NT Quotes of the OT

It also has been my experience that not much happens in many Faithlife groups. Perhaps it will take time for them to catch on.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478040#Comment_478040

Kevin and Bruce, Peace to you!

Have either of you downloaded into your Logos Note Files the magnificent super-large note file by Kevin Becker who started the group!

That document is listed under the group documents ....

I have been personally working with that file for quite some time now and probably should have posted the odd comment onto this FaithLife group! I think there's the possibility of some great discussions there; however, I've been so pressed for time lately that I've not been pro-active -- but rather re-active!

If you haven't downloaded that file, I strongly suggest it! and then compare it with your studies and efforts .... *smile* It represents untold hours of labour and is quite thorough and well-done indeed! Extremely helpful!

Blessings! This old guy has to go to bed soon!....................... eh???

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478040#Comment_478040

It's my understanding that Faithlife groups were originally intended to facilitate "real life" groups. The catch 22 in my opinion is that most people you know are already using other social media (I.e. Facebook & Twitter). If Faithlife isn't something they are likely to join, or won't check regularly, what's point?

I see a lot of potential with Faithlife. I also see areas which need much improvement. If I were in a vocational ministry role, I would be most open to trying out Faithlife with a group of volunteer staff members. I would love to work through books together... (but this area needs improvement... the forums are currently more suited for discussion). If its adoption went well, I would see if it could be expanded. I do see another possible entry point... which is through the use of the study bible. If I had a group studying the bible and wanted to provide everyone with a study bible, I'd consider Faithlife, which would provide a common platform.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478043#Comment_478043

Every time I try to use Faithlife I find it totally clunky and not very intuitive. Maybe I just don't understand it or maybe it is just awkward. For instance I tried to find the note file by Kevin Becker and and it took a while. Once I found it, it seemed to be greyed out so that I could not access it. From this thread it looks like others have also been frustrated.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478048#Comment_478048

Same here. I tried starting a group so I could do bible study with my children. "Not intuitive"...yeah, that's my experience. I didn't know how to open it up, turn it on, get it to do anything. I shook it, pounded it on the floor...nothing. I think it needs batteries...but I could be wrong.

Allen Browne

Anyone interested in the subject line of this thread should consider getting Beale & Carson's Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament while it's 75% off:

http://www.logosmarchmadness.com/2013/round-7-deals/#carson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478058#Comment_478058

I didn't know how to open it up, turn it on, get it to do anything. I shook it, pounded it on the floor...nothing. I think it needs batteries...but I could be wrong.

[:D]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478040#Comment_478040

It also has been my experience that not much happens in many Faithlife groups. Perhaps it will take time for them to catch on.

It has been my experience that there's a bit of interest up front when a group gets created and people are invited/encouraged to join, but then the novelty wears off and people go back to whatever else they were doing. Kind of like Google+ turned out to be a big fizzle as far as I'm concerned (most of my friends who opened accounts on it kept their Facebook accounts and don't post anything on G+ anymore).

It's a self-reinforcing problem. If nobody is posting anything good, other early adopters are going to stop visiting after a while.

I don't know how social media gain traction. It seems there has to be a critical mass. And perhaps a felt need that is strong enough to overcome inertia and the pull from Facebook and the forums and in-person Bible studies. Who is really sitting around in their small groups thinking -- gee, I really wish we could carry on this conversation throughout the week online until we meet again? But that's kind of the audience that Faithlife is aimed at. So where's the felt need? That's what I'm wondering?

It's a good concept, and I hope it takes off. But I have my doubts. Nobody in my personal circle of fellow Christians is a Logos user. So I'm not likely to be using Faithlife at all. I gave it a beta trial to see what it was all about, but my general response to it is "meh."

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478090#Comment_478090

Who is really sitting around in their small groups thinking -- gee, I really wish we could carry on this conversation throughout the week online until we meet again? But that's kind of the audience that Faithlife is aimed at. So where's the felt need? That's what I'm wondering?

When I was in ministry leadership, I would have found great value in being able to discuss a book "in the meantimes." Consider a deacon or elder board, for example. It has been my experience that some of these leadership groups get it into their skulls that they should learn things together (and they should!) Unfortunately, it has also been my experience that these groups often 1) don't read the material through the week and 2) "rush" through the material during meetings so that they can get to the "real business" (I wish they would see corporate learning as the REAL business, but that is another thing...)

The mistakes are obvious (at least to me): There is no accountability (in a good sense, not a heavy handed one). When people aren't prepared to discuss, they begin to pray for the time to end. When no one adds to the discussion, the leader rushes through it. I saw this in an elder meeting at a church I was interviewing with just a few weeks ago.

