BDAG/BAGD confusion

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Dec 17 2009 3:38 PM

Why does everyone call the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature BDAG (Bauer, Danker, Arndt & Gingrich) but its abbreviated title in Logos is BAGD (Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich & Danker)? I know I can change the abbreviation to whatever I want, but I'm just wondering if this is metadata that should be fixed, or are there two legitimately used shortcuts for this resource? Which one is "preferred"? (Acronymfinder.com lists both.) I seem to recall something about the acronym for this changing when a new edition came out. The edition listed on Amazon.com is called BDAG (on the front cover); it's the 3rd edition. It's not clear whether this is the edition included in my Logos library. The cover image in my library looks like the older edition (I wish I could zoom to see a larger version of the icon to make out the text on it; I'll submit that as a suggestion). Was the older edition called BAGD? Do I not have the latest version that Logos ships? (The current Logos edition listed on their website is very clearly the 3rd edition with the newer cover art.) Is it free for me to upgrade to the newer version? If so, why hasn't this happened automatically when I sync resources? This is what I've got now:

Incidentally, the authors are listed in my Logos library in the order: Arndt, Gingrich, Danker, and Bauer, which isn't either BAGD or BDAG, and it isn't even alphabetical, so where did that come from?

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 3:42 PM

Rosie Perera:
Why does everyone call the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature BDAG (Bauer, Danker, Arndt & Gingrich) but its abbreviated title in Logos is BAGD

BAGD (copyright 1979) is the predecessor to BDAG (copyright 2000). They are much the same but BDAG is a revised and completely reformatted work, making it easier to use for Greek students (and Logos users!).

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 3:43 PM

Rosie,

Because the new edition IS called BDAG Big Smile

 

Edited to add...."man! Richard beat me to it!"

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 3:51 PM

This resourse dates way back to the beginning on Logos 2.0 in 1995 and was included on their level 4 package. When the 3rd edition came out around 9 years ago the publisher asked Logos to only sell the newest edition. What you have is important and not available anymore for sale in Logos, BDAG is improved, especially with Dankers extended definitions, but it did change the way some words were given definitions, and not all scholars were thrilled with Dankers changes. So its good to have both editions to use compare words sometimes. BDAG is now the "Standard" lexicon for serious work in Greek. FWIW I still find value in seeing the changes in definitions between the two editions.

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 4:01 PM

So, to clarify further, the new Logos resource is a completely new resource, not an upgrade from the older edition? If I bought it (not likely; it's so pricey and not very different from what I've got already), it wouldn't replace what I've already got, but I'd have both?

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 4:10 PM

Rosie Perera:
it wouldn't replace what I've already got, but I'd have both?

Correct.

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Bridgeport, CT USA

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Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 4:13 PM

Well, I would have to say it's worth the investment, since Logos put a tremendous amount of tagging and linking into it. Logos stopped any improvements to the 2nd edition in 2000 and as you know so many books have been added to Logos and that gave the links a destination to go to. The definitions are extended and that make them more understandable than the very abreviated definitions in the 2nd edition. unfortunately BDAG is not one of the titles that the publisher lets go for a modest price.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 4:17 PM

Nobody mentioned it, but the "D" moved up, I understand to underscore Danker's extra input in this edition.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 4:51 PM

I have both, thanks to my L4 upgrade and that I got the original way back in 2.1 days.  Also thankful that i don't have to keep my old 2.1 disk around to install it . . . it's all downloadable now!  yipee!

 

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 5:11 PM

BobbyTerhune:

Well, I would have to say it's worth the investment, since Logos put a tremendous amount of tagging and linking into it. Logos stopped any improvements to the 2nd edition in 2000 and as you know so many books have been added to Logos and that gave the links a destination to go to. The definitions are extended and that make them more understandable than the very abreviated definitions in the 2nd edition. unfortunately BDAG is not one of the titles that the publisher lets go for a modest price.

Thanks, Bobby, for explaining the differences to me. I'll add this one to my wishlist too, and maybe (praying!!) it will show up on one of the last few days of "12 Days of Logos." It's just too expensive to justify buying otherwise. :-(

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 5:31 PM

I'd love to have BAGD in Logos. Lots of books reference it (esp the SIL Summaries) and I'd love to be able to compare the tweaks done between the two.

Sigh, I only got on the Logos train in 2002, so I never had the chance. I'll probably have to pick up a used print copy sometime.

EDIT: BTW Rosie, BDAG is in Platinum. I don't know what your base package is, but it might make more sense to get it that way.

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 6:06 PM

Kevin Becker:

I'd love to have BAGD in Logos. Lots of books reference it (esp the SIL Summaries) and I'd love to be able to compare the tweaks done between the two.

Sigh, I only got on the Logos train in 2002, so I never had the chance. I'll probably have to pick up a used print copy sometime.

