Should I purchase a few books for some future friend?
Hi!
I'm not going to promote it (I think he's going to be able to sell them), so I'm not going to give a lot of details, but there is an ad about a small library, just a small base-package with nothing added. The seller uses the same nickname as a user I've seen posting many times here in General. The library contains Wiersbe's homiletic commentary on both the OT and the NT (not full set on the OT) and two Bibles no longer sold by Logos, among other things such as on small groups.
EDIT: Here's a relevant review: http://www.puritanboard.com/f66/logos-resources-75327/#post959568
I was thinking of ordering two copies (the ad says there's several) and have one myself because of the Wiersbe OT volumes (I have the NT volumes). The Bibles are not a must for me but would add a couple of $ of value for me I guess. Most of the rest would be duplication. Engaging the Closed Mind I would value $1.60. The Training of the Twelve by Alexander Balmain Bruce I would value $1.90.
Additionally, A-company had a sale on UBS Translator's Handbook NT-set until Monday. I created a new account, input a random male name, gave no birth date information, and placed an order for it for the discounted price, ticking it to be manually processed - adding text as info. A-company also offers family-licenses and that could be a good option. I would like to be in control of the account. The set is ~3 times more expensive in Logos, it can be added to Logos at a discounted price in the Customize options when upgrading a base-package, but it would still be ~$75 more expensive in Logos plus there would probably be very little interest in upgrading, at least I don't recommend the future friend to upgrade to L5.
Now the thing is that I think I will get some friend who's going to discuss theology, the Bible and history with me. The additional L3 and A-company version 11 accounts would be for that future friend.
My idea would be that if the friend wants more functionality in Logos, he/she should pay for the functionality himself/herself. The purpose of the A-company account would be to save my time: so that I wouldn't have to look up passages in it to him/her, he/she would be able to autonomously look up which Bible version is the best for whatever NT passage. I feel that it's a bit tedious to spend time on selecting Bible versions when meeting the friend. It would feel better when each person could do that by himself/herself.
It looks like this: I would most probably meet the future friend only for a couple of hours or so at a time. He/she might be unwilling to spend a lot of time with the books I've possibly bought him/her when not seeing me. It's also hard to tell how interested the future friend would be in the books.
Sherry-picking books might be a better option, it's just that You don't get a lot of books that way. I did however buy the Revised English Bible (a version that I prefer for large parts of the Bible) with the new Logos account.
I still don't know what exactly the A-company family license would be, but I guess it would mean that I would share the same books that I already have, with the other user. Now, I have UBS Handbooks NT already in the A-company software, I bought it used for a really good price in the Spring 2013, but it seems like the Starter Collection would have to be paid once more, so I was thinking of waiting with that until version 11 is released, which probably takes approximately another year.
Would You advice me to go ahead and pay now so that future friend would have something to start with? (The idea that the friend will pay everything himself/herself is unlikely.)
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Comments
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bump!
There are two kinds of crazy ideas: buying the Göttingen set (used of course) -kind of ideas, and this.
How likely is it that a few books will initiate the friend to study? If he/she is not interested she is not interested even if it's for free, right?
It's not a whole lot of money, but it's sure a waste of money if I either don't get a friend (I would say that's unlikely to be so) or the friend never starts to show any interest in any of this.
Giving BOTH the extra A-company account and the extra Logos account would be realistic since these softwares and collections/packages and added books are so different, and that would give the friend a free choice.
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Unix said:
bump!
There are two kinds of crazy ideas: buying the Göttingen set -kind of ideas, and this.
How likely is it that a few books will initiate the friend to study? If he/she is not interested she is not interested even if it's for free, right?
It's not a whole lot of money, but it's sure a waste of money if I either don't get a friend (I would say that's unlikely to be so) or the friend never starts to show any interest in any of this.
Unix,
I pondered your initial post and didn't know how to respond. It's a very odd request. Are you talking about some actual person that you know already whom you think might become a friend of yours, or just a hypothetical friend that might come along?
Buying Logos products on spec for someone else who might or might not be a potential friend interested in Bible study someday seems like a strange idea. Sorry I don't have any further advice for you on this idea.
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I'm positive I will get a friend, but the problem is that I'm uncertain what kind of "skills" or knowledge these persons I'm "negotiating with about friendship" have. If they just "confess" that they are Christian with no backing for the claim just in order to become friends with me then it's going to be difficult to say the least and I will grow tired of the whole thing:
Rosie Perera said:Are you talking about some actual person that you know already whom you think might become a friend of yours, or just a hypothetical friend that might come along?
There aren't many options, are there? All base-packages contain the same basic set. Some really old L4 or old L3 base-packages are slightly smaller, better and much cheaper than the current L5 Starter, don't You agree? The price seems correctly set, it's not much lower or much higher than I would expect.
UBS Handbooks is of course more uncertain, but like I said it would save my time not having to look at what English Bible version is the best when we meet. The NT in English is the starting point and I don't want to get stuck at that level of discussion, there's so many things to discuss and/or read together. I won't get to meet the friend longer hours at a time.
To put it clearly: another advantage of both having the UBS Handbooks NT, would be to not having to be of the same opinion regarding whether a certain passage needs to be looked up in the Handbooks but that each person can do that for whatever passage and whenever making it possible to share ready NT passages with each other that have been checked - each time saving one another's time a few minutes.I have so many passages to look up from the UBS Handbooks that I simply don't have time for looking up many more additional passages - any of the passages I want to share or any passages that the friend is interested in.
