Will the new Dell Venue 8.1 Windows Tablets run Logos?

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This post has 54 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 1753
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Oct 23 2013 8:10 PM

Will the new Dell Venue 8.1 Windows Tablets run Logos?

Posts 2888
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 23 2013 9:51 PM

With 2 GB of ram, not very well.  Very slowly.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 1753
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 24 2013 9:15 AM

Thanks for replying Michael.  Shucks!

Posts 164
Reimar Vetne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 24 2013 9:51 AM

There will be a Dell Venue 11 Pro that will have up to 8 GB of Ram and up to 256 GB of SSD drive. That should be able to run Logos quite well.

http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/corporate/secure/en/Documents/dell-venue-11pro-brochure.pdf

Posts 5621
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 24 2013 9:55 AM

Reimar Vetne:

There will be a Dell Venue 11 Pro that will have up to 8 GB of Ram and up to 256 GB of SSD drive. That should be able to run Logos quite well.

http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/corporate/secure/en/Documents/dell-venue-11pro-brochure.pdf

I'm afraid that's going to be priced out of my reach.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 408
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 24 2013 2:38 PM

Reimar Vetne:

There will be a Dell Venue 11 Pro that will have up to 8 GB of Ram and up to 256 GB of SSD drive. That should be able to run Logos quite well.

http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/corporate/secure/en/Documents/dell-venue-11pro-brochure.pdf

The Dell XPS 11 looks nice as well.  It is another take on the Lenovo Yoga 11S.  I wonder if they will come out with a 13" version to take on the Yoga  Pro?

http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/19/campaigns/xps-11

Posts 2888
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 24 2013 10:22 PM
Reimar Vetne:

There will be a Dell Venue 11 Pro that will have up to 8 GB of Ram and up to 256 GB of SSD drive. That should be able to run Logos quite well.

http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/corporate/secure/en/Documents/dell-venue-11pro-brochure.pdf

That sounds very interesting. You are right that should be able to run Logos 5. Sounds like it will compete with the Surface Pro 2. But there is not a Dell Venue Tablet with more than 2 GB RAM memory for sale at Dell at the present time. So we will have to wait and see.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 1753
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 25 2013 5:07 PM

I am with Todd.  Please someone make an affordable Surface Pro 2 competitor we can all enjoy Logos on.

Heavy sigh,.

Posts 2888
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 25 2013 6:19 PM
JoshInRI:

I am with Todd.  Please someone make an affordable Surface Pro 2 competitor we can all enjoy Logos on.

Heavy sigh,.

We all agree with that.

However, to run Logos 5 well a tablet will need 8 GB Ram, a strong processor, preferably a quad i5 or i7, and at least a 256 GB SSD hard drive. All that does not come cheaply. There may be a bargain tablet that will run Logos 5, but the question is how well.

I would expect Dells Venue pro 11 will be a little cheaper that the Surface Pro 2, but I doubt it will be much cheaper.

And even with the tablet that can run Logos, don't forget Logos 5 was not written for a touch screen, but a keyboard. That will be a factor to consider. Logos needs some modifications to make it more tablet friendly.

It is a couple of pounds heavier, but I wonder it the Dell XPS 12 convertible might not be a better solution right now.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 23
Michael Weber | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 6 2013 2:29 PM
I'm mixed on RAM. I'm more concerned with the CPU. Even if the OS pages because the RAM fills up, it will page to a flash drive which is typically pretty fast. Also, get the 64GB and do not plan to use the MicroSD to store your library. I haven't tried the latest, expensive and fast MicroSDs. I have attempted to use the cheap 32GB MicroSDs and library performance was incredibly slow. Curious if anyone else has had this issue. I have a Surface Pro and Logos 5 is pretty fast on it. Very bulky and limited battery life. I'm interested to hear if anyone test drives the Venue 8 with Logos 5. I suspect it may be usable but slow in loading resources or searches.
Posts 1753
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 6 2013 4:03 PM

I think Jesus will come back before we get a useable affordable Logos 5 machine that is more than a reader.

 

Posts 2888
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 6 2013 6:32 PM
Reimar Vetne:

There will be a Dell Venue 11 Pro that will have up to 8 GB of Ram and up to 256 GB of SSD drive. That should be able to run Logos quite well.

http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/corporate/secure/en/Documents/dell-venue-11pro-brochure.pdf

I agree Reimar, and I am seriously considering purchasing the Dell Venue 11 Pro to replace my laptop and iPad both.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 1753
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 8 2013 6:15 AM

Still too expensive with not enough ram to run L5 properly.

