check this

In Search, type in "when thou shalt make his soul" - do a lemma search on the word "when" and I have amongst others, Vines listed for the word. When I click on the Vines, I get the word "mother" -------- my question is, why is Vines listed there to begin with?

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JT (alabama24)

my question is, why is Vines listed there to begin with?

The simplest answer is that 1) Vines is prioritized in your library OR 2) You don't have enough other prioritized resources with that headword (so it randomly picks one). Are either of those things possible?

Graham Criddle

I don't see this - when I follow your steps (doing the original search as a Bible search against "All Bibles") then I get the search results below:

Against which Bible are you generating the lemma search?
What is the search string which is generated?
Do you get other - unexpected - results other than Vines?

Bootjack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465886#Comment_465886

Alabama --- Vine's is prioritized but why does it not pop up in other words searches? It seems in a word I'm looking for in the Search, those lexicons / Dictionaries with the words in them will come up but not as a rule. But then am I in error on this?

Vines Dictionary is # 38 from the top of the prioritized list. The collected writings of Vine are # 8 from the top. But I'm not getting the latter in my Search - I'm getting the former.

Graham - I noticed your arrow is on Basic - mine is on Bible.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465932#Comment_465932

Alabama --- Vine's is prioritized but why does it not pop up in other words searches? It seems in a word search, those lexicons / Dictionaries with the words in them will come up - BUT - then am I in error on this?

Vines Dictionary is # 38 from the top of the prioritized list. The collected writings of Vine are # 8 from the top. But I'm not getting the latter in my Search - I'm getting the former.

It is hard for me to know for sure, but the resources that appear should always be the top five highest prioritized resources with that headword. Without owning those resources, and without being able to sit down at your computer with you, my guess is that "the collected writings of Vine" doesn't have the headword and "Vine's Dictionary" does.

When you write that Vines Dictionary is #38, I assume you mean it is #38 in the entire list… which is largely irrelevant. You could have 3,000 phone books prioritized above vines, and vines would still show up… because the phone books aren't tagged for the headword. Does that make sense? I assume that my explanation explains what you are seeing, but it could be something else… to know for sure we would need much more info, including screenshots.

Bootjack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465938#Comment_465938

Thanks for the reply. My question would be then - why the inconsistency. When I click on any word, the five lexicons / dictionaries that come up have the word I'm looking for. I'm saying this from memory. I found it strange that Vines came up there today and didn't give me the particular word I was after. But again - this is from what I remember and again, I suppose I might be in error on this.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465939#Comment_465939

I found it strange that Vines came up there today and didn't give me the particular word I was after. But again - this is from what I remember and again, I suppose I might be in error on this.

You would need to attempt this again and post screen shots to learn any more.

There is a possibility that your copy of vines is out of date, or that one of your indexes has become corrupt. The simplest thing you could try is the command "update resources." Rebuilding indexes may be necessary, but always as a last resort.

Room4more

In Search, type in "when thou shalt make his soul" - do a lemma search on the word "when" and I have amongst others, Vines listed for the word. When I click on the Vines, I get the word "mother" -------- my question is, why is Vines listed there to begin with?

Maybe it is because:

When

Usage Notes: * For WHEN, WHENCE, WHENSOEVER, WHERE, etc., see Note †, p. 9

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

[""note"": indicates that the word referred to is not dealt with in this volume]

oops missed that.....

Bootjack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465945#Comment_465945

The usage notes part makes sense - I'm wondering why Vines is brought up in the list at all in the case under consideration.

Room4more

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465950#Comment_465950

The usage notes part makes sense - I'm wondering why Vines is brought up in the list at all in the case under consideration.

dunno: good question for the techies @ Logos....

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465932#Comment_465932

Alabama --- Vine's is prioritized but why does it not pop up in other words searches?

As you might gather, Vine's is getting a little long in the tooth as a serious lexicon. Mounce has definitions for both "when" (H518) and "mother" (H517) whereas Vine's only has H517 which is close enough in form to give a match. Even TLOT disgraced itself with this word.

Room4more

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465953#Comment_465953

Alabama --- Vine's is prioritized but why does it not pop up in other words searches?

As you might gather, Vine's is getting a little long in the tooth as a serious lexicon. Mounce has definitions for both "when" (H518) and "mother" (H517) whereas Vine's only has H517 which is close enough in form to give a match. Even TLOT disgraced itself with this word.

Interestingly: LHI puts it in the femanine ... C - VaI3FS

if - [she] places|makes

אִם־תָּשִׂ֤ים

ʾim-tāśîm

אִם · שׂים

ʾim · śym

if · (she) places|makes

C · VaI3FS

David Ames

Summary so far: [open for review]
Vines has a note that it does not cover the word and did that note get hit?