Both having the Handbooks NT would also make it possible to spontaneously come up with a verse, and then each one goes home and looks it up IF NEEDED without asking the only person who has the Handbooks set:
Rosie Perera said:Buying Logos products on spec for someone else who might or might not be a potential friend interested in Bible study someday seems like a strange idea. Sorry I don't have any further advice for you on this idea.
I can't come up with more reasons than this, but would appreciate feedback on this matter! It's half past midnight over here, so I have all weekend on me to decide whether to pay for the base-package, but the sooner the better so that no-one else buys all the packages before me. Regarding A-company, the manager hasn't replied me yet regarding my UBS Handbooks order, I have been a bit unclear regarding what exactly I want and I'm still not entirely sure whether I'll get a good deal. The sale-price is locked for "me" - that's no problem, but ... we'll see what the manager says.Disclosure!
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bump!
The family licensing option didn't work. They required that everyone lives on the exact same address. The store is hard to navigate so I asked all my questions on phone and am getting the answers by email today.Advice what to do is welcome!
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Unix said:
Advice what to do is welcome!
Hi Unix,
As Rosie has already said, your query is unusual and very difficult to answer.
I understand that you have seen a 'bargain' (for want of a better word) and are considering this as you hope it might prove helpful for a future friend. I understand, therefore, that you are considering purchasing said bargain with the intention of gifting it to someone in the future. Please correct me if I have misunderstood your query.
Assuming I have understood you correctly, you may wish to consider the following points,
1. How great is the saving (i.e. is it worth your while);
2. Can you afford it;
3. How valuable/helpful do you consider the resources on offer (this is an indication as to whether a future friend, who, presumably, will share similar interests and be of a similar disposition);
4. What is the likelihood of meeting you and becoming friends with someone who may have a need for the package in question. I ask this, because, presumably, you do not, at present, have someone within your social circle for whom the package will be of interest/help. This may or may not be a helpful indication of whether the package may be of use in the future.
It is an unusual query for which I do not feel qualified to answer. The above is intended as food for thought, do not feel the need to answer here.
Ultimately, only you are able to make a decision regarding this.
Blessings,
[:D]
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I would add, consider what the cost would be to you if:
(a) you don't end up sealing the friendship with this person or persons you are negotiating with who you hope would be interested in discussing theology with you (an odd premise for friendship if you ask me; friendship normally just evolves naturally; it isn't something you negotiate about)
(b) or you do make a friend but that person thinks you are trying to manipulate him or her by having bought that Logos product in advance as a gift and refuses it
(b) you find this out after 30 days and can no longer return it
(c) you are left owning a product that you bought "on spec" (speculation) for someone who was not as yet your friend, and now have nobody to give it to
Are you willing to take that risk?
That is something only you can answer.
Many times in the past you have posted questions asking people to talk you out of some pre-pub you had ordered. So I'm wondering if perhaps this is another such situation. You are tempted to buy this product because the deal seems so good and you don't want to waste it, but you don't actually need it for yourself. You're hoping for a friend to come along that you could give it to. And you're asking for advice from us. In that case, perhaps you'd best not do it. I personally would not do what you are contemplating doing.
Hope that helps.
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Odd perhaps, but I have become careful who to be friends with. It's important to share the interest in Christianity and history because that's what's been wanting and I used to be an Atheist for a few years until 2 years ago. I was Christian when young.
I will make friends with at least one person. It's going to last at least a couple of years, hopefully more if sharing interests.
The risk consists of the friend using the resources only very little.
I have most of the resources myself already and I use them a lot. I do need the additional L3 resources myself too and would save on the postage cost if I would buy two copies of the Library DVD at the same time, both sealed and unopened:
Rosie Perera said:You are tempted to buy this product because the deal seems so good and you don't want to waste it, but you don't actually need it for yourself. You're hoping for a friend to come along that you could give it to.
A reason for purchasing all these resources as a gift is that some of these persons most probably have no real Bible study software.Disclosure!
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Unix said:
I will make friends with at least one person. It's going to last at least a couple of years, hopefully more if sharing interests.
I hope for you that you can make some lifelong friends, Unix. You sound like you are very lonely for real spiritual friendship. I pray that God will encourage you and build you up in your ability to be the kind of person who people want to be friends with, and that you will in turn find people who are worth keeping as friends for more than a couple of years.
Blessings!
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Rosie Perera said:Unix said:
I will make friends with at least one person. It's going to last at least a couple of years, hopefully more if sharing interests.
I hope for you that you can make some lifelong friends, Unix. You sound like you are very lonely for real spiritual friendship. I pray that God will encourage you and build you up in your ability to be the kind of person who people want to be friends with, and that you will in turn find people who are worth keeping as friends for more than a couple of years.
Blessings!
[Y]
I would add to what others have said Unix, that if I take into consideration some of your other posts concerning finances, I would not be concerning my self with making purchases for future friends. You can always talk to others about theology without them owning a Logos library (even though I know everyone SHOULD own a Logos library [;)]).
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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Joseph Turner said:
I would add to what others have said Unix, that if I take into consideration some of your other posts concerning finances, I would not be concerning my self with making purchases for future friends. You can always talk to others about theology without them owning a Logos library (even though I know everyone SHOULD own a Logos library
).I think Joseph has offered some good advice here Unix. I also hope that you can find more good Christian friends. Have a strong Christian community is very important in one's faith journey.
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I added a pre-order for the following, as You can see I don't want it myself I learn the same things elsewhere. $89.95, that's ¢6 a page - do You think that's cheap?: Guides to Biblical Scholarship Series (12 vols.)
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Unix said:
I added a pre-order for the following, as You can see I don't want it myself I learn the same things elsewhere. $89.95, that's ¢6 a page - do You think that's cheap?: Guides to Biblical Scholarship Series (12 vols.)