No

Posts 2888
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 8 2013 10:00 AM
JoshInRI:

Still too expensive with not enough ram to run L5 properly.

No

Josh,

It is a bit confusing because the thread has discussed two tablets: the Dell Venue 8 and Dell Venue 11 pro. I agree that the Venue 8 does not have enough RAM to run Logos well. But the Venue 11 pro can have 8 GB of RAM. It also has an new quad 4 processor. I believe that is more than enough to run Logos.

Expensive? That sounds like your mean the Venue 11 pro - Yes, but it is cheaper than its equally equipped competitors like Surface pro 2, and not much more than an equally equipped laptop. There is no such thing as a cheap machine with 8 GB of RAM, a quad 4 i5 processor, and a SSD 256 GB HD. The Venue 11 with these specs will not be out until about the first of December. Less powerful versions are for sale now. But if running Logos is the reason for buying, it is better to wait a few weeks.

But the Dell Venue 11 should have everything it needs to run Logos 5, and be not much more expensive an equally equipped laptop. And there are other tablets out there than can run Logos as fast as any laptop right now. But none inexpensively.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 23
Michael Weber | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2013 2:52 PM
Just got the Dell Venue 8 Pro. In my opinion, Logos 5 runs acceptable. Takes about 3-5 seconds to open a resource from my library. Around 10-12 seconds to run a search. Touch scrolling is slightly laggy but acceptable - you'll want to go in portrait mode. Voice reading is great. Indexer is pegging my CPU right now but somehow it's still responsive. RAM is at 1.3 of 1.9GB used - not paging yet. Bay Trail is way better than previous Atom processors. I confirmed this with a Windows 8 App, Excel and PowerPivot as well (I'm a developer). It's not nearly as fast as my Surface Pro but for a reader, it's just fine. Now I'm certain that battery will go down the tube if the indexer is running and there's no telling how long it will run. I have the Logos Resource files stored on a microSDHC which is much faster than when I tried it over a year ago. (up to 30MB/s). I bought the 32GB Venue Pro but there's a 64GB available. I'm certain the indexer would run faster. You cannot charge this on your desktop or laptop which is a little disappointing. It requires a 10W USB charger. I also bought an Asus T100 for my wife for $389. I'm sure the experience would be the same as the CPU and RAM are the same. I need to give it more time. I have about a 12GB resource library and I'm crossing my fingers the indexer can get through it on an SD card in my lifetime. "Preparing your library" took about an hour. However, I'm more than pleased with the responsiveness even while resources are pegged. I'm not sure if Logos does a full indexing after every update. If it does, that my hurt a little as it seems the devs release about every other week. Oh it's soooo lite however. A much better companion to my work-horse laptop than the Surface Pro. I've come to the realization that even on a 10.1 or 12" screen you are not going to be productive. It's been a dream to have the Window Logos desktop app on something portable. It completely blows away iOS. Folks, even if I had more RAM I'm not certain I'd get better performance. It's the CPU. i5s and Haswells work extremely well with Logos. When it comes to file I/O, CPU and disk speed is where it's at. Logos is continually loading your resources from GBs of file into memory and writing to the index. Regardless - pleasantly surprised so far. Definitely will be using it in Church. I don't have a stylus yet but that's the next step. Under screen resolution, you'll want to manually enlarge text to 125% right off the bat. Desktop mode is tiny.
Posts 1753
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2013 3:28 PM

Thanks Mr. Weber.  My curiosity is peaked.  Keep posting - especially on the day you return it.

Community service freebie:

If you run into a problem with the wifi Dell's WiFi driver, go to the Dell site, download the Dell Wireless 1538 WAPI Application (File: DW1538_WAPI_2007_WB32_setup_ZPE.exe) updated on 23/October/2013, install and reboot. It might help.  I borrowed this fix online and thought it might be fun to post it for you.

Please let us know how it works with a good stylus and cover/case.  I pray its a blessing for you.

Waiting expectantly and hoping for us all.

Posts 2888
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 15 2013 9:26 PM

Very interesting.  Thanks for the report!

Michael Weber:
Just got the Dell Venue 8 Pro. In my opinion, Logos 5 runs acceptable. Takes about 3-5 seconds to open a resource from my library. Around 10-12 seconds to run a search. Touch scrolling is slightly laggy but acceptable - you'll want to go in portrait mode. Voice reading is great. Indexer is pegging my CPU right now but somehow it's still responsive. RAM is at 1.3 of 1.9GB used - not paging yet. Bay Trail is way better than previous Atom processors. I confirmed this with a Windows 8 App, Excel and PowerPivot as well (I'm a developer). It's not nearly as fast as my Surface Pro but for a reader, it's just fine. Now I'm certain that battery will go down the tube if the indexer is running and there's no telling how long it will run. I have the Logos Resource files stored on a microSDHC which is much faster than when I tried it over a year ago. (up to 30MB/s). I bought the 32GB Venue Pro but there's a 64GB available. I'm certain the indexer would run faster. You cannot charge this on your desktop or laptop which is a little disappointing. It requires a 10W USB charger. I also bought an Asus T100 for my wife for $389. I'm sure the experience would be the same as the CPU and RAM are the same. I need to give it more time. I have about a 12GB resource library and I'm crossing my fingers the indexer can get through it on an SD card in my lifetime. "Preparing your library" took about an hour. However, I'm more than pleased with the responsiveness even while resources are pegged. I'm not sure if Logos does a full indexing after every update. If it does, that my hurt a little as it seems the devs release about every other week. Oh it's soooo lite however. A much better companion to my work-horse laptop than the Surface Pro. I've come to the realization that even on a 10.1 or 12" screen you are not going to be productive. It's been a dream to have the Window Logos desktop app on something portable. It completely blows away iOS. Folks, even if I had more RAM I'm not certain I'd get better performance. It's the CPU. i5s and Haswells work extremely well with Logos. When it comes to file I/O, CPU and disk speed is where it's at. Logos is continually loading your resources from GBs of file into memory and writing to the index. Regardless - pleasantly surprised so far. Definitely will be using it in Church. I don't have a stylus yet but that's the next step. Under screen resolution, you'll want to manually enlarge text to 125% right off the bat. Desktop mode is tiny.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 23
Michael Weber | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 16 2013 6:05 AM
Hello all,

Here's an update after a couple days of use.
Indexer stopped pegging my CPU after 30 minutes and went down to just 30% usage of the CPU. It then ran for about 4 hours, indexing my 12GB library. That's not bad. I could have also paused it, running it a more opportune time. This means the indexer will not completely drain my battery with updates. Last update I installed the indexer did not even run.

Folks, I'm not the typical user but if you're reading from a "forum", you may not be either. I've been IT for over a decade and I love Logos. I like portability as I have four kids and I try to grab study time when I can (my brain leaks Hebrew and Greek rapidly). Therefore, I have a high tolerance for customization. If you want to use this device with Desktop Logos, you should be comfortable with:
- Small touch screens with tiny buttons (stylus may help but I always lose them)
- A little patience with scrolling which, by the way, isn't the greatest on my Surface Pro
- A little patience with performance lag
- Know how to snap windows to the left and right with your finger - not Mary Poppins snap - drag the window all the way to the left or right until it snaps
- Know how to mitigate limited storage problems (moving your Resources and Index files to an SD)

Oh but how nice it is to have my interlinears, reverse interlinears and favorite book icons at the top. Program scale up Logos to 110% so you can touch them.

The Logos for Windows 8 App is sad - do you hear me developers? It's sad. I know money talks but you need to budget more for the Windows 8 App. Why am I still typing in the address to books on the onscreen keyboard? Spend a few hours and design a touch based book reference lookup. Depending on your orthodoxy, the books, chapters and verse numbers don't change so it should be easy. Why does my Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible freeze up? Why can't I turn on at least interlinear on the New American Standard? Put those interns to work - I'm not sure it could get much worse. For the right resources in my library, I would even do some work for you here :).

For the Logos 8 desktop app, I'm really glad you added touch to scrolling. You could also do some really simple adjustments like enable us to make the icons larger and have a visual library explorer. Developers, how hard would it be to have a grid of large categorized icons with the option to sort by your prioritized list? Oh, group drag and drop to "hidden resource" would be a dream.

Digressing.

Pros
- Portability is truly great with current size and weight. Still waiting for case and stylus to come.
- Responsive CPU. I love this processor. It's cheap and it does the job. However, the last Atom machine I had was truly insufferable.
- Battery is great. I estimate 5-7 hours is right depending on what you're doing.
- Connected sleep. This means you can virtually power down the device and still have your favorite Audible book, music or podcast playing. This saves a ton on battery life.
- It's loud.
- Works well as a Logos reader (slightly laggy scrolling). If you don't need the language or search features, Logos for Windows 8 does very well. You can even download the books for offline usage.
- Windows 8.1 has made everything better - awesome mail app, easier navigation with the start button and set your start screen background to your desktop to avoid epileptic seizures.
- Comes with full Office 2013 Home and Student (Word, Excel PowerPoint). Learn