Asking questions in Logos?

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Posts 33
Andrew Blye | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Mar 2 2013 8:58 AM

Is there a way to just ask a question in a search in Logos and find an answer among my library. Maybe I'm missing something, but it's faster at times just to ask Google a question. I have tried in Logos and yes I see a plethora of search results, but I'm not seeing any results that are answering my questions. it just seems more like it's giving me results because of the words used in my question. I've tried using quotation marks around my question and using keywords.

For example, I was asking "was Isaac a willing sacrifice?" On Google I nearly found an instant result asking the same thing.

With Logos I got results, but no answer. I even tried using keywords like "Isaac" and "Willing", but still not finding a satisfactory result.

Please help me discover the functionality for this in Logos. I imagine that it has to be there somewhere.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 9:40 AM

I tried out the fuzzy search in Logos3;  I didn't search my whole library but looked through the mishnah/talmud, the church fathers, pseudepigrapha and Anchor Yale Bible. It made interesting transitions especially on the word 'willing'. It didn't locate an 'Isaac' discussion on a 'willing' transition, but I'd guess Google's 'library' is far bigger than mine.

Bob (the Logos CEO) has committed to a fuzzy search in Logos4+. I'd assume with all the Logos databases, an expanded one would be far more powerful than Google (since has access to the language equivalents).

Specific to your question, I think you'll need to make heavy use of the 'comma' / OR functionality. Example: Isaac NEAR sacrifice NEAR (willing, planned) 

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 9:53 AM

I searched for      Isaac NEAR "willing sacrifice"     and it returned three results. One from the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges on Genesis. One from the "The Redeemer's Return". One from the Word Biblical Commentary on Genesis.

If you search in the form of a stated question it should be in quotes and should probably be stated as a question that is common. For example if I search for "How can I be saved" I get 32 results in 29 resources. "What do people believe about being saved" I get 0 results.

 

EDIT: It may be obvious, but search results will vary depending on the size of one's library and the resources they have.

Posts 33
Andrew Blye | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 10:05 AM

Thanks guys. I appreciate this feedback and you trying. It almost seems I have to know some kind of secret language of Logos to get it to do what I want.

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 10:09 AM

You may find this page on the wiki helpful. http://wiki.logos.com/Basic_Search

There are links to other pages that offer more detailed and advanced search help. With L5 users can also benefit from the examples provided in each of the search screens.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 10:19 AM

It's only secret because you didn't order the official Logos Magic Encoder Ring

As you can see from the link, there's three versions: Basic Encoder, Crossover Encoder, and of course Platinum Encoder 

Since often I use Logos at church, I selected the pretty one to match my outfit.

IMPORTANT: Don't confuse the 'encoder' rings with the 'decoder' rings. The latter are ONLY for reading greek/hebrew without an interlinear.

[I agree; Logos is not intuitive like Google.]

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 33
Andrew Blye | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 10:35 AM

ROFLOL! Pure Awesomeness. :) That made my day

Posts 2089
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 10:38 AM

Nearly broke my finger trying to click those links.

Posts 33
Andrew Blye | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 10:38 AM

And I agree, Google is freaky intuitive. So often, it guesses what I'm looking for before I even fully finish the first word. Hmm

Posts 33
Andrew Blye | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 10:39 AM

Should have hyperlinked those words  to Morris Proctor training. :)

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 3 2013 5:25 PM

Andrew Blye:
It almost seems I have to know some kind of secret language of Logos

You do - and it's not Catholic/Orthodox/Jew

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 19577
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 3 2013 6:13 PM

Yeah, Logos doesn't have natural language processing (the ability to answer normal English questions) in its search engine. I'm not sure how much NLP Google does in their search algorithm, but they are doing lots of research work into NLP.

http://research.google.com/pubs/NaturalLanguageProcessing.html

http://videolectures.net/russir2010_filippova_nlp/

Also Logos's search results rankings are based on frequency of words. Google has the benefit of having almost the entire Internet mapped as to the number of incoming links to each page, and that goes into their PageRank algorithm - so the more pages have links to a particular search hit, the more credible it will be as a result.

Logos could collect data about how people prioritize their resources and use that info to bump up the more frequently and highly prioritized ones (among the whole user base) higher in search rankings whenever we do a search.

Posts 33
Andrew Blye | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2013 9:44 AM

And the million $ question is why then did I just spend so much money on an amazing theological library that doesn't allow me to do and intelligent search of it to find particular bits of info?

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2013 9:59 AM

Andrew, you're wildly inflating the cost of your question; who can afford to answer you??

But your point is well taken. I won't grouse concerning having a major investment with little guidance on how to use it (yes, some videos; yes, excellent work from Steve and Rosie).

I will grouse, however, that I think Logos shoots themselves in the foot (feet). They have to be spending large, large amounts of money on all this software, but then they don't really market its power.

The proof of my point is how a Logos person will accidentally 'spill the beans' with a very useful piece of information on the software or the linkages.