Unix, if you find a new friend that is at all interested in the Bible, and you try to get them to read the above resources, they are probably not going to be your friend anymore (I did preorder this after seeing you reference it here though). You are trying too hard. You need to meet people naturally, and accept them for who they are, even if they don't love to read guides to biblical scholarship, just as I know that you want people to accept you for who you are.
You need to meet people at church or in seminary (I think you have started, or are about to start). That way they are at least interested in the Bible at a minimum. If you start buying your new friends books so that they will talk to you about the subjects that you want to talk about then you are just going to make them run the other way. Use forums to discuss theology on other websites (not here of course). I use to go here a lot just to browse and participate once in a while (particularly Bible Chat). It is often irritating and I usually decide that participating would be like banging my head against the wall, so I just browse in amusement, but there are some real thinkers there, and they are all good, well-meaning Christians.
DON'T TRY SO HARD.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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Well if I ask a friend and he/she says they don't want to read it, if it's after the set has been paid, I'm going to first find a printer at college where I can print some pages from it for free (accessing the books with a web-browser), and then sell the whole extra Logos-account to someone else. I know for example this guy at a small Church I've been attending somewhat regularly, who preaches a bit, who uses PC Study Bible and wants to make the switch to Logos at some point when he affords to:
Joseph Turner said:Unix, if you find a new friend that is at all interested in the Bible, and you try to get them to read the above resources, they are probably not going to be your friend anymore.
There are some who will talk about Theology and such to me, it's just a question about how much they know since before and I have means of finding the most knowledgeable among them. They are all already set on discussing Theology. Like I've said the problem is that it's too easy to find people who know too little:Joseph Turner said:Unix, if you find a new friend that is at all interested in the Bible, and you try to get them to read the above resources, they are probably not going to be your friend anymore [...] You are trying too hard. [...] If you start buying your new friends books so that they will talk to you about the subjects that you want to talk about then you are just going to make them run the other way.
Logos has other resources on the same topics, don't You already have books on this? You don't need different views on this kind of topics!:Joseph Turner said:(I did preorder this after seeing you reference it here though).
It's a bit tiresome as all the reasonable Churches are far away (I live 12 miles from the City centre). The closest Churches are a liberal Lutheran, and a Pentecostal Church - I've never been to them. Usually the only people I can meet at Church are slightly too young. I've also noticed that usually people in Churches use different Bible Study softwares than me (the ones I've talked to so far typically use E-Sword or PC Study Bible), but no I don't ask new people that question anymore, but occasionally they are willing to change to Logos. I haven't talked to anyone about Accordance yet:Joseph Turner said:You need to meet people at church
Regarding the extra Accordance account, if no friend wants it it's going to be harder to get rid of it. But the same resource to Logos is twice as expensive when considering all short-term costs (Accordance costs more to maintain).
Well, if I give both softwares, don't I give sort of a free choice?:Rosie Perera said:(b) or you do make a friend but that person thinks you are trying to manipulate him or her by having bought that Logos product in advance as a gift and refuses it
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I'm missing several of the resources you mentioned. I wouldn't mind being your friend so I'll make sure your money is well invested by using the licenses to the resources you want to purchase [8-|]
Now on a serious note, it's good to know you are choosy with who you're friends with, but just remember that Jesus was the friend of sinners, so we shouldn't focus on having "spiritual friends only" (which is great to cultivate fellowship -- and we should have friends at church among the members if we don't then there's something wrong), but remember that we must be friends to the lost too so we can lead them to Christ (always being careful not to let them lead US away from Christ).
But anyway, you are commended for thinking about a future great gift, but you could always wait so you'll make sure you're money (and the Lord's money) won't be wasted.
Blessings!
DAL
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Unix I pray and hope you find a friend soon.
Have you thought about forming a theology discussion group in your area where like minded theological people can come together and discuss theology.
From my own perspective Unix, when people have divergent viewpoints this makes for a healthy discussion and friendships. On Sunday at our church I utilised Brueggermann's concept of Orientation, Disorientation and New Orientation.
Listening to your posts on these forums it appears that you long for Orientation in your life.
By this I mean a world that is coherent, organised, symmetrical, predictable and everyone agrees with each other.
Brueggermann explains;
It is a curious fact that the church has, by and large, continued to sing songs of orientation in a world increasingly experienced as disoriented. . [for the church ignoring these psalms and focussing on the psalms of orientation is a][1] frightened, numb denial and deception that does not want to acknowledge or experience the disorientation of life. The reason for such relentless affirmation of orientation seems to come, not from faith, but from the wishful optimism of our culture. Such a denial and cover-up, which I take it to be, is an odd inclination for passionate Bible users, given the large number of psalms that are songs of lament, protest, and complaint about the incoherence that is experienced in the world. At least it is clear that a church that goes on singing “happy songs” in the face of raw reality is doing something very different from what the Bible itself does.[2]
My advice Unix is to let go of your 'ideals' and embrace a new orientation
[1] My own summary of a longer section of text
[2] Walter Brueggemann, The Message of the Psalms: A Theological Commentary (Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1984), 51–52.
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I know You're joking, but that would have been great, except that You don't live close. And this shows a problem: I don't know what should be done if someone already has Logos:
DAL said:I wouldn't mind being your friend so I'll make sure your money is well invested by using the licenses to the resources you want to purchase
I just realized late in the evening that college will be over so soon (it's shorter over here than in the U.S.) that it'd be in university in the Spring semester 2014 and I'm unsure whether there's free printing in the uni:Unix said:find a printer at college where I can print some pages from it for free (accessing the books with a web-browser),
I had enough of that for a while, two years ago:
DAL said:just remember that Jesus was the friend of sinners, [...] remember that we must be friends to the lost too so we can lead them to Christ (always being careful not to let them lead US away from Christ).