EDIT: BTW Rosie, BDAG is in Platinum. I don't know what your base package is, but it might make more sense to get it that way.

Yeah, I've discovered that. As we speak I've been doing the math to figure out if I want to spring for Platinum...or...gasp!...even Portfolio. I'm finding that many of the books I've bought in the past two years, which they say I don't have when they compute my upgrade price, are in it. So it might bring the price down to reachable for me if they take those into account. Also, there are a number of resources in it that have been on my wishlist which if I add them all up would be more than what it would cost for me to upgrade. Still it's pretty steep. Has anyone else had experience with upgrading and know if they really do take into account other products you've bought even if they don't show up in the upgrade chart? I know there was a thread discussing that a while back, but I'm not sure what the conclusion was.

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John Nerdue | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 6:11 PM

I have BAG and BAGD both in book form and I bought BDAG in LOGOS form. I like the ability to compare the older ones.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 6:14 PM

Rosie Perera:
Has anyone else had experience with upgrading and know if they really do take into account other products you've bought even if they don't show up in the upgrade chart? I know there was a thread discussing that a while back, but I'm not sure what the conclusion was.

I believe the conclusion was that all your purchases were considered in establishing your upgrade cost, even though all are not shown in the chart. However, I would recommend that you call sales for the best possible deal.

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Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 7:26 PM

Rosie,

I was able to point out some resources that I had purchased that the upgrade calculator missed and they did adjust the upgrade price for me, Logos has always treated me more than fair. I think we have to be careful though because Logos doesn't give full dollar credit for past purchases, and they are not telling us the formula for how they figure it all out, but I can tell you I was pleased with how they responded.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 7:44 PM

BobbyTerhune:

Rosie,

I was able to point out some resources that I had purchased that the upgrade calculator missed and they did adjust the upgrade price for me, Logos has always treated me more than fair. I think we have to be careful though because Logos doesn't give full dollar credit for past purchases, and they are not telling us the formula for how they figure it all out, but I can tell you I was pleased with how they responded.

 

That's interesting Bobby.  And please tell me how you discovered they had missed some of your resources with the upgrade calculator?  I'd sure love to bring Portfolio down another notch or two . . .

 

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 8:51 PM

Dan DeVilder:

And please tell me how you discovered they had missed some of your resources with the upgrade calculator?  I'd sure love to bring Portfolio down another notch or two . . . 

I know you weren't asking me, but perhaps this will help: I went through the upgrade calculator looking at all the green shaded titles. I recognized some of them as ones I had purchased or ones I might have purchased but wasn't sure. I checked in my library for them and found which ones I owned already. To verify that I had indeed purchased them separately (i.e., they hadn't come with my base package), I went to my account page on logos.com, clicked on the Order History tab and searched for each of them. Since some of them I bought on the same order with several other titles, I then had to go to the Logos website to look up the price of each separate resource that I own already that's in the Portfolio (that's not necessarily what I paid for them when I bought them, but it's the closest I could come). It was a tedious process, but what I came up with might save me lots of money, so it was worth it.  The Upgrade Calculator says my custom upgrade price would be $2182.54. However the total cost of what I've bought already that showed up shaded green in the upgrade calculator was $1772.59. That's a huge chunk of the upgrade price! I'm not expecting them to sell me the upgrade for the difference between those two figures (which would be only $409.95. But I'm hoping for something significantly lower than what I'd pay if I ordered individually all the titles that I really care about in the package which I don't have already (total: $1492.65). Otherwise there's no point for me in getting the Portfolio. I really must stop spending money on new resources, though, and start using the ones I have more!

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 9:32 PM

Kevin Becker:
I'd love to have BAGD in Logos. Lots of books reference it (esp the SIL Summaries) and I'd love to be able to compare the tweaks done between the two.

I have BAGD, but it seems the majority of the resources that do have BAGD page references don't have links to it, including AYDB, NIGTC, Pillar, Reymond's ST, Grudem's ST, the Theological Journals, and Wallace's grammar (I don't have the SIL Summaries). However I do see that the BECNT and NAC volumes do have working BAGD links.

I don't know if Logos doesn't consider it a valid link target anymore, but it's a little annoying that it's so hit and miss.

I can manually look up the page refs, so it's still nice to have.

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 9:36 PM

Todd Phillips:
I don't know if Logos doesn't consider it a valid link target anymore, but it's a little annoying that it's so hit and miss.

If they don't, they should......

 

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 9:42 PM

Damian McGrath:

Todd Phillips:
I don't know if Logos doesn't consider it a valid link target anymore, but it's a little annoying that it's so hit and miss.

If they don't, they should......

 

Especially since BAGD is referenced much more than BDAG--at least in my library.  Searching my entire library, BAGD has 8383 occurrences, and BDAG has 1728.

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