Why does Gideon map not show up when I look up Gideon in Bible Facts??
Hi, I looked up Gideon in Bible Facts and got the illustrations shown in the image below. Some family trees, etc. and a few maps (see attached). When I later looked up Mount Tabor, the first map that came up was the Logos Gideon map which should have come up when I looked up Gideon (see attached).
Why would this happen?
In fact, this is not the first time I've seen something like this. I seen other pictures and illustrations that have not come up under the Bible Fact that I looked up. I had to find them by doing a search like "#image <Fact>". I would then find a map or image clearly related to that "fact" (person, place, etc.) that doesn't show up under Bible Facts. This is rather disappoint because I have come to expect that all illustrations related to a fact would show up in Bible Facts without having to do further searches.
The Gideon one is the most surprising because the missing Gideon map was a Logos map.
Comments
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Christopher Davis said:
Hi, I looked up Gideon in Bible Facts and got the illustrations shown in the image below. Some family trees, etc. and a few maps (see attached). When I later looked up Mount Tabor, the first map that came up was the Logos Gideon map which should have come up when I looked up Gideon (see attached).
Using Logos 5.0b Release Candidate 1 on OS X 10.8.2 can replicate Bible Fact oddity:
Also noted an image for Gideon included Mount Tabor. Likewise surprised by a couple maps that appear for Mount Tabor are not in Gideon results.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I'm missing something. In the LCV I find Gideon as a person but not as a place. What am I missing?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I'm missing something. In the LCV I find Gideon as a person but not as a place. What am I missing?
The Logos Map labeled "Gideon" shows the movement of people. Also noted a Logos map about Judges that have people references and places marked on map.
In Logos 5, Bible Facts combined People, Places, Things, and Events so finding maps related to the person of Gideon would be appreciated in Bible Facts.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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MJ. Smith said:
I'm missing something. In the LCV I find Gideon as a person but not as a place. What am I missing?
That's a true statement about the implementation but not helpful to a user who is puzzled about why he can't do what he wants to be able to do. He probably hasn't a clue what LCV is. Indeed, there is no place called Gideon. But this map exists and it's labeled Gideon. Christopher is expecting to find the map related to the person Gideon (even mentioning his name in its title) when searching Bible Facts for Gideon. His expectation makes perfect sense to me.
I know that it's not implemented to be able to behave that way (entries in Bible Facts are all Logos Controlled Vocabulary [LCV] items, and it can't find anything that isn't a LCV entry in its database), but his point is that it should be possible, because it's a normal thing for users to want to do. So, Logos, figure out a way to do it. Index all the words in maps or something. Figure it out. You're smart.
I've personally been frustrated that I can't find maps by the title of the map using the Find box on Bible Facts. In actual fact it isn't a true Find box; it's a lookup box (can only look up items that are in the LCV database). It would be great if there were a way to truly search the contents of Biblical Places (Facts) for any word that appears in the title of maps. Being instructed to search for #image <word> is frustrating to users, and that strategy doesn't always find everything you're looking for anyway (or rather if often finds a whole lot more that you weren't looking for that you now have to wade through). It ought to just work the way one expects it to, without having to jump through geeky hoops.
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The Logos Map labeled "Gideon" shows the movement of people. Also noted a Logos map about Judges that have people references and places marked on map.
In Logos 5, Bible Facts combined People, Places, Things, and Events so finding maps related to the person of Gideon would be appreciated in Bible Facts.
I also noticed that the word Gideon is clickable in that map that Christopher found by searching for Mount Tabor. When you click on it, you get to the Bible Facts entry for Gideon. Would be nice if that entry included a back link to map(s) that mention Gideon.
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Rosie Perera said:
That's a true statement about the implementation but not helpful to a user
I was checking the disambiguation symbols to see if it was a matter of making the correct selection when I discovered I didn't understand what the user was expecting. My post was intended to be helpful to me so that I could answer his question.
Rosie Perera said:So, Logos, figure out a way to do it. Index all the words in maps or something. Figure it out. You're smart.
Actually, some of us have a different perspective. Logos has no teaching authority and should not one set of possibilities over another unless we have the markup capability to suggest alternative theories -see Yitzchak Etshalom on the location of Rebecca's tomb for an example.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The Logos Map labeled "Gideon" shows the movement of people. Also noted a Logos map about Judges that have people references and places marked on map.
Thanks - I now understand what was expected.
In Logos 5, Bible Facts combined People, Places, Things, and Events so finding maps related to the person of Gideon would be appreciated in Bible Facts.