The most flexible part, which I'm also the most sure about since it's pretty cost effective, is the small L3 Library so I'm thinking of filling up my Paypal account today (it's a bit slow process for me to purchase something with Paypal). But if more people warn me today and tomorrow, I could still tomorrow Tuesday and probably Wednesday regret and not transfer the money to the seller for two copies. The copy for a friend can be activated on anyone's account without a license transfer fee and the other copy would be for myself but I'm not in a hurry to activate it:
DAL said:you could always wait so you'll make sure you're money (and the Lord's money) won't be wasted.
Maybe You are right in Your analysis, Kelvin! What I long for is a friend who has a somewhat broader interest than the average Christian, i.e. interested in history and "Gnosticism" too. I don't require the friend to know more than me, so I don't expect that he/she has a viewpoint yet on all things, an if we form different opinions that's OK, I find it interesting to see what books make people get certain ideas and opinions and how quickly. It'd be interesting to see how each one's faith is shaped. Some beliefs that I have won't change, such as that I believe there is Purgatory in Afterlife, and Anabaptism will probably be the denomination closest to my heart and mind, and I won't start practicing glossolalia. Much will change and I look forward to that.
I hope I will be able to change the friends views a little bit, not by being persuasive but when the friend for example looks at the Bible only and focuses too much on it as a whole and starts to talk about books such as Ecclesiastes (an SDA friend of mine based his Afterlife beliefs on that book) and Hebrews 9:15-13:25 (I'm not going to nag), or when he/she doesn't firmly believe in the Trinity or in that Jesus was Resurrected:Kelvin Niblett said:From my own perspective Unix, when people have divergent viewpoints this makes for a healthy discussion and friendships. On Sunday at our church I utilised Brueggermann's concept of Orientation, Disorientation and New Orientation.
Listening to your posts on these forums it appears that you long for Orientation in your life.
By this I mean a world that is coherent, organised, symmetrical, predictable and everyone agrees with each other.
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I am just curious. Is it the common way to make friends in Sweden, to "negotiate" on the possible terms of friendship? This is a fascinating statement.
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Kendall Sholtess said:
I am just curious. Is it the common way to make friends in Sweden, to "negotiate" on the possible terms of friendship? This is a fascinating statement.
I don't have any exact information about this, but I have seen multiple comments going back at least a hundred years from Europeans who marvel at how easily we Americans make "friends" and how MANY "friends" we have - and this was way before Facebook...
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Kendall Sholtess said:
Is it the common way to make friends in Sweden, to "negotiate" on the possible terms of friendship?
No, it's not. I've never really heard of it before. In fact, most of what Unix writes makes me wonder if we're truly living in the same country. (Don't know if his being originally Finnish has something to do with it.)
Unfortunately, I suspect that his attempts to what you call "negotiate" will more likely drive people away, as will his attempts to give people resources. It's a nice thought, but in my experience nothing kills friendship as fast as non-reciprocal gifts, especially if they're expensive. It makes people feel bought, and no one wants to feel bought.
(I think Americans are probably less sensitive to that part of it. You find it natural that your parents support you through college, or that friends and family, or even strangers, help you with a huge medical bill. When I was at university, most of us would have died of shame taking more than $30 or so from our parents. Once you're over 18 and out of high school, you support yourself, period. If you take money from other people after that, your self-esteem suffers.)
Ken is right, though, in that we probably often use 'acquaintance', 'work-mate', or the like, when you'd use 'friend'. And even when we do use 'friend' in a sloppier kind of way, we wouldn't necessarily equate that with friendship, which we tend to see as something deeper.
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Interesting. Thanks for the input there, fgh! It's true that Americans make "friends" very easily. Though long term friendships are possible in American culture, my wife has observed that though we appear warm on the outside, there is a certain coldness once you get to know us. Probably the opposite of Swedes. Yes, business must go on, so put on a smiley face and say Howdy.
I think a hundred years ago most people used to live quite far from each other. They might take a weekly, bi-weekly or monthly trip into town. It would help to be as friendly as you can whilst in town, however, it doesn't lend itself to close relationships.
I would like to think my American veneer has improved a bit since I came here. Now I grimace more at my neighbors, and have more close friends. [:P]
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I'm psychically ill: I have a little bit of epilepsy. In fact the doctors haven't known that about me for very much longer than I've been a Christian the second time (I was also Christian as a child and young adult, but atheist until about 2¾ years ago). I'm actually very well though thanks to modern medication. I've been described as healthy and balanced some time ago already. When not having more friends at this stage of life and being psychically ill, yes it is normal here in Sweden. I applied via the municipality, and thanks to a Swedish law the municipality granted me that they pay a symbolic salary to one person whom I can spend a bit of time with, that will function as a friend. It's not an assistant. The said I could even appoint any person I want to whom I know, but I don't know enough people. The salary doesn't cover expenses ...
And I can have wishes what kind of person it should be. I have listed the wishes in this thread. The municipality uses a firm, which I chose among a few firms, and that firm has to find me such a person, and I get to talk to them before I decide who I want as a friend. They may even have to advertise in order to find a suitable person if I have specific requirements. In the description about the firm it specifically says that they respect the religions of the person who has been granted this, so I'm hopeful and like I said they are going to advertise if needed.
