I will use Logos3 until v4 is ready

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Posts 41
J.D. Matthews | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Dec 19 2009 6:20 PM

I Bought the newest version after watching the videos of all the new features.

I like what it appears v4 is going to be, but right now I can't use it. I can't do what I need to do for bible study. I can study the word fine with it, but I can't get the fuits of that study. I find my self studying with it then having to use v3 to make notes, print sermons, print list, etc. I did not even bother to open v4 today and my Bible study was very productive.

I did not realize just how good v3 is. I'll probably check back in March or April. Hopfully v4 will be close to ready by then. I might of asked for a refund, but I did get quite a few books and addins by upgradeing.

I look forward to a spring with a good v4 product, but I don't have the warm and fuzzy feeling that makes me want to use it through the winter.

God bless.

P.S. (would be nice to have spell check)

Posts 187
Rev. D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 19 2009 6:50 PM

I felt just like you for the first several weeks, but had a change of heart recently. It wasn't until I used Logos 3 a few days ago that I realized how much I love Logos 4. Now, that doesn't mean that it isn't without it's problems. I purchased a new laptop before discovering Logos was even working on a new version of the software and, had I known beforehand, I would have gotten a more powerful laptop. But I love the software so much that I learned how to upgrade the RAM on a MacBook Pro, which was a feat in itself since I'm somewhat technologically challenged, and boosted my RAM to 8 GB. This, in addition to some wonderful advice regarding setting changes, has made the program run faster and more flawlessly. 

J.D., watching the various videos helped me adjust to the new format and feel of the software. But, once again, I do understand how you feel. My prayer is that the bugs will be worked out quickly, along adding all the missing features of Logos 3, so we can all have a more enjoyable experience. 

Blessings!

Christina

 

iMac 27 inch, 3.1 GHz Core i5, 1T HD, 4 GB RAM

 

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 19 2009 6:59 PM

JD--a refund would not be smart, unless you don't like the resources you got at that price (unless you just got the minimal upgrade that had mostly L4 stuff...even then the price was low).  You can use all those library resources in L3

You are one of many--I included--who had a hard time changing over because the work flow is different.  I would suggest also looking at videos by some of the forum members here that are free (LaRosa, John Fidel, Mark Barnes, etc).  They introduce a few different ways to have a work flow.

Not trying to be patronizing: but the frustration you are feeling is quite common, especially when trying to master something new, especially when you had a groove the old way and what you are using it for is something you love and know.  Give it some time. 

Play around with it when the pressure is off. Then you might have some breathing space to grow with it.  But seriously, look at those videos.  There are some others, non-logos originated, for sale, too.  pretty cheaply.  All that will help, besides the people on this forum.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 41
J.D. Matthews | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 19 2009 7:25 PM

I don't want a refund. The books and addins made using v3 worth what I paid for the upgrade.

I have no problem using v4. I watched the videos and was able to do quite a bit with the new format, but when it's time to "close the deal" I can't. I have to switch to v3 to print, annote, etc.

It takes longer using both programs, so I'll just use v3. I don't feel like going through 3 months of testing. when the product is closer to standing on it's own I'll try to use it again.

God Bless

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 19 2009 7:49 PM

Dan DeVilder:

JD--a refund would not be smart, unless you don't like the resources you got at that price (unless you just got the minimal upgrade that had mostly L4 stuff...even then the price was low).  You can use all those library resources in L3

You are one of many--I included--who had a hard time changing over because the work flow is different.  I would suggest also looking at videos by some of the forum members here that are free (LaRosa, John Fidel, Mark Barnes, etc).  They introduce a few different ways to have a work flow.

Not trying to be patronizing: but the frustration you are feeling is quite common, especially when trying to master something new, especially when you had a groove the old way and what you are using it for is something you love and know.  Give it some time. 

Play around with it when the pressure is off. Then you might have some breathing space to grow with it.  But seriously, look at those videos.  There are some others, non-logos originated, for sale, too.  pretty cheaply.  All that will help, besides the people on this forum.

L4 is a mixed bag.  There are some things it does very well or which can't be done at all in L3.  I use L4 for all of my pure reading since I can float the panel and it remembers where I left off without my needing to set a bookmark (how often had I forgotten to do that in L3?).  The maps are terrific -- infinitely improved over L3 (the linkage to Google earth is good too).  I like the visual resources such as the 3D pics which we now have.  Those pictures were taken before the impact of modern technology upon the region and therefore give an idea of what it had been like in earlier times.  That said, when it comes to my real work, L4 just doesn't cut it.  I wouldn't ask for a refund (partly because it didn't cost me anything for the crossgrade since I was in the beta program), but I will bide my time until I am able to switch to L4 more (if not totally) exclusively.   The morph search must be improved (probably the syntax search as well, but I never managed to become proficient in that).  Notes need to be improved.  Unless I can add links to resources from within a note without going around Robin Hood's barn, it simply will not serve.   I was disappointed that the Eusebian Canons and Aland's Synopsis Quatuor Evangeliorum is not available unless I wish to invest in a more expensive program since I do use them in L3.  While I don't intend to pay for a more expensive program and get many more resources which I simply don't want, I would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for those two items.  Holding my breath until L4 is ready for prime time.  I have faith that they will accomplish that eventually.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1757
Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 19 2009 8:14 PM

J.D. Matthews:
I Bought the newest version after watching the videos of all the new features.

I like what it appears v4 is going to be, but right now I can't use it....

My initial reaction was somewhat similar, JD, but I'd encourage to to use both for a while.

It was the middle of a busy week when I downloaded v.4. After waiting for resources and indexing, my first reaction was, "I can't find my way quickly here. Back to v.3 until I get some time." So, it was v.3 for the rest of that week, and yes: I did appreciate its productivity just as you said.

That weekend, I spent a full day investigating v.4. I got rid of the home page, learned about the columns in library view and how to prioritize resources, and set up different layouts for reading and for bible study. By the end of the weekend, I was getting comfortable with version 4.

In the following days, I discovered the Information window, set up dynamic collections, read the wiki articles, and learned how to use the command box to advantage. In v.3, I'd outgrown the Passage Guide, but in v.4 a custom passage guide + prioritized resources is surprisingly useful.

In v.3, I'd never read an entire book through, but I'm finding the interface works for that in v.4 as well. First one was Ben Witherington's The Jesus Quest (334 pp.) I just save the layout, and resume where I left off after completing other work.

The Bible Search is the only part of the new interface I still find clumsy. Sure there are some features stll coming, but few of those (other than PBB support) send me back to v.3.

To me, it feels like Logos has tried to do in v.4 what MS did with Word: give you an interface where a beginner can open the program and start using it, but there's all this other stuff that's under the surface when you need it. Experienced users like you have to dig to find that stuff. Once you discover how to prioritize your resources and see v.4 using your preferred resources automatically in the Information window or a custom passage guide, you will feel like you have software working the way you work -- much moreso than v.3, I believe.

It's worth persisting and learning the new version.

Posts 41
J.D. Matthews | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2009 1:30 PM

I saw the news that an update for logos V4 was ready, so I downloaded the update (very painless for me. took about 30 min from start to fuinish, Including indexing). I had extra time, so I started researching for my seromon this week in V4. I must admit there are some nice features in V4 that I did not realize until I used V3 again. The neatest thing I like is the information wilndow. There was little need to run reports or open more books. I was able to get the deffinitions and pronouciations of words with a simple mouse hover. This is perticarly helpful when I read the TDNT. Much of the commentary is in the original laguage. Since I don't read greek, then I would open a greek lex to understand most of the comments. In V4 the information window reduces the need for this.

I pray that the notes and sermon files are ready soon!

 

BTW.

Is there a way to open up the ESL when srong # are clicked, and then open up DBL when GK# are Clicked, and Then open up the TDNT when TDNT V:P# are clicked? I have played around with the prioritize rules, but the TDNT is what opens  most of the times when strong # are clicked. If I put ESL in prioritzed list then the ESL opens when TDNT V:P# are clicked.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2009 1:43 PM

J. D. - glad you had a productive day in L4. There is much that is new and valuable in this version and worth taking the time to learn about (as you have been) and setting it up in ways that facilitate what I want to do. I use it almost exclusively now after quite a few months as a beta tester and user like everyone else. L3 is still there when I need its features.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2009 1:54 PM

J.D. Matthews:

BTW.

Is there a way to open up the ESL when srong # are clicked, and then open up DBL when GK# are Clicked, and Then open up the TDNT when TDNT V:P# are clicked? I have played around with the prioritize rules, but the TDNT is what opens  most of the times when strong # are clicked. If I put ESL in prioritzed list then the ESL opens when TDNT V:P# are clicked.

Mark Barnes has done a video on prioritizing and recently gave some help on solving an issue like the one you are referring to so he'd be better to answer this than me. You need to right click on your prioritized resource and set advanced limits. Here are some examples:

I haven't tried to see if this produces what you are interested in, but it could head you in the right direction.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 41
J.D. Matthews | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2009 7:16 PM

Those are the exact setting I toyed wth before I posted the question. It seems that the TDNT is (by defalt) the top resource for Strong #. Even when i put an advanced rule that makes ESL the priorityu for Strong # the TDNT is still preferred above the ESL. If i place the ESL in my priority list w/o any advanced rules the ESL take priority for all types of possible active data types.

The work around I'm using right now is to right click the link and manually pick ESL. a little more work, but I only use V4 for a quick pre study. I use V3 to finish and up and post my sermons.

Posts 94
Thomas Myers | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 25 2009 4:56 PM

J.D. you will find that L4 is totally ready for use.  You will not be disappointed.  God bless you this Christmas and you study of God's Word.   

Posts 323
Doug | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 25 2009 5:06 PM

I definitely agree.  I felt like turning back for the first week of using L4.  Now there is no turning back.  I'm hoping for a little more improved performance (computerwise) out of L4 soon.  But other than that, it really is a great program.  I'm even considering an upgrade to a quad-core processor to maybe run it a little better and with a couple of monitors.  Wow!

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 25 2009 5:16 PM

Thomas Myers:

J.D. you will find that L4 is totally ready for use.  You will not be disappointed.  God bless you this Christmas and you study of God's Word.   

Why shouldn't he be disappointed.  At the moment I feel that L4 is basically only good as a reader, not as a study tool.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 3883
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 25 2009 5:44 PM

George Somsel:
Why shouldn't he be disappointed.  At the moment I feel that L4 is basically only good as a reader, not as a study tool.

Thank you George - I feel that L4 is a mixed bag.  There are times (and, when it returns, on my laptop) that I will use L3.  There are times I find L4 useful.  I really think it was released too early.  It was not quite ready for use on a regular basis - even realizing that many Beta testers and user supported it and still do.

I will continue to let it grow on me - but for now it will be a mixture of both L3 and L4.

Blessings,

Floyd

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 3760
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 26 2009 11:32 AM

Floyd Johnson:
I will continue to let it grow on me - but for now it will be a mixture of both L3 and L4.

+ 1

Another beta tester.

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB

Posts 41
J.D. Matthews | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 26 2009 6:04 PM

I am sold on V4, it is just not ready to be used for my needs right now. The look and feel are  great. The reports are great. It just can't provide to tools and production that I need for my ministry.

I use Logos for more that just study, I use it for sermon preperation also. I love the NKJV tools in V4 but I do the same by linking up the KJV and NASB with my NKJV in V3. The V3 ESV provides most tools that i get in V4 for the NKJV.

My notes are important. Some busy weeks My notes are enough to print out and use while the sermon is preached. Right now Sermon files are not even an option in V4.

This is not a slam on V4. It's great, but it's not a finished product. It can't provide what I need right now, so I will use V3 as my primary Bible software. Sometimes I have both open.

(I am a terible speller, so please excuse the mis-spelled words)

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 26 2009 7:20 PM

J.D. Matthews:
I am a terible speller, so please excuse the mis-spelled words)

I did not notice. Were there misspelled words in your post?

JD

I understand your line of reasoning. The notes and printing features of  L4 definitely need enhancement. It does not affect me because I keep most of my notes elsewhere.

Posts 41
J.D. Matthews | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 27 2009 5:53 AM

I should have worded it ,"if there are any mis-spelled words". I did not reread the post, so I assumed there may have been at least 1.
I feel lost without spell check. God bless the person who thought of it.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 27 2009 2:24 PM

J.D. Matthews:
I feel lost without spell check. God bless the person who thought of it.

Does you browser not have a spell-checker? I am using Safari on a Mac and have become so accustomed to it, that I just look for the red under-lines. However, I can still make typos with correct spelling, just the wrong word. Geeked

Posts 788
Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 27 2009 3:03 PM

J.D. -

Firefox is a great browser and has spell check. I am spelling-challenged too, my friend!

It took me a good month to make the mental switch over to V4. Hang in there with it. I still have V3 on my computer but have not opened it in weeks.

Jerry

iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.

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