L4: My first impressions, if it matters

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This post has 13 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 431
Wilson Hines | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Nov 29 2009 7:41 AM

After being very, very judicious and critically minded regarding going from L3 to L4 I am now running L4 via a cross grade - Scholars Silver, with tons of other resources individually purchased. 

However critically minded I have been I do want to make clear from the start that I do want L4 to succeed and I do want to move toward the new platform.  So, with my thinking, just don't believe that I am an old crony that just wants his L3 and never desires any advancement.  I do want advancement.  I had just heard so much negative and so little positive from a scholarly standpoint that the result was I believed that L4 just couldn't make the cut.  

Let me further clarify my statement "scholarly standpoint."  The general idea from people who are just interested in doing their Sunday School lessons, their Sunday sermon, and other broad studies is that L4 is a beyond fantastic system and approach.  While the camp of folks that I tend to read and converse with are more into Textual Criticism (Apparati), Biblical Linguistics (Grammars) and other seminary style study have thought that L4 was basically more aesthetic than "hard core" or otherwise known as a "Power User." 

While I still understand some of the questions and concerns of the "power user" group I find that "out of the box" it is quite powerful.  I do see room for improvement on some things (not necessary to rehash here) and I believe that the Logos programming staff sees those same needs.  

Right now, with only four days of experience with L4 under my belt, I could easily see that L3 could almost entirely be replaced by L4 in my personal usage.  There is only a small handful of things that I think L3 does better.  There are a handful of things that L3 does and L4 doesn't - and they will come.  In the mean time, open up L3 for those tools.

On a scale of 1-10: This system is a 9.  L3 of course is a 10.  But, with time, this will be an easy 10+ once everything is in it's place.

I hope this helps some fence sitters and power users.

You don't have to agree with me.  You just have to love me. 

 

Wilson Hines

 

 

Wilson Hines

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 29 2009 7:50 AM

Wilson,

Very well said.

I appreciate your perspective; your angle.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 8666
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 29 2009 3:32 PM

Well Said Wilson,

And you're two for two!  I not only agree with you, I love you! 

You're such a winner!

 

ps I'm gonna steal that line: "you don't have to agree with me.  you just have to love me."

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 2246
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 29 2009 4:43 PM

Wilson Hines:
You don't have to agree with me.  You just have to love me. 

I love this line...

Consider putting it in your sig...

Posts 258
Gerald P. Swetsky | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 29 2009 6:15 PM

Well, I see where L4 will eventually be an "all things to all people" program.  However, at this point I'm merely frustrated.

I do a lot of reading in Logos and have been waiting for some mouse routines which I need to allow me to scroll my resources easily.  I understand Logos has the routines, but they have yet to release them.

I check the forums almost daily hoping for a new release.  Till then, I can play with L4, however it is in no way a replacement for L3.  I hate to be a party pooper, but I think L4 was released FAR too early and am hurt that Logos, the company I love, took my $160 for a product that could be considered at best an early beta release.

Score 4.5

Gerry

Posts 3127
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 29 2009 6:32 PM

Wilson Hines:

... people who are just interested in doing their Sunday School lessons,

A bit elitist, maybe?  "Just"?

Actually, I get your meaning fine, but I couldn't resist the dig.  Your Freudian slip is showing.

 

Wilson Hines:

the camp of folks that I tend to read and converse with are more into Textual Criticism

You should pick your friends better.  Bad company corrupts good character.  (This is supposed to be humor, for those whose sense thereof is deficient.)

 

Wilson Hines:

Right now, with only four days of experience with L4 under my belt, I could easily see that L3 could almost entirely be replaced by L4 in my personal usage. <snip?

I agree.  I've been a bit disturbed and disappointed at some of the negativity I've seen posted on these forums about a fabulous study tool.  I'm glad to see a 'power user' happy with the first-down play by Logos on L4.

 

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 431
Wilson Hines | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 3:02 PM

I don't even know where I got that from, but it isn't mine.  Maybe even somewhere on these forums.  It came to mind and I said it.  Sorry if I offended anybody by snatching the slogan.

 

Thomas Black:

Well Said Wilson,

And you're two for two!  I not only agree with you, I love you! 

You're such a winner!

 

ps I'm gonna steal that line: "you don't have to agree with me.  you just have to love me."

 

Wilson Hines

Posts 431
Wilson Hines | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 3:18 PM

There is just no good way of saying some of what I said, especially the parts you said may seem elitist.  I certainly don't mean it that way and I hope your being sincere in saying you're joking about the statement.  

With any hobby or field of concentration there are those who delve further than others.  Take coffee for example: I have written articles in an internationally distributed coffee trade magazine and I am very active in the specialty coffee culture.  While there are those that would see my approach to coffee and say I am almost a mad scientist, they have probably never met my friend Jim from London who is an Albert Einstein with the little fruit that we call coffee.  He takes it from a passion and elevates every brew to scientific proportions.  You can see this from a very basic view on his "Brew Temp" post.  

My point with this is I know several coffee people that I consider very professional and successful who never have "tinkered" with coffee, pressure profiling, temperature, solubility and other issues anywhere at all near where Jim has taken things AND they produce fantastic coffees.   With the ministry, I know pastors and teachers who do not care to worry about Verbal Aspect and how it effects interpretation of Scripture.  But, they do effective and down right good preaching and teaching that changes lives.  