Then, once the resource got hit, the place where that word should have been gets hit and we, missing the warning note, and seeing text we assume that the text we see is the hit and don't notice that the hit was for the empty space just before the text on Mother.

Room4more

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465963#Comment_465963

Summary so far: [open for review]
Vines has a note that it does not cover the word and did that note get hit?

Then, once the resource got hit, the place where that word should have been gets hit and we, missing the warning note, and seeing text we assume that the text we see is the hit and don't notice that the hit was for the empty space just before the text on Mother.

upon further review and research I was thinking along the same. And this does stand to reason, we did not see a screeshot of his results but I did notice a spacing on mine....

Bootjack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465966#Comment_465966

Here's a couple screen shots ---

Bootjack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465975#Comment_465975

Bootjack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465976#Comment_465976

Again, my point being - Vines should not come up in that list when it's not giving the word I'm asking for.

Room4more

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465977#Comment_465977

Again, my point being - Vines should not come up in that list when it's not giving the word I'm asking for.

This reply box is all messed up.

Yes you are correct, maybe the techies @ Logos should have a gander at this, BUT you are pulling up 517 from Vines, which is strange indeed since the ## shows 'H518' in your display[second screenshot-KJV], other resources have this as "if, when, could be, etc., etc."

As an IE> right click again and do the BWS on the lemma, looking at the 'ROOT' and you will read what I mean....

hope this helps....

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465977#Comment_465977

Well, Bootjack, you arrived at an interesting question.

We all bounce around in our reading. In my case, the book on Anat was finally released from imprisonment in its collection; I bought it hoping it was Libronix. It wasn't so I got a refund. But in the meantime Anat (mother / brother) came up for air under your search (along with Demons and Deities for 'Mother' also). I suspect the TLOT connection is the answer that Dave aludes to, but we'd need some serious expertise. There's a whole raft of books mentioning 'Mother'.

Room4more

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465981#Comment_465981

Just did a quick gleaning again......Vines is the only one that I have giving the error of 'mother' - so it seems to be isolated to just that resource.....bootjack pass this along to the techies.....

[sadly I do not get this error in my other bible programs...just Logos......hhhmm(?)]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465982#Comment_465982

Room4More ... you need more books. The lemma tracking to 'Mother' is not that unusual.

Room4more

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465985#Comment_465985

Room4More ... you need more books. The lemma tracking to 'Mother' is not that unusual.

Hmmm I do not remember giving you remote access to my system, are you tele-pathetic perhaps?

Room4more

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465985#Comment_465985

Room4More ... you need more books. The lemma tracking to 'Mother' is not that unusual.

Maybe I replied to quickly dmb, but aside from your troll's comment, how is it that I say that from my various Bible programs that Logos Vines resource is the only fallibal link, thus including my word resources[lex,dicts, etc., etc.] that you can assume that it is not that unusual.....? I will give room for your further words....you have my attention:

Bootjack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465982#Comment_465982

Give me the e-mail address if you don't mind as to who to send this error to - thanks!

Room4more

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/466006#Comment_466006

Give me the e-mail address if you don't mind as to who to send this error to - thanks!

I usually just call....but then thats me. I think it is support@logos.com but I could be wrong.

Bootjack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/466007#Comment_466007

Good. I've e-mailed them regarding the issue so it's with them now. Appreciate the feedback!

Room4more

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/466051#Comment_466051

Good. I've e-mailed them regarding the issue so it's with them now. Appreciate the feedback!

KEWL!!

I am still awaiting to here from dmb how "if" can be confused with "mother" in a lemma search when the tagging is done correctly.....and this not be "unusual". When looking again at the LHI, i can read that the lemma is correct but do not understand how they confused "if" to correlate with "she"[mother]. Did they have a bad monitor when doing the tagging and the pixels were messed up?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/466102#Comment_466102

I am still awaiting to here from dmb how "if" can be confused with "mother" in a lemma search when the tagging is done correctly....

the lemma search is usually not an issue. These words differ in vowel pointing and are sometimes used as the lemmas, but other morphologies treat them as homonyms and the search is lemma:אם.5 (unpointed). The issue is the lookup in a lexicon. How does a lexicon with vowel pointing know that אֵם is the intended word when the resource lemma is 5 אם? Even Mounce gets it wrong. The main lexicons get it right because Logos ensures there is a link i.e it doesn't rely on character matching. The other lexicons do and the nearest match is given.