One of the problems I see with Faithlife, is that conversations really can't happen. Sorry to the devs, but it really stinks right now. The forums are MUCH better at facilitating conversation.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478048#Comment_478048

Every time I try to use Faithlife I find it totally clunky and not very intuitive. Maybe I just don't understand it or maybe it is just awkward. For instance I tried to find the note file by Kevin Becker and and it took a while. Once I found it, it seemed to be greyed out so that I could not access it. From this thread it looks like others have also been frustrated.

Peace, Bruce! I'm becoming a wee bit fond of you because of your positive and intelligent posts over many a moon and also because you are my neighbour living just North of me! You are appreciated! ........... and FaithLife IS awkward!

That said ..... I also had difficulty at first learning how to download a document into my notefiles. But, please keep trying. Kevin's note is fantastic. I will be working with it and building on it for years to come .... probably "splitting" it a few times in the process .....

(The worst thing about FaithLife "grouping" is there is NO documentation. I know I'm missing all kinds of things. I want to do a group with seniors in my own congregation, but I need first to find the time to come up with my own "manual" since I can't find organised notes anywhere on establishing and operating a good group. This troubles me .... however, I am the patient and optimistic sort of guy (usually ... *smile*)

Right now what I need is a few extra hours a day! *smile* .... AND a MANUAL!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478111#Comment_478111

Hi Milford

I want to do a group with seniors in my own congregation, but I need first to find the time to come up with my own "manual" since I can't find organised notes anywhere on establishing and operating a good grou

Have you seen the video on creating a group (and related topics) at https://faithlife.com/help?

Does it help at all?

Graham

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478111#Comment_478111

Every time I try to use Faithlife I find it totally clunky and not very intuitive. Maybe I just don't understand it or maybe it is just awkward. For instance I tried to find the note file by Kevin Becker and and it took a while. Once I found it, it seemed to be greyed out so that I could not access it. From this thread it looks like others have also been frustrated.

Peace, Bruce!                        I'm becoming a wee bit fond of you because of your positive and intelligent posts over many a moon and also because you are my neighbour living just North of me!         You are appreciated!            ........... and FaithLife IS awkward!

                    That said .....            I also had difficulty at first learning how to download a document into my notefiles. But, please keep trying. Kevin's note is fantastic. I will be working with it and building on it for years to come ....   probably "splitting" it a few times in the process .....

            (The worst thing about FaithLife "grouping" is there is NO documentation.   I know I'm missing all kinds of things.      I want to do a group with seniors in my own congregation, but I need first to find the time to come up with my own "manual" since I can't find organised notes anywhere on establishing and operating a good group. This troubles me ....         however, I am the patient and optimistic sort of guy   (usually ...    *smile*)

          Right now what I need is a few extra hours a day!     *smile*                                ....   AND a MANUAL!

I too appreciate your posts and insight.

Can you explain to me the specific steps how to access this wonderful document to which you refer?

I think what Faithlife could use is a clear explanation of how to access and use documents right on the Faithlife page.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478135#Comment_478135

Blessings to Bruce and Graham! Am leaving my study for a few hours ... will be back later today! *smile*

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478135#Comment_478135

Hi Bruce

Can you explain to me the specific steps how to access this wonderful document to which you refer?

The first thing you need to do is to join the group which Kevin set up to share his document - "OT Quotes in NT"

Go to Faithlife.com, search for the group, click on it and join it (you will find a "Join" button towards the top right of the screen)

Then go to documents.logos.com and select the group from the drop-down menu

Then get a copy of the Notes document (and the highlighting palette if required)

This notes document will now appear in your set of Notes documents in your Logos 5 environment.

Hope this helps - please post back if any of this doesn't make sense.

Graham

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478146#Comment_478146

Thanks Graham, I did join the group and clicked on documents but the document I want is greyed out so I didn't know what to do from there.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478149#Comment_478149

Hi Bruce

I did join the group and clicked on documents but the document I want is greyed out

I don't understand why the document is greyed out within Faithlife - but did you try going to https://documents.logos.com/ and downloading it from there? (Steps 2 and 3 in my post above)

Graham

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478155#Comment_478155

Hi Bruce

I did join the group and clicked on documents but the document I want is greyed out

I don't understand why the document is greyed out within Faithlife - but did you try going to https://documents.logos.com/ and downloading it from there? (Steps 2 and 3 in my post above)

Graham

Again this is a great example at how clunky Faithlife is. I'm probably doing something wrong. I went to document.logo.com and could not find any drop down menu so I then searched for intertexuality (which I think is the title) but nothing happens when I press search. No message comes up. Nothing happens. I feel stupid, which means Faithlife didn't pass the "idiot test". It should be easier than this.