I'm of 2 minds about this - it could easily get out of hand. It seems reasonable to me to go person-->resource with place name-->map since for many people (example Abraham, Moses) going person-->map could bring up an large number of maps irrelevant to the incident I am trying to locate.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I would not to expect Facts to mingle persons, places, events any more than I would expect it in a Bible Dictionary - it creates information overload with no obvious relationship to what one requests.
I too find it odd that Logos decided to mingle persons, places, events in Bible Facts. It made more sense before when they were separate.
Even so, I would have expected to be able to go to the old Biblical Places tool and search for maps that contained a word (even if it happened to be a person's name, e.g., Gideon) in the title. But it did not function that way (and still does not now that they're all jumbled together).
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Rosie Perera said:
I too find it odd that Logos decided to mingle persons, places, events in Bible Facts. It made more sense before when they were separate.
You misunderstood me - I like them being a single resource like a Bible dictionary; I do, however, expect independent entries for persons, places, events, things - again as in a Bible Dictionary.
Rosie Perera said:, I would have expected to be able to go to the old Biblical Places tool and search for maps that contained a word
I would not. L4 or L5. The structure of the drop-down box tells me that I am selecting a headword in a dictionary. I would expect to use a basic search if I want the word anywhere in the entry. My complaint is in the other directions - I wish the parenthetical references did not appear - that the search just included primary headword(s).
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Christopher Davis said:
Why would this happen?
Christopher,
Can you change the title of this thread to start with BUG: (click More on your post, then Edit).
Clearly Mt Tabor shouldn't come with person:Gideon and the Gideon map shouldn't come with Mt Tabor.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I'd love to. I've done this in the past, but for some reason I don't see the edit option anymore for my own post. Has something changed in the forums?
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Looks like we missed the 10 hour deadline to make edits!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Clearly ... the Gideon map shouldn't come with Mt Tabor.
Why not? Mt. Tabor does appear in that map, as it does in all the other maps that come up under Mt. Tabor. None of them features it prominently, but if someone were wondering where Mt. Tabor is in relation to cities and other features in the region, wouldn't the Gideon map be as good as any?
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Dave Hooton said:
Clearly Mt Tabor shouldn't come with person:Gideon and the Gideon map shouldn't come with Mt Tabor.
That's one way the results could be resolved that makes sense. There are others but this works for me.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Rosie Perera said:
wouldn't the Gideon map be as good as any?
OK, but only if it appears for Gideon as well.[Z]
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Clearly Mt Tabor shouldn't come with person:Gideon and the Gideon map shouldn't come with Mt Tabor.
I am not sure I agree, because Gideon does have something to do with Mt. Tabor (Mt. Tabor is where Gideon confronted the Midianite kings who had killed his brothers). Anyway, Mt. Tabor currently already doesn't come up when you select Gideon the person, so I'm not sure why you mentioned that boldfaced part.
And I've explained above why it does make sense for a map (which happens to be titled Gideon) that has Mt. Tabor in it to come up when a user selects Mt. Tabor.
Interestingly, the one map that has the most to do with Mt. Tabor is titled "Deborah and Barak" so it is yet another map that refers to people's names in its title. If you're suggesting that maps shouldn't come up when people's names are selected in the dropdown, then this map would be inaccessible by the most sensible headword to look for it under.
If you really want to "solve" this problem, then Logos should get rid of all the maps that have people's names in their titles. (I'm being facetious here. I actually think these maps are pretty interesting and useful.) It's simply an unavoidable situation that some maps are all about the comings and goings of particular people. In fact, a lot of the maps are like that. So they cross category boundaries (people/places). It can't be helped. The "Deborah and Barak" map should be found whether you type in Mt. Tabor or Deborah or Barak.
Currently, however, it only comes up when you search for Mt. Tabor:
It does not come up when you select Deborah or Barak. If you look for maps related to Deborah or Barak, you only get this lame one:
Clearly something is amiss here.
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Christopher Davis said:
When I later looked up Mount Tabor, the first map that came up was the Logos Gideon map which should have come up when I looked up Gideon
Thanks for the bug report/suggestion; it does seem reasonable that Bible Facts for Gideon should show the map that's explicitly labelled "Gideon".
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Sounds good. Of course, which I'm sure you realize that this wouldn't apply just to Gideon, but to any person we look up. The maps with that person in the title/headword should show up. Honestly, I keep thinking this is how it used to work in Logos 4 and I couldn't understand why these great www.logos.com maps (and others) were not showing up when I looked up people in Logos 5.
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