... Back to that about the salary: The friend has to pay expenses from own pocket, so that's why it's extra difficult to get the friend to read the same books. Plus I probably only get to meet the friend only two hours at a time, so that's why I was thinking of time-saving procedures (A-company). It's probable that the friend wants to read books I have told to read when we are not seeing:Kendall Sholtess said:I am just curious. Is it the common way to make friends in Sweden, to "negotiate" on the possible terms of friendship?
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Unix said:
I applied via the municipality, and thanks to a Swedish law the municipality granted me that they pay a symbolic salary to one person whom I can spend a bit of time with, that will function as a friend.
Now I understand. I hope you find a suitable friend soon.
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Thanks for shedding some light, Unix.
I am curious about other cultures, and it seems I am always asking questions about them. I haven't been able to crack the Scandinavian cultures, though Asian cultures actually present less of a problem for me. Strange, since I am a Westerner, our cultures should be more similar.
I wish I could help you with your dilemma. I somehow cannot get my mind around exactly what it is you are asking. I'm sorry about that.
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A total of ~220 books. Cost:
In Logos: Lexham English Bible $0
L5 Core Datasets $80 (I just realized it would be better to get Core Datasets before activating the L3 base-package.)
L3 Bible Study Library $70 (Most of the books would come from this.)
In Logos: Guides to Biblical Scholarship Series $90
In Logos: Revised English Bible $25 (Have an open pre-pub order for it and the money for it as Store Credit.)
In Logos: 1992 Good News Translation 2nd Edition $10
In Logos: Faithlife Study Bible & ESV $0 (Would change Bible to the 1995 New American Standard Updated or NRSV.)
A-company Starter Collection $35 with family license discount.
In A-company software: UBS Translator's Handbooks NT $105 with family license discount.
_____________________________________Total sum: ~$415. Average cost ~$1.9 a book.
Things such as Interlinears from L4 Minimal Crossgrade would be missing:
Kendall Sholtess said:I somehow cannot get my mind around exactly what it is you are asking.
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bump! There's still time to advice me! (As I've sent a question to the L3 base-package seller (whether he still has two copies left, he had when I asked him last week) 33 hours ago and have not yet received an answer, and I've also sent a question to Logos support about the necessity of L4 Minimal Crossgrade and am going to ask further tomorrow what would be missing if not getting that.)
I realize this thread has already been read ~900 times so I suppose many have tried to think but not been able to post any advice, but I really need advice as these are very big decisions - I could get other, expensive books for myself instead. (I'm not going to bump this thread many more times.)
I would especially need advice about the A-company books: it's very similar to Logos, the differences are that they offer different books, have a more limited store, and that I really would have to pay for the software whereas with Logos it's sort of voluntary.
Also advice about Guides to Biblical Scholarship Series is welcome, You may post the advice in this thread as long as it's still in pre-pub!
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For all the reasons already expressed, I think it is a bad idea. Didn't you say once before that you drive? Don't you go to the library to use the internet? I'm not sure of the nature of help the "friend" is giving you, but it just seems like a recipe for you getting attached to someone that is not there for the same reasons that you want them there.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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The closest library is a few hundred meters, less than ¼ mile from my home and Wifi can be used outside it too - it has very bad opening hours so yes I'm often elsewhere using internet:
Joseph Turner said:Didn't you say once before that you drive? Don't you go to the library to use the internet?
Well but they actually have to agree on my terms if I insist. The only condition that he/she can have upon me is that we sometimes engage in activities and discussions other than Theology and the Bible altogether, for example jog (one suggested tennis, there is a tennis hall ½ mile from my home but she found another job, 70% of full time and never started as a friend to me - which was good because I'm hoping for someone much better who is better at reading English and more genuinely interested in Christianity and History (she was Christian, Bulgarian-Orthodox, I have a lot of disagreements with those)):Joseph Turner said:I'm not sure of the nature of help the "friend" is giving you, but it just seems like a recipe for you getting attached to someone that is not there for the same reasons that you want them there.
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I guess I just don't understand why the government is paying someone to talk to you about subjects that you want to talk about, while you otherwise seem physically capable of doing things for yourself. I'm certainly not trying to get too personal, but you have been pretty forthcoming in this thread and in the past. I would understand if you needed a nurse, but what you are describing does not sound anything like a nurse. I guess I just don't understand the nature of the relationship or requirements of the "friend."
This is way outside of the scope of the Logos forums. I am perplexed but strangely intrigued by the situation.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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(The municipality is paying, not the government, and I've been paying really high municipality taxes among other taxes such as VAT which goes to the government):
Joseph Turner said:I just don't understand why the government is paying someone to talk to you about subjects that you want to talk about,
What the friend requires (nothing but he/she is going to be VERY unwilling to cover expenses from own pocket)? Or what I require from the friend? The answer to the latter is that I hope that the firm is willing to look for as long as it takes to find someone who is somewhat knowledgeable in Christianity and also interested in, but not necessarily knowledgeable in, History (I'm interested in History related to Christianity and the Ancient History of Europe maximally up to AD 1000).Like I've said, the salary that the friend gets is NOT for expenses. ANY expenses the friend either has to cover from his his/her own pocket, or I have to pay, the latter is the more likely scenario for any expensive things such as books:
Joseph Turner said:I guess I just don't understand the nature of the relationship or requirements of the "friend".
This is way outside of the scope of the Logos forums. I am perplexed but strangely intrigued by the situation.