I just figured out what you meant. I left the above to show the process of my frustration. You mean the drop down arrow beside my name. I thought that was to do with changing people and not accessing groups. This needs to be clearer in my opinion. I've left up this with the hope that it will help others stuck in the same circle that I experienced.

Anyhow, I now have access to the document. Thanks Graham.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478167#Comment_478167

Hi Bruce

You mean the drop down arrow beside my name. I thought that was to do with changing people and not accessing groups. This needs to be clearer in my opinion

That is a fair point!

Anyhow, I now have access to the document. Thanks Graham.

Excellent[:)]

Enjoy, Graham

Kevin Maples

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478042#Comment_478042

Have either of you downloaded into your Logos Note Files the magnificent super-large note file by Kevin Becker who started the group!

I haven't yet. I don't really know how, but I'll check the documentation online and figure it out. He mentioned it to me in a comment, I just haven't made time to check it out.

Kevin Maples

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478043#Comment_478043

It's my understanding that Faithlife groups were originally intended to facilitate "real life" groups.

I see. However, could they not operate like a forum? A place where people of like interests discuss theological or biblical matters.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478186#Comment_478186

However, could they not operate like a forum? A place where people of like interests discuss theological or biblical matters.

Sure. But the format just isn't really good for that, in my opinion. Perhaps one day it will be.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478190#Comment_478190

I ran a "book study" on Faithlife, and to be honest, it was quite a chore… for no other reason than conversations were difficult to maintain. These forums are better at it… but still not ideal.

For example: If I ask 10 questions about a chapter in a book - How do you separate responses to each question? In the forums, you could create a thread for each question… but that would still present some problems. Would you have a separate forum for each chapter? Also, it doesn't make sense to have the newest response appear… you need the FIRST response to appear.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478171#Comment_478171

Hi Bruce

You mean the drop down arrow beside my name. I thought that was to do with changing people and not accessing groups. This needs to be clearer in my opinion

That is a fair point!

Anyhow, I now have access to the document. Thanks Graham.

Excellent

Enjoy, Graham

Hi Everyone .... Finally back from my peregrinations! *smile* Graham, I DO praise God for the fantastic Brother He has made of you! Thanks for spelling out so very well how to open a FaithLife Document! If you don't mind, I'll be saving that and using it to help someone "down the road," eh??? Kindest personal greetings!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478115#Comment_478115

Hi Milford

I want to do a group with seniors in my own congregation, but I need first to find the time to come up with my own "manual" since I can't find organised notes anywhere on establishing and operating a good grou

Have you seen the video on creating a group (and related topics) at https://faithlife.com/help?

Does it help at all?

Graham

Yes, indeed! It does help! I'd never seen that page before. Actually, I think I'd better really, really study FaithLife before I start inviting people. Which I will do! I think FaithLife might be very helpful in my relationships with my Brothers and Sisters; and I plan to patiently work on the "rough edges"! *smile* Maybe I'll have to write my own .docx Manual???

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478309#Comment_478309

Finally back from my peregrinations!

I love that word! A friend of mine in seminary wrote a paper once on "peregrinatio" as a spiritual discipline, ranking up there with other Latin terms like lectio divina, which encompasses lectio (reading), meditatio (meditation), oratio (prayer), and contemplatio (contemplation).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478315#Comment_478315

Finally back from my peregrinations!

I love that word! A friend of mine in seminary wrote a paper once on "peregrinatio" as a spiritual discipline, ranking up there with other Latin terms like lectio divina, which encompasses lectio (reading), meditatio (meditation), oratio (prayer), and contemplatio (contemplation).

Amen, Rosie! *smile* Peace!

Your post makes me feel good about Luther; and I thank you indeed!

