Is everyone here rich... or do you have a wealthy church paying your way?

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Posts 6
Rod Romo | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jul 1 2013 3:03 PM

OK... I took a breath before writing this...

BUT,

Back in around 1999 I spent around $250 for "the big collection" and loaded disk after disk and was a happy camper, even bought some more books and another fund raiser collection... then things changed a lot and it all got confusing with Libronix, a lot more difficult to load items and the constant updates, yikes.  Then in 2002 I had a computer die so when I went to reload my software I was told that I needed to buy an "Upgrade CD" and that was another $70.  I was making decent money back then so I didn't whine about a $70 charge for what I already spent $250 on...

Fast forward to now and I am trying to get my Android going and am told by sales that I should buy the latest engine for my PC for a couple of hundred dollars which will not include anything or what is really best, I could spend $600 and then I would get some stuff...  which one would I like?  (Seriously... the demeanor of the rep just thinking/acting like I am about to, even expected to, whip out my credit card is mind boggling.)

I already bought "Stuff" at the tune of over $400 but it seems I cannot get to my stuff.  I am very happy that my notes are still around, and I can use an online bible on my phone with it...

BUT... what is it with every time you call Logos they want to milk (at the least) a few hundred dollars?  I work at a job that is a third of the income I used to make and times are tough so I don't just have the money to enjoy what seems to have become a rich mans sport.  I don't want to muzzle the ox but... where is the limit?  I seem to be expected to spend well over a thousand dollars for doing personal bible study?

I have been using Youversion.com for my phone lately and WOW! and before that/still it is/was Olivetree.com as they were one of the first for mobile way back in the day... it still works (Including a NASB WITH linked Strongs) and all the upgrades are free and all of the books I have bought over the years (at a mere fraction of Logos prices) are readily accessible any time I want to re-download or change phones.

I have been with Logos for a long time in computer years and from this old timer I submit my request and advice... become more affordable and dependable.

Or maybe you can just keep on going with pastors that have lots of expense money & rich people that do not care but this is one meager lay person that has been frustrated and priced out of any further appreciation of your services at this time.  I hope you are able to put together (much) better pricing and attract a lot more customers because of it.

God Bless and best wishes

Rod

Posts 9151
LogosEmployee

I'm sorry you had a bad experience calling Sales today.

The Logos software is always available for free; you can download it from http://www.logos.com/installation.

It won't include all the latest data sets (that you may have been asked to purchase on the phone), but it will work on any modern Windows or Mac computer, and will sync notes and highlighting with the Android version (which is also available for free).

Posts 2898
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 3:25 PM

All the books and resources that you have already bought should work fine with the free software engine.  So you really should not be out a cent more to use all that you have bought.  Of course, your computer has to be able to run one of the fairly recent versions of windows, but that is true for any software.

Books - especially reference books and commentaries - are expensive whether you buy them in paper or electronic format like Logos.  But the Bibles and tools you have already bought shouldn't cost you anything.

Blessings my brother.  Logos has a number of free resources.  I especially recommend the Faith Study Bible.  I think you would like what it offers, and the price is right.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 6
Rod Romo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 3:46 PM

So should my books that I bought be available to the Android? 

Posts 2292
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 3:52 PM

Rod Romo:

So should my books that I bought be available to the Android? 

 Yes.  Though there are rare occasions when Logos is unable to license some books for mobile use, but for the most part, everything you have should work once you download the Bible app and log in to your account.

 

 

 

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 4:01 PM

I am not rich and spend more on Logos than I should, but saying that I am not sad about it. We all prioritize what we spend money on.  Logos is one of the more expensive software one can buy for Bible Study, others have starter packages beginning at $49.95. Logos aims at a higher end market (rightly or wrongly). But as pointed out the basic engine is always free. I would hope Logos would make a much more inexpensive entry level package but that is for Logos to decide what is best for their business.

-Dan

Posts 6
Rod Romo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 4:12 PM

I would like to say that I am impressed and happy with the mobile app thus far... I wish the Strongs was linked to a bible... having to switch back and forth between books is kinda useless... a split screen perhaps?