You said 3 days ago in this thread ...:
... and I don't know whether that's gonna be especially easy. I will have to of course to a large extent, since the friend will have very few of the same books that I have considering that I have ~1,250 books (including both softwares and as printed matter) within Christianity and about 3 books about the Ancient History of Europe.Joseph Turner said:I would not be concerning my self with making purchases for future friends. You can always talk to others about theology without them owning a Logos library
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So what you are saying is that you don't need this person to help you because of your epilepsy; you just want someone that is able to have conversations with you about the things that you are interested in. You feel like this is okay because you pay taxes, and that is where the municipality is getting the money to pay the person?
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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That's correct. Exactly what I mean:
Joseph Turner said:So what you are saying is that you don't need this person to help you because of your epilepsy you just want someone that is able to have conversations with you about the things that you are interested in. You feel like this is okay because you pay taxes, and that is where the municipality is getting the money to pay the person?
I have tried to find friends in other ways for some time. I do have a friend - who can talk very little about Christianity and nothing about History, is Christian, but just knows too little and doesn't have the kind of interest and English skills needed. When I applied the municipality required that I have very few friends and that the friend I have don't meet all my conversation and activity needs.The other activities will also be good so that it is not only about Christianity and History and perhaps that's what makes it more natural, the municipality and the firm required that, the welfare officer/almoner (I don't know by which title it's called in the U.S., I think it's the latter but it's not a regular hospital, it's just an office for those who are psychically ill) also forewarned me about that in the first place and was able to confirm that I need a friend and that getting to discuss Christianity would do good to me.
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I feel your frustration Unix. I pray that God would bring a good Christian friend into your life that would meet this need.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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I think I understand now Unix. Instead of making a new purchase, why don't you export .pdf excerpts of the legal size limit, like shorter articles and such from various resources, and let him or her read those instead. That way, at each meeting, you could discuss just the excerpt, the person would not have to read whole volumes or be overwhelmed by your giving them a library, and you wouldn't be out any money.
Also, what if you go through the seminary to find your friend? That way, you could find someone that you know is going to be interested in theology, they would probably be more open to helping you in your needs, and you would be helping them out by the supplement that they receive from the municipality.
I hope that you find someone soon with whom you are compatible and God's will is done in your life!
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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I also join my prayers with others that you find a good Christian friend. I don't know the situation in Sweden, but you might want to check in your local directory and search for faith based / religious organizations (lay or mixed) that you can join depending on your affiliation. This way, you get involved in the life of the church, whether in spiritual formation or social work, etc... while meeting new people and making friends.
There are some organizations like Opus Dei, for example, that are abundant with holy and educated individuals who might be more than willing to discuss matters of faith and even offer spiritual direction.
All the best [:)]
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Unix I am assuming that when you get this friend you would like to discuss matters of faith, theology and Christian history.
I hard-cover book I have in my personal library is:
The Portable Seminary: a masters level overview in one volume.
It's not available in logos, but give a great overview of most topics, which would be a great conversational if your were to study a chapter and then discuss that chapter with your friend.
You and your friend could then research other books that speak into that topic.
Discussions may be I disagree with the authors opinion of X, when I looked at one of my Logos books it said....
The author did not cover the topic well at all, he should have addressed XYZ.
This will help you and your friend interact critically with biblical; literature whilst not conforming to a singular text.
This will save you having to find a place with internet and power for your friend meetings as you can take along a paper book and your notes from your weeks reading and studies.
Some of the contributors to this book are;
James DG Dunn
Walter A Elwell
Norman L Geisler
Arthur F Glasser
Carl F H Henry
Alister E McGrath
A Scott Moreau
Leon L Morris
Bruce L Shelly
John R W Stott
Robert W Yardbrough
Ravi Zacharias
(This is not an exhaustive list as their are 63 contributors)
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May I call that innovative, Joseph! I'm a little bit unsure about how much is legal to hand out (it's off topic so I should find out by myself) and I don't know whether I'm that good at predicting what is a good read. I usually read through large scopes first, then later reference what I've read, run searches, or read again to take more notes and do more highlightings - especially if I read it on the Nook the first time. It happens that I do a lot of highlightings the first time I read, if I make myself remember to I can although not when it comes to every book. I often need to put that much effort into a book and by that time I want to move forward to the next topic or book. It would almost feel easier if I would first summarize what I've read during a few days, give that summary to the friend and let him/her decide if he/she wants to read about that - and if he/she wants to copy text for the next time by send the pdf by email. Also, I've never created PDF:s, how much does it cost to do it on my computer (Windows 7 64-bit)?:
Joseph Turner said:don't you export .pdf excerpts of the legal size limit, like shorter articles and such from various resources, and let him or her read those instead. That way, at each meeting, you could discuss just the excerpt, the person would not have to read whole volumes or be overwhelmed by your giving them a library, and you wouldn't be out any money.
Yes any such area on which the friend is able to talk:Kelvin Niblett said:Unix I am assuming that when you get this friend you would like to discuss matters of faith, theology and Christian history.
Have heard of that book but didn't save any information about it. Would not have occurred to me that buying more printed matter would solve some of this, so I'm grateful for the hint!I've heard of almost all those authors. Don't know whether I would agree with them, but having a bit of controversial opinions presented or other friction created by my opinion of some of those authors could spur some discussion:
Kelvin Niblett said:I hard-cover book I have in my personal library is:
The Portable Seminary: a masters level overview in one volume.
[...] a great overview of most topics, which would be a great conversational if your were to study a chapter and then discuss that chapter with your friend.
You and your friend could then research other books that speak into that topic.
Discussions may be I disagree with the authors opinion of X, when I looked at one of my Logos books it said....
The author did not cover the topic well at all, he should have addressed XYZ.
This will help you and your friend interact critically with biblical; literature whilst not conforming to a singular text.