The Attainment of Theological Aptitude

Luther writes in the preface to the first part of his German books in 1539 (St. L. XIV:434ff.): "Let me show you a right method for studying theology, the one that I have used. If you adopt it, you will become so learned that if it were necessary, you yourself would be qualified to produce books just as good as those of the Fathers and the church councils. Even as I dare to be so bold in God as to pride myself, without arrogance or lying, as not being greatly behind some of the Fathers in the matter of making books; as to my life, I am far from being their equal.²⁵⁴ This method is the one which the pious king David teaches in the 119th Psalm and which, no doubt, was practiced by all the Patriarchs and Prophets. In the 119th Psalm you will find three rules, which are abundantly expounded throughout the entire Psalm. They are called: Oratio, Meditatio, Tentatio." Matthias Hafenreffer, professor of theology and chancellor of the university of Tuebingen (d. 1619), places this axiom of Luther at the head of his dogmatics,²⁵⁵ at the same time expanding it on the basis of Scripture and applying it to conditions of his day. Among the theologians of the last century Rudelbach (d. 1862) had this to say in an address on Luther’s instruction as to the study of theology: "You are familiar with the great word of Luther: Oratio, meditatio, tentatio faciunt theologum. This word comprises our entire theological methodology. Here, just as is the case with every thought sealed by the Spirit of God, there is nothing to add, nothing to subtract." ²⁵⁶There can be no doubt that the distressing lack of true teachers would be quickly ended if Luther’s methodology were observed everywhere.

Luther explains the necessity of the oratio thus: "First, you should know that Holy Scripture is a book such as will make the wisdom of all other books appear as folly, since no book teaches anything concerning eternal life but this one alone. Therefore you should straightway despair of your own wit and intellect, for with them you will attain nothing, but by such arrogance y (Sorry ... a bit long .... could go on and on; however, will just read it again for myself .. *smile* If anyone wants me to continue re. meditation, tentatio faciunt theologum, please respond to this post or start a new thread, and I'll give you ... "the rest of the story" ......... )

^{^[1]} Pieper, F. (1953). Vol. 1: Christian Dogmatics
(electronic ed.) (186–187). St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478318#Comment_478318

That word caught my attention too but I must confess it is not a regular part of my vocabulary.

[:P]

per·e·gri·na·tion

[per-i-gruh-ney-shuh

n] noun
1. travel from one place to another, especially on foot.

2.a course of travel; journey.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478321#Comment_478321

That word caught my attention too but I must confess it is not a regular part of my vocabulary.

per·e·gri·na·tion

[per-i-gruh-ney-shuhn] noun 1. travel from one place to another, especially on foot. 2.a course of travel; journey.

You probably were aware of the word's root without realizing it: peregrine falcons are so named because of their migratory habits.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478323#Comment_478323

That word caught my attention too but I must confess it is not a regular part of my vocabulary.

per·e·gri·na·tion

[per-i-gruh-ney-shuhn] noun 1. travel from one place to another, especially on foot. 2.a course of travel; journey.

You probably were aware of the word's root without realizing it: peregrine falcons are so named because of their migratory habits.

And who says that etymology is not important in word studies. [;)]

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478167#Comment_478167

Again this is a great example at how clunky Faithlife is..... It should be easier than this.

[Y]

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478058#Comment_478058

"Not intuitive"...yeah, that's my experience. I didn't know how to open it up, turn it on, get it to do anything. I shook it, pounded it on the floor...nothing. I think it needs batteries...but I could be wrong.

[Y][:D]

One of the problems I see with Faithlife, is that conversations really can't happen. Sorry to the devs, but it really stinks right now. The forums are MUCH better at facilitating conversation.

[Y] How ironical, given that the forums are supposed to discourage conversation, and Faithlife was meant to encourage conversation to move there instead...

Personally, I was thoroughly turned off the very first day, when a) I discovered that they had made most of my private information visible to all by default, without even telling me, and b) I was informed that I couldn't join a group without the group admin getting access to my real name. Due to that I haven't joined a single group, though I'm 'observing' a few.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478192#Comment_478192

For example: If I ask 10 questions about a chapter in a book - How do you separate responses to each question?

What if you asked each question in a post

then they would reply to each post as to a thread

Question one

john's reply one

jane's reply one

etc I took the admin responsibility for the group for my church [some one had to fix the phone number] Had someone post three posts and I could reply to each and faith life seems to keep each thread together - only did a simple one reply to each test.

EDIT: Ask question number 10 first! so that question number 1 will list first - if you ask question one first it will be on the bottom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478715#Comment_478715

b) I was informed that I couldn't join a group without the group admin getting access to my real name.

As an Admin I was not able to see the 'real' name nor the real email of a member in my group

BUT there may be other ways to find it.

I tried looking at the profile, as admin, and all I saw was the Logos screen name.

BUT there may be other ways to find it.

[[Does not mean that it can't be done - Make up the identity of your dreams and use that ----- and see how long it takes us to figure out it is really you using the identity that you wished you were ---- we are on the internet - have fun hiding and pretend you are some one else]] [[it is not a lie unless you use it to lie - hiding does not count]]

[[ I use way too many '[' and ']' they would catch me on the second post!]]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478715#Comment_478715

I discovered that they had made most of my private information visible to all by default, without even telling me

I'm sure that was an oversight, but still… [:S]

I was informed that I couldn't join a group without the group admin getting access to my real name.