And quite frankly, it's hard to 'sell' to others what you kind of hazily understand. I still remember where I 'was' before I got Logos and where I 'am' now (knowledge-wise, not behavior-wise!). Just unbelievable what Logos can do.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 13428
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2013 11:53 AM

Andrew Blye:
And the million $ question is why then did I just spend so much money on an amazing theological library that doesn't allow me to do and intelligent search of it to find particular bits of info?

Two days ago I wrote these two sentences for some Logos training I'm doing: "The problem with this search is that I’m describing what I want rather than thinking of keywords that will appear in a Logos resource... Remember, Logos is your research assistant, but you’re still the researcher – and the more you help Logos, then the more Logos will help you."

Why can't you find an answer: Either (a) there isn't an answer in the few or so resources that you own [few compared to Google's index], or (b) your search isn't smart enough. Personally, I found a few answers with Isaac NEAR "willing sacrifice", and many more with (Isaac NEAR willing) AND sacrifice. I also tried (Isaac NEAR unwilling) AND sacrifice to see if I could find anyone arguing otherwise, but I couldn't.

What you're asking for is definitely the way Logos want to go, but it will be a very long time before it gets there. Here's a great post from Logos CEO, Bob Pritchett: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/55023/400008.aspx#400008

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2013 12:08 PM

Mark Barnes:

Andrew Blye:
And the million $ question is why then did I just spend so much money on an amazing theological library that doesn't allow me to do and intelligent search of it to find particular bits of info?

Two days ago I wrote these two sentences for some Logos training I'm doing: "The problem with this search is that I’m describing what I want rather than thinking of keywords that will appear in a Logos resource... Remember, Logos is your research assistant, but you’re still the researcher – and the more you help Logos, then the more Logos will help you."

Why can't you find an answer: Either (a) there isn't an answer in the few or so resources that you own [few compared to Google's index], or (b) your search isn't smart enough. Personally, I found a few answers with Isaac NEAR "willing sacrifice", and many more with (Isaac NEAR willing) AND sacrifice. I also tried (Isaac NEAR unwilling) AND sacrifice to see if I could find anyone arguing otherwise, but I couldn't.

What you're asking for is definitely the way Logos want to go, but it will be a very long time before it gets there. Here's a great post from Logos CEO, Bob Pritchett: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/55023/400008.aspx#400008

Mark, I agree most of what you said above. I did try your search (Isaac NEAR Willing) AND sacrifice and found many more results as well. However in evaluating those results, many of them had nothing to do with Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac, and were not really useful.

It is a good idea for users to play with the available search strings in order to develop search skills and get the most out of the library resources we have.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2013 12:40 PM

Hmmm. Probably Andrew didn't mean for the thread as a 'discussion'. So I'll be quiet-ish. I just don't agree with Mark, having used Libronix (nor, for that matter, Bob's long-winded discussion for that matter). In between Logos' older fuzzy architecture, the newer Logos4/5 indexing, and the community statistics ...

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 907
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 5 2013 8:32 AM

DMB:

... a major investment with little guidance on how to use it (yes, some videos; yes, excellent work from Steve and Rosie).

... I think Logos shoots themselves in the foot (feet). They have to be spending large, large amounts of money on all this software, but then they don't really market its power.

I think that all new Logos users suffer through understanding it's complex usage.  The business model that forces (no, not too strong a description) serious users to spend even more of their resources for professional training is....odd.  Logos competitors offer weekly online training at no additional cost, or even 1on1 personalized training for a modest fee (subjective).  The LearnLogos free webinars are fabulous!  Yet, Logos the company has yet to structure a Beginner to Expert training path that is both free and online.

I've been in the Logos stable for 9 years and invested ~$3.5k in Logos resources over the years.  I've proselytized friends, family, and students into buying Logos... today, not one of them is actively using it. Why?  None of them is willing or able to make the investment in time and attention to learn how to use it.

"I read dead people..."

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 5 2013 8:53 AM

Brother Mark, you're so right. Most people have a life. (Like you!). They have kids, spouses, broken water softeners (mine), and people at church with really odd questions. They google, Facebook, Twitter (all having their own 'rules'). Some write music, do art, write, etc, each requiring even more rules, etc.

It just surprises me how much effort goes into Logos, but not on the 'average' user end. I will also suspect that the Logos customer-base has few 'expert' users (judging from the constant confusion with syntax searches). Someday (realistically 'never') I'd like to understand Dave in Australia; how does he do it?

And I'm forever surprised Logos does so little marketing (again for 'users'). Something apparently designed for significant training normally needs some significant marketing explanation. I'd give pretty good odds, other than the guy in charge of Logos marketing, they don't know the software, and they don't know what they call 'the product'.  I know for sure the resource copy-writers don't know their product; most writeups don't come close to the value of the resource.

I have 'weened' my way off of Logos (except of course for this Thursday night's big download ... Rick's NT Apocrypha ... I plan to learn a lot), but I'd still like to 'sell' Logos to others. It's amazing. Multi-platform. Faithlife. Proclaim. Wow!

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 5 2013 9:08 AM

You ever play Chess?

Think of it in terms of playing a good game with someone who is better than yourself, you can only get better if you try. There are many ways to capture the King[objective], many different roads and avenues to endure to get and conquer the Objective. Logos can be a game of chess, only the rules are often redundantly simple.

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

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