This will save you having to find a place with internet and power for your friend meetings as you can take along a paper book and your notes from your weeks reading and studies.
Some of the contributors to this book are;
[...]
(This is not an exhaustive list as their are 63 contributors)Disclosure!
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Yeah, now that I think about it, I have Adobe Acrobat Pro, which installs a print driver to print straight to pdf, which is what I use to save files from Logos if necessary. That may be a problem. You could just save them to MS Word though, and it would basically be the same.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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Great idea.
Regarding the activities of Opus Dei over here, it seems to consist mainly of retreats and I won't afford to go as those are at some distance (actually I was to that county today on a one-day leisure trip). My apartment rent (good contract though) and Logos books cost a lot.
They also have a quiet study centre in the city, about 11 miles from where I live but it would probably be a bit hard to get acquainted with people there as I don't know at what time of the day and week I should go. Perhaps I could go and eat there with them though:
Sleiman said:There are some organizations like Opus Dei, for example, that are abundant with holy and educated individuals who might be more than willing to discuss matters of faith and even offer spiritual direction.
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Where do you live again UNIX? There may be a group of theological minded people somewhere nearby
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Kelvin, 12 miles north of the capital of Sweden: Stockholm. This is the most atheistic city in the world. Christianity is in minority. It feels like there's a lot of other religions in the places where I go. In the college I mainly go to this semester the prevailing religions seem to be Islam and Atheism. Another religion prevailing among people in general seems to be religions made up in peoples head individually (I don't know what that phenomenon is called) influenced by Buddhism.
In the other college (this semester also) I don't know I'll see but there is a chance there's more natives.
It has been said that Sweden was the most Roman-Catholic country of the world during the "dark ages". You can see that in that there's a lot of Church buildings still left from those days.
Below follows some information about Sweden from Encyclopedia of Christianity. Text in square brackets [] inserted by me:
Population (1,000s): 1980: 8,310, 2000: 8,898 Annual growth rate (%): 1980: 0.10, 2000: 0.20 Area: 449,964 sq. km. (173,732 sq. mi.)
A.D. 2000 Population density: 20/sq. km. (51/sq. mi.). Births / deaths: 1.17 / 1.08 per 100 population. Fertility rate: 1.87 per woman. Infant mortality rate: 5 per 1,000 live births. Life expectancy: 79.4 years (m: 77.1, f: 81.6). Religious affiliation (%): Christians 68.0 (Protestants 93.3, Roman Catholics 2.0, Orthodox 1.6, other Christians 1.9), nonreligious 17.8, atheists 11.8, Muslims 2.1, other 0.3.
Fahlbusch, E., & Bromiley, G. W. (2008).The encyclopedia of Christianity. Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans. (entry: Sweden)
In the early 16th century there was a political union between the Nordic countries, but strife led to wars in which bishops became warlords, which in turn led to a movement to cut ties to Rome and the powerful bishops that had been placed in Sweden. This political reality contributed to a climate that enabled the Lutheran → Reformation to be quickly accepted. Another such reality was the influence of many Germans in the port cities, who were the first to welcome the ideas from Wittenberg. The liberation leader Gustav Vasa (1496?–1560) became king in 1523, winning independence from Rome. As king, he gave full support to the first religious reformers, the brothers Olaus Petri (1493–1552), who had studied at Lutheran Wittenberg, and Laurentius Petri (1499–1573).
[...]
4.4.
A new influx of refugees to Sweden began arriving in 1970. By 2000, their numbers had reached one million, presenting a major challenge to Sweden as a homogeneous welfare state. Sweden first welcomed political refugees from dictatorial regimes, such as those in Greece, Chile, South Africa, and the Communist countries. The next wave came from Muslim and mainly Middle East countries. Several Oriental and Eastern Orthodox churches were established, as well as large Muslim communities; mosques now mark urban landscapes (→ Islam).
The largest and most visible Christian community of immigrants is the → Syrian Orthodox Church in Södertälje [at some distance at the other side of the city], which numbers 28,000 members and has its own bishop. The Greek Orthodox Church has around 17,500 adherents. In recent years the Serbian (23,000 members), Russian, and Romanian Orthodox churches have increased their membership. Smaller churches of Coptic, Armenian, and Ethiopian Orthodox serve their members in the largest cities, in many cases conducting church services in buildings offered by the Church of Sweden (→ Orthodox Church; Oriental Orthodox Churches).
[...]
By 2006 around 40 percent of all clergy in the Church of Sweden were women.
[...]
6.4.
The Church of Sweden was very much involved in the formation of the → Porvoo Common Statement (1992), an ecumenical agreement that has been signed by most evangelical Lutheran churches of the Baltic and Nordic regions, as well as by the Anglican churches in Europe. It stresses the role of episcopacy in the church, as well as the apostolic succession of clergy, and declares that a pastor in one church is recognized for service in another. In 2003 the Church of Sweden also signed an agreement with the Evangelical Church of Germany.
[...]
Since its separation from the state almost 1 percent of [the] members of [the Church of Sweden] leave the church each year.
[...]
Around 100,000 babies are born in Sweden annually, 70,000 of whom are baptized in the Church of Sweden. Each year 22,000 weddings, 50 percent of all marriages in the country, take place in churches. In 2006 the confirmation of young persons was down to 36 percent, or 46,000. Of all who died in 2006, approximately 83 percent, or 77,000, were buried according to the rites of the Church of Sweden.
Fahlbusch, E., & Bromiley, G. W. (2008).The encyclopedia of Christianity. Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans. (entry: Sweden):
Kelvin Niblett said:Where do you live again UNIX?