There is nothing wrong with being a scientist with the Word of God or being an amateur or professional statesman.  Both have their place.

 

Doc B:

Wilson Hines:

... people who are just interested in doing their Sunday School lessons,

A bit elitist, maybe?  "Just"?

Actually, I get your meaning fine, but I couldn't resist the dig.  Your Freudian slip is showing.

 

Wilson Hines:

the camp of folks that I tend to read and converse with are more into Textual Criticism

You should pick your friends better.  Bad company corrupts good character.  (This is supposed to be humor, for those whose sense thereof is deficient.)

 

Wilson Hines:

Right now, with only four days of experience with L4 under my belt, I could easily see that L3 could almost entirely be replaced by L4 in my personal usage. <snip?

I agree.  I've been a bit disturbed and disappointed at some of the negativity I've seen posted on these forums about a fabulous study tool.  I'm glad to see a 'power user' happy with the first-down play by Logos on L4.

 

 

Wilson Hines

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 4:22 PM

Wilson Hines:

There is just no good way of saying some of what I said, especially the parts you said may seem elitist.  I certainly don't mean it that way and I hope your being sincere in saying you're joking about the statement.  

With any hobby or field of concentration there are those who delve further than others.  Take coffee for example: I have written articles in an internationally distributed coffee trade magazine and I am very active in the specialty coffee culture.  While there are those that would see my approach to coffee and say I am almost a mad scientist, they have probably never met my friend Jim from London who is an Albert Einstein with the little fruit that we call coffee.  He takes it from a passion and elevates every brew to scientific proportions.  You can see this from a very basic view on his "Brew Temp" post.  

My point with this is I know several coffee people that I consider very professional and successful who never have "tinkered" with coffee, pressure profiling, temperature, solubility and other issues anywhere at all near where Jim has taken things AND they produce fantastic coffees.   With the ministry, I know pastors and teachers who do not care to worry about Verbal Aspect and how it effects interpretation of Scripture.  But, they do effective and down right good preaching and teaching that changes lives.  

There is nothing wrong with being a scientist with the Word of God or being an amateur or professional statesman.  Both have their place.

 

Wilson,

I don't think anyone was offended by your post...I think that they were having a bit of fun and forgot the smileys; that's all Big Smile

I thought your first post was well thought out and well said.

 

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 35588
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 5:03 PM

Wilson Hines:
The general idea from people who are just interested in doing their Sunday School lessons, their Sunday sermon, and other broad studies is that L4 is a beyond fantastic system and approach.

To those who considered this statement to be elitest.  Relax. Be cool. Just using limited, common functions may simply mean that the fit into the category that Logos has made primary in their user interface.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 5:41 PM

I'll give the current L4 (SR7) release a 7.3 (sorry I'm a bit of a pessimist Indifferent in general)

Ask me again in 4/6 months.  I'm expecting for it to get a 9.5 by then.

If I spent as much time in L4 as I do reading and sometimes posting on the forums I'd be a "power user" by now... lol

Posts 3127
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 8:44 PM

Robert Pavich:

Wilson,

I don't think anyone was offended by your post...I think that they were having a bit of fun and forgot the smileys; that's all Big Smile

I thought your first post was well thought out and well said.

 

 

Yeah, I don't even know how to make smileys.  (That's why I put the parenthetical statement that my comments were humor...I was hoping it would be clear enough.)  I guess smiley's may be better.  I gotta get with the program.  My 14-year old can probably catch me up!

Wilson, sorry if my dryness caught you off guard.  When I hear, "textual criticism", I think of Wellhausen.  I know you never met him, unless you are a lot older than you sound, so I was poking some fun.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 431
Wilson Hines | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 3:09 AM

"Wellhausen" you say?  No, nothing could be absolutely further from that stuff.  My sister went to a Presbyterian college that taught Wellhausen theories.  Came home after one semester talking the most heinous stuff you can imagine.  That stuff isn't textual criticism, it is the "need for salvation."  And salvation she got, 15 years later.

 

Doc B:

Robert Pavich:

Wilson,

I don't think anyone was offended by your post...I think that they were having a bit of fun and forgot the smileys; that's all Big Smile

I thought your first post was well thought out and well said.

 

 

Yeah, I don't even know how to make smileys.  (That's why I put the parenthetical statement that my comments were humor...I was hoping it would be clear enough.)  I guess smiley's may be better.  I gotta get with the program.  My 14-year old can probably catch me up!

Wilson, sorry if my dryness caught you off guard.  When I hear, "textual criticism", I think of Wellhausen.  I know you never met him, unless you are a lot older than you sound, so I was poking some fun.

 

Wilson Hines

Posts 8666
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 6:50 AM

Wilson Hines:
There is nothing wrong with being a scientist with the Word of God or being an amateur or professional statesman. Both have their place
What about being an amateurish professional?  I think that'd be me.   Don't worry Wilson, I can't believe anybody was truly offended either by the slogan (which I agree with Damian you should put in your sig) or with your statements.    I read your post and appreciate your observations.
Wilson Hines:
And salvation she got, 15 years later.

Hallelujah for God's inestimable grace.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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