I don't know if that is still true… but in any case, the original intent was for fostering conversations in "real life" groups. Presumably, the others in the "real life" group would know that info anyways.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478725#Comment_478725

Peace, David! Thank you! You are much appreciated!

Also appreciated is your "cool" humour! *smile*

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478723#Comment_478723

What if you asked each question in a post

David - Deep and Wide Discussion Group in Faithlife. You can see how our discussion went.

If there was any interest, I would be willing to start a new group to read through a resource. Nothing too deep though… [;)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478730#Comment_478730

If there was any interest, I would be willing to start a new group to read through a resource. Nothing too deep though…

This is a good idea. It would be nice if we could pick and choose from a number of groups like this but it is almost impossible to search for this since Faithlife doesn't seem to allow for categories of groups which we could use to sort them.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478730#Comment_478730

David - Deep and Wide Discussion Group in Faithlife. You can see how our discussion went.

OK, joined and looked at the group, got the book - will not make sense if I don't read it. Answered the first question. [repeated below]

Question: What made you want to read Deep & Wide? Have you read anything by Andy Stanley before? If so, what? Have you ever visited North Point Church (or one of its campuses)?

Answer:

""alabama24 asked me to 'review' this group so, as it was only $13, I got a copy.

No, I have never read anything by Andy Stanley.

And No to visiting that church.

May take until Monday to read that section [2013/04/08] [yr mo da the only correct way to list dates] [imho]""

Maybe if you let a few of us review that group 'WE' can make the next one work better [that is maybe hold off for a while for feed back]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478741#Comment_478741

Maybe if you let a few of us review that group 'WE' can make the next one work better

Sounds good. It took me a while to find your post, but eventually I got there. [:)]

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478744#Comment_478744

Looked this up on Amazon. Based on the subtitle of this book, I decided to read the 1's. To be sure, there aren't many, and the book is a solid 5 stars,which is hard to pull off when your book has more than a dozen or so reviews. But for me, the tornado sirens went off when I looked at the full title, and the first review here confirmed exactly what I would expect to gather from the book if I read it myself. I won't be reading it myself.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478744#Comment_478744

Maybe if you let a few of us review that group 'WE' can make the next one work better

Sounds good. It took me a while to find your post, but eventually I got there.

Sorry, I hid it where I thought that it belonged - at the end of the list of answers to Question one.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478782#Comment_478782

But for me, the tornado sirens went off when I looked at the full title,

When I finish reading it I will get back to you. That review is my first guess about the book but as we were also asked to comment on Faith life as a discussion media have to read the book to join in the discussion. Will try to keep an open mind until after reading the last page. [just as if I was on Jury Duty and that book was the defendant]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478782#Comment_478782

I love the subject line of the "one star" review: I dislike this book because he is right!

I'll take that any day. [;)]

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478808#Comment_478808

I love the subject line of the "one star" review: I dislike this book because he is right!

I'll take that any day.

I think what he meant by that is that people are easily sucked into phenomena that appeal to them. The summation he gives--these principles will fill stadium seats whether God is involved or not--is the point. What I gather from the statement is that he means "this author makes the case that sheeple are easily manipulated and can be allured with creature comforts, glitz, and soothing messages." If that's the message of the book, then the reviewer is right...the author is right.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478725#Comment_478725

Make up the identity of your dreams and use that

The way Faithlife is designed you have to use the same identity as in your Logos account.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478934#Comment_478934

Make up the identity of your dreams and use that

The way Faithlife is designed you have to use the same identity as in your Logos account.

open a new logos account???

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478968#Comment_478968

It doesn't work that way. If the Faithlife account isn't tied to the Logos account, you can't get community notes, group Reading Plans, shared documents, etc into Logos.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478790#Comment_478790

Sounds good. It took me a while to find your post, but eventually I got there.

Have answered the next question [define church]

Yes, the forums are more useful.

Also it took me three posts to post my current answer - was too long.

[at this point we are still in the section where he is telling what he did]
The interesting part will be when he starts "guiding" us into reforming to his way.
[Where most of us are "locked" into some version of church rules handed down by our denomination.]

Have given you simple answers as my main purpose is to comment on the usability of faith life.

it is lacking - too hard to find old stuff - you can not just jump to question one and all its answers with out reading all the other questions. and if some one comes in late [as I did] they are going to get frustrated real fast. [what if you had had 200 members?]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/479007#Comment_479007

I'm glad you are struggling through it David. Hopefully we will be able to provide constructive critique for the devs.