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Just read this: "Logos 5 Core Datasets is designed only for users who are coming from a Logos 4 base package. If you have never owned a Logos 4 base package, you will need to also purchase the Logos 4 Minimal Crossgrade."
Revision to...:
... leave out Core Datasets!Unix said:Cost:
In Logos: Lexham English Bible $0
L5 Core Datasets $80
L3 Bible Study Library $70 (Most of the books would come from this.)
In Logos: Guides to Biblical Scholarship Series $90
In Logos: Revised English Bible $25 (Have an open pre-pub order for it and the money for it as Store Credit.)
In Logos: 1992 Good News Translation 2nd Edition $10
In Logos: Faithlife Study Bible & ESV $0 (Would change Bible to the 1995 New American Standard Updated or NRSV.)
____________________________________Total Logos cost: ~$195
(Compare to: L5 Starter base-package $220.7 (with 15% discount first, and I get $30 credit on my account for referral) + Guides to Biblical Scholarship Series $90 + Wiersbe ~>=$70 + Revised English Bible $25 = a total of at least $405.7.)Disclosure!
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bump!
I've used to be thinking that it's OK by me to be leaving out the L4 and L5 functionality and have the friend pay for such functionality if he/she wants. Am I correct in this assesment?Disclosure!
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A lot of functionality comes with the A-company software included when buying the Starter Collection to the friend. I don't know what all things need to be added to it to make it work but it may prove cheaper than adding Minimal Crossgrades or new base-packages to the friend's Logos account. (I have added the Syntax module at a sale to my A-company account, when I buy a Greek New Testament in the future (NA29 or NA30) that combination starts working.)
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I just got home from going to Burger King with a few people after Church and it's midnight. I haven't filled up my Paypal account yet - and if I'm making the transfer the money isn't arriving this week to the seller of the L3 Bible Study Library.
So PLEASE advice me!
If I don't buy I would have to spend time creating Word documents with excerpts and summaries from my books - that would be time consuming, and I would be missing out on the Wiersbe homiletic OT commentary volumes myself too.
If I buy I can give at least something to initiate discussions. It would feel like such a kind thing to do, the only real problem being that many of the books are so basic that I don't want to discuss them/those topics. I would most probably find someone to whom to give the Logos account.
The A-company software account would be high-quality, the problem being that many people don't have the patience to look at one verse at a time/don't find it so interesting. But the reason why I'm stressing the UBS Handbook is that the New Testament is the core writing so it should be studied in great detail - WHEN being unsure each person could consult their copy of the UBS Handbook to prepare - to be able to talk, or just to solve problems. Like I explained earlier in this thread, we wouldn't be talking about the UBS Handbook findings though.
Tomorrow I'm talking to one man that the firm could hire to me to be friend. He initially said on the phone that he has some knowledge in religion(s?) but I'll find out just what type of and quantity of knowledge he has when it comes to Christianity. Judging by the voice he's a lot older than me btw.
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You know, those that arnt interested enough to buy their own books, usually dont read what is given to them.
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Normally yes, but these are a bit special circumstances. I can steer quite freely what to discuss as long as the friend has a bit of knowledge since before:
Evan Boardman said:You know, those that arnt interested enough to buy their own books, usually dont read what is given to them.
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Unix, I have been reading your posts for some time and really feel for you and your situation. Since you really want an opinion I will hesitantly give you mine. I would not purchase books for a future friend. Instead I would pray and ask God to meet all my needs and trust Him to guide me in the future. May God give you the wisdom you need in the days ahead.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce, I wish there would be options! Even the forthcoming denominational base-packages may not prove to be much to have. And L5 base-packages such as Starter are not better but worse than L3 other than that the L5 Starter contains more datasets - but if focusing mainly on just reading through the friend won't need all that many datasets.
Printed matter would be more expensive because of postage costs. I'm considering the book suggested in this thread, it's just that I think Dunn is not good at Church history. I'll order that book if the friend has a bit of knowledge to be able to read it.
Right now I have to get some sleep, it's Church again in the morning.
(Anyone else, who hasn't posted yet in this thread,) wanting to express an opinion?
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Bruce Dunning said:
Unix, I have been reading your posts for some time and really feel for you and your situation. Since you really want an opinion I will hesitantly give you mine. I would not purchase books for a future friend. Instead I would pray and ask God to meet all my needs and trust Him to guide me in the future. May God give you the wisdom you need in the days ahead.
[Y]
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Unix, I would agree with the others who have advised you not to do this. I think you would end up regretting it. I know it is hard to pass up a good deal, but maybe this deal is for someone else.
Don't use Logos books as a crutch for conversation. Don't even waste your time exporting sections of your Logos books to print for your friend to read to discuss. I think you will learn better how to be a friend (which is a prerequisite in making good friends), if you just speak naturally about what is on your heart. If you have been reading something interesting, and you want to share it with your friend, or get his or her opinion about it, you can simply summarize the ideas and say "What do you think?" And then listen to their ideas and let them have their own mind on it. You don't need to convince them to see things exactly your way. That is part of the give and take of what true friendship is.
You sound like you haven't had much experience with friendship, and I feel really sad for you. You also mentioned that you are "psychically ill" (by which I understand what we would call mental or psychological illness), which probably makes forming natural friendships very difficult. And the lack of friendship must in turn contribute to the illness. Such a torment.
I pray that God would bring you friendship, stability, hope, joy, clarity of thought, normalcy, and a deeper faith in Him and compassion for other people through what you have had to endure. May He be all sufficient for you, and yet I know he knows how we are fearfully and wonderfully made, and that we need human companionship, in person, fellow pilgrims on the journey.
Blessings to you.
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