically only) cable TV company is 50% owned by the largest Telco/ISP who also happens to own one of the largest DVD by mail rental companies.

The only digital distribution that is really working at all in Australia is where the company distributing has done a deal with the individual ISP to exclude data from their site from counting against download allowance. I don't suppose logos wants to do a deal in this way with the major Australian ISPs? I think it is going to be digital distribution of movies, not software, that will finally increase our downloads, but that won't be for a while yet, and hopefully it won't be some special deal whereit is only movies and not software.

That all being said it does need to be remembered that ISP's will always have much higher costs. With a physical area of the US lower 48, less than 10% of the population, and government mandates on larger companies to provide service to rural customers, even local infrastructure is expensive before one starts taking into account the mssive investment in cables under the Pacific and Indian oceans.

And while you're at it, lobby your internet providers to provide a more modern infrastructure and usage policies. I suspect that more and more U.S. and European based software companies are going to build in automatic internet connectivity, in the way Logos does, based on internet usage experience in those locations. Face it Oz and SA are way behind in this regard. Sooner or later this lack of foresight on the part of governments, phone companies, cable TV and satellite TV companies is going to put unnecessary strains on your economy's ability to participate in the global marketplace (if this is not happening already).

While it is true more and more digital updates are it is clear from what Andy said they have similar issue in the UK, so it seems it is not just OZ and SA.

The problem is not that there are internet updates but the abilities to track them and control them, and the enourmous size of the update. This is where Logos4 falls down in a bad way. I don't really want to turn the internet off altogther, I want to be informed and given the option to delay all or part of the update as part of managing my download (and upload because I am charged for that too) usage. Yes I have other programs that want to run updates automatically, even some that will not run until I have downloaded the latest update, but they all give me clearer options of what they are about to download and to cancel, and the most I have ever been asked to download before is a couple of hundred MB, never 8GB. If I could be sure that updates were only hundreds of MB, that I can manage because I have one of the larger plans available, but for some other internet users here in Australia that would be too much.

Sooner or later this lack of foresight on the part of governments, phone companies, cable TV and satellite TV companies is going to put unnecessary strains on your economy's ability to participate in the global marketplace (if this is not happening already).

Yeah it will, but it also has some advantages. The low uptake of cable in Australia has ment that a lot of shows you in the US only get on cable we still get to see on free to Air

Damian McGrath">Did you right-click the blue icon and cancel downloading from there?
Yes I tried this it would not respond. I only managed to stop it after ending the process (not the application) in task manager, and then uninstalling the program.

Logos 3 separated 'essential' and 'non essential' download

As do many other programs including the Windows operating system. Somethings can't be installed before others. Some never need be installed.

One of the big problems is that users of v3 who "upgrade" will naturally expect the same control over downloading which they had in v3! Why would you change something which wasn't broken.

I cannot think of any reason why Logos 4 cannot provide the same

Nor can I.

I could not agree more. I can somewhat understand why Logos wants people to have the best experience by having the latest version of the product, but please allow us to manage our own downloads so we can manage the excess costs put on us

One other option you may consider is to increase your monthly data cap, if possible, for the next two months. I say two, because there are still some resources being finished, and 4.0a is already being beta tested.

The next level up plan will cost me an extra $30 a month. Sure $30 is cheaper than $300, but I don't see why I should have to pay that much extra for something that if I was able to manage it I would be able to download over the next couple of months. I normally have a few GB free at the end of the month so by using say 2GB of Logos stuff a month (maybe more sometimes)

This all being said while I am still quite angry about the whole situation, in the cold light of day I will try Damian's instructions from his first post above to see if I can get something working and report back on my experience.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45645#Comment_45645

And while you're at it, lobby your internet providers to provide a more modern infrastructure and usage policies.

That's a very parochial a view of another user's situation, Rich. Implying that I should not voice an opinion for change because I (through no fault of my own ) can't handle 10 GB downloads, but Logos can continue to flood the internet with these ridiculously high bandwidth downloads!

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45838#Comment_45838

That's a very parochial a view of another user's situation, Rich. Implying that I should not voice an opinion for change because I (through no fault of my own ) can't handle 10 GB downloads, but Logos can continue to flood the internet with these ridiculously high bandwidth downloads!

I didn't intend to imply that you should choose one strategy over the other.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45848#Comment_45848

That's a very parochial a view of another user's situation, Rich. Implying that I should not voice an opinion for change because I (through no fault of my own ) can't handle 10 GB downloads, but Logos can continue to flood the internet with these ridiculously high bandwidth downloads!

I didn't intend to imply that you should choose one strategy over the other.

The words "and while you're at it" didn't give me the comfort of that interpretation.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45850#Comment_45850

The words "and while you're at it" didn't give me the comfort of that interpretation.

Hmm. Communication can be interesting.

What I implied with those words "While you're at it..." was precisely that. Namely, while you're trying to change Logos procedures here, do the other as well. I was consciously suggesting (or attempting to suggest, at least) a 'both and' approach, rather than recommending one over the other.

As I said, communication can be interesting.