I remember a long time ago being told that the upgrades to the engine/program were always free and today being told to spend a boat load of $$ really irked me... even back in 2002 when I bought the "Upgrade CD" to make "my stuff" work again, I lost a bunch of books because they were no longer compatible with the newer software.

Sorry... I'll stop grumbling but I gotta tell you, I am not going to spend another penny with Logos until I see a better more trustworthy long term support model and more reasonable pricing.  Maybe support has gotten better and I am not aware... could be because I have been away for a while... but pricing?  Sheesh... when the first thing I hear from sales is that I need to spend $600 to make the $400 I have already spent to start working again, with nary an explanation of even why...

Like they say on the north-right coast fuhgeddaboudit

Posts 9528
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 4:17 PM

Rod Romo:
So should my books that I bought be available to the Android? 

It is possible some will not be. Not every publisher has given Logos rights to create versions that run on mobile platforms. You can discover this by loading the L5 desktop app and then going to Library, and opening the information panel on a resource.

Notice the small icons highlighted near the bottom of this scree capture. The blue rectangular icon is for the mobile Logos apps, indicating it is available for them.

Here is a second resource. Note it lacks the icons for a mobile app, meaning it is not available for those apps.

If you don't install the L5 desktop program, you can still find out if a resource is available for mobile apps. On a resource's description page on Logos.com there is a statement indicating if this is so:

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 2292
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 4:30 PM

Rod Romo:

I would like to say that I am impressed and happy with the mobile app thus far... I wish the Strongs was linked to a bible... having to switch back and forth between books is kinda useless... a split screen perhaps?

I remember a long time ago being told that the upgrades to the engine/program were always free and today being told to spend a boat load of $$ really irked me... even back in 2002 when I bought the "Upgrade CD" to make "my stuff" work again, I lost a bunch of books because they were no longer compatible with the newer software.

Sorry... I'll stop grumbling but I gotta tell you, I am not going to spend another penny with Logos until I see a better more trustworthy long term support model and more reasonable pricing.  Maybe support has gotten better and I am not aware... could be because I have been away for a while... but pricing?  Sheesh... when the first thing I hear from sales is that I need to spend $600 to make the $400 I have already spent to start working again, with nary an explanation of even why...

Like they say on the north-right coast fuhgeddaboudit

Some more answers that may make you happier!

1.  There is split screen.  If you look at the bottom right hand corner of the app while you're looking at a book, you will see a gray 1/4 circle.  Hold that with your finger and move it up.  There is the split screen!

2.  I know that there have been books in the past that did not work, but then were later fixed to work.  So I would look through and see if there is anything that you are missing that you should have under your account.

3.  Logos is more expensive, but you can take advantage of free books from Logos and Vyrso that show up every month, watch the twitter feed for 50% deals, and call customer service and ask for a better deal on resources.  They will often comply.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 6
Rod Romo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 4:33 PM

I do completely agree with you on all of that Dan.  I guess they make their living off of the higher end market, there must be enough niche there to keep the lights on.  You sure gotta wonder if that will last for much longer with e-readers and digital delivery of all things text completely taking over... now that the big boys are in the game like the Google, Apple, Barnes & Nobel and Amazon it would just seem to be a matter of time for a pigeon holed market like this to lose it's ground.  Hopefully they have enough IP (Intellectual Property; patients on design and delivery) to be bought out by a fat cat.

Still... it seems like some lower end packages would generate some volume... but if the product requires too much support then that is a money losing proposition.  Got to get it Cloud based and stable enough to remove the bulk of in-house (phone) sales & support to be able to drop prices so they can stay competitive in a VERY competitive market... unless it can remain the high end niche it is... I doubt it, sooner or later all of the publishers will be selling to all of the distributors and that will increase volume and decrease price.  The free market is always looking for the next opportunity.

Logos was on the scene long before anyone else... but like we have seen with the "local neighborhood book store"... nothing is guaranteed.

Posts 2292
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 4:40 PM

Rod Romo:

Got to get it Cloud based and stable enough to remove the bulk of in-house (phone) sales & support to be able to drop prices so they can stay competitive in a VERY competitive market...

The new versions of Logos, which you can download free from the above link, is cloud based.  The resources do still download to your computer (but not your mobile device unless you want it to), but I see that as a benefit, and not a negative.  They no longer deal in physical media for resources, unless there is some rare case that I am not thinking of.

Also, even though there is a push for e-readers, none of those big companies have the interconnectedness that Logos has, and which is critical for a biblical studies library.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 19314
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 4:44 PM

Logos has committed to making the resources we already own work on into the foreseeable future (which is quite a generous offer from them, given that new versions of Windows and new updates to the engine and typo reports and additional resources coming out which they need to add links to from old resources) mean they are constantly having to do work to keep those resources functioning. Upgrades to the engine will always be free. So theoretically you'll never have to spend another penny on Logos, unless you decide you want to add some new resources, or you're really keen to get a new feature that depends on a new resource or database (many of the new features they add don't, so you can still upgrade to the new free engine without any hassle or expenditure).

The other thing to keep in mind is that a resource bought once from Logos costs them money to keep supporting users who have it (users call in with problems -- their book has disappeared, or whatever), which is not the case with print-based books. So Logos really depends on customers buying more books in order to stay in business. Surely there is a range of income levels among users, and some who can afford to buy lots of books will be subsidizing the ongoing work of the company that benefits others who cannot afford to keep buying more books. This is as it should be, and is very much in the spirit of Acts 2:44-45.

So yes, some of us are (relatively) rich or have churches supporting our book budgets, while others prioritize Logos resources above most expenses (like Erasmus, who said: "If I have money, I buy books, if there is any left, I buy food."). Please don't hold it against others. The last of the Ten Commandments is "do not envy." If you email me (the name of this software (at) my full name with no punctuation (dot) com), I'll gift you some credit for Logos purchases.

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Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 4:47 PM

Rod Romo:

I would like to say that I am impressed and happy with the mobile app thus far... I wish the Strongs was linked to a bible... having to switch back and forth between books is kinda useless... a split screen perhaps?

I don't have an android device, but I assume you CAN go split screen (as does the iOS app).

Rod Romo:

when the first thing I hear from sales is that I need to spend $600 to make the $400 I have already spent to start working again, with nary an explanation of even why...

Sales job is to make sales. I'm not sure what you were told, but feel free to try the forums first. Let me take a stab at this...

  • The software is (and has been) free. 
  • You must pay for resources. 
  • Once you own a resource license, you should be able to continue using that resource across platforms
  • Logos continues to add features. Some of these require a considerable amount of time invested in creating resource data sets. To gain the new functionality of these features, you must purchase either a new base package or minimal cross grade. 
  • In most cases, You do not have to purchase anything to keep the same functionality moving forward
  • Sometimes moving forward requires changes. For example, Logos has changed the sync infrastructure so that syncing happens better on mobile. Logos used to charge for the "sermon file add in." Logos didn't like the implementation of this in Libronix. It was not offered initially in L4, but has since returned in a different incarnation for free. The old version is still available to any user who purchased it... But they must run the old software. 

Is there something specific that you want to do, that you were able to do, that you think you need to pay for to do now?

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 4:49 PM

Rod Romo:

So should my books that I bought be available to the Android? 

Resources for mobile device use should match http://biblia.com so can login with your Logos.com account, then look in Library.  Aware of 544 resources that are not (yet) available for mobile use.  Also the 260 volumes of the Qumran Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls Database are not available for mobile use.

Thankful for 430 free Vyrso eBooks since Thanksgiving 2011.  Wiki has => http://wiki.logos.com/Free_Logos_Books

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 6
Rod Romo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 4:51 PM

ah, thank you Joseph!

Just figured out the split screen.

anyone know if there is a bible that has Strongs numbers built into it?

The trouble with checking to see if I have all of my books is that I would have to install the old Logos program and then back it up which last time I tried I was told it wouldn't work for a couple of reasons.

There is a lot of very nicely operating good stuff here... not perfection, not cheap or even affordable but a blessing I appreciate just the same.  I guess I just "went off" a bit with what I feel was a careless "oh, just spend $600 more and everything will be better" comment.

Life is GOoD  

And thanks everyone else for your help!

Posts 2292
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 4:57 PM

I think once you play around with it you will be happy with what you have, and we all "go off" from time to time.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 29804
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 5:00 PM

Rod Romo:

anyone know if there is a bible that has Strongs numbers built into it?

The trouble with checking to see if I have all of my books is that I would have to install the old Logos program and then back it up which last time I tried I was told it wouldn't work for a couple of reasons.

I don't think that strong's is "built into" any of the bibles... Most of the time Strong's info is accessed via a reverse interlinear. I do know that there is a version of the NASB which is different than others and perhaps strong's is "built in."

It might be helpful for us to know what you actually own. The more specific and accurate you can be, the better. By the way, it is important that all of your resource licenses be linked to your Logos account email so that you can get discounts based upon what you own and access those resources online. 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 5:22 PM

Rod Romo:
The trouble with checking to see if I have all of my books is that I would have to install the old Logos program and then back it up which last time I tried I was told it wouldn't work for a couple of reasons.

One thought for installing old Logos program is using Windows XP in a virtual machine: e.g. several editions of Windows 7 included Windows XP Mode, which was useful for installing Logos 2.1g from an old CD then upgrading to Libronix 3.0g

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 4155
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 8:02 PM

Rod Romo:

I would like to say that I am impressed and happy with the mobile app thus far... I wish the Strongs was linked to a bible... having to switch back and forth between books is kinda useless... a split screen perhaps?

I remember a long time ago being told that the upgrades to the engine/program were always free and today being told to spend a boat load of $$ really irked me... even back in 2002 when I bought the "Upgrade CD" to make "my stuff" work again, I lost a bunch of books because they were no longer compatible with the newer software.

Sorry... I'll stop grumbling but I gotta tell you, I am not going to spend another penny with Logos until I see a better more trustworthy long term support model and more reasonable pricing.  Maybe support has gotten better and I am not aware... could be because I have been away for a while... but pricing?  Sheesh... when the first thing I hear from sales is that I need to spend $600 to make the $400 I have already spent to start working again, with nary an explanation of even why...

Like they say on the north-right coast fuhgeddaboudit

Like you I have had Logos for a long time, and like you I wandered through the catacombs of bible software apart from logos for a time, but I came back after Libronix, and plan on staying.

Every book I've ever purchased is /Still/ available to me (L2 level 3, L2 Series X, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum, plus a number of bargain L3 titles off major internet vendors in the last year or so). I was given a free update from the L4 engine to the L5 engine. But chose in the long run to make the jump to a larger package (and then jumped a second time to platinum more recently).

I've got nothing but good things to say about Logos, and the sales and customer support team.

Being a student, and interim pastor of a tiny church, money is always tight. The sales people respect that and have always worked within the parameters that I set forth to provide me with the best possible deal on the most items (except zondervan titles, which are apparently not negotiable).

Rod Romo:

The trouble with checking to see if I have all of my books is that I would have to install the old Logos program and then back it up which last time I tried I was told it wouldn't work for a couple of reasons.



Actually... there is a spreadsheet. You can look on it to see what titles you should have, and compare it to what is in your library.

There is one big caveat though, several times throughout the life of a given package there will be updates (IE there are several versions of L2 Series X "Scholars" qr, L something, and a third). Using the L2 Series X Scholars package as an example, I bought one online that was L (something). The Spreadsheet had the Scholars package that was being sold when the L2 Series X Scholars package first came out. The Lsomething package came out at some point later. Therefore there was about 10 resources difference between what I had, and the spreadsheet.

However, you can use the links in the spreadsheet and the wayback machine (archive.org), and a rough idea of when you bought the software, and you can figure out exactly what was in the package without installing XP as a virtual machine.

In fact, if you like, post what time of the year you bought your initial package, and I can post the link to which package it should be, and what resources were included at that point in time. 

Note: This does not work for Verbum packages, nor any package that had a # in the URL. 

L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 19314
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 8:19 PM

abondservant:
Actually... there is a spreadsheet. You can look on it to see what titles you should have, and compare it to what is in your library.

Here's the thread about the spreadsheet abondservant was referring to, with a link to where you can find the spreadsheet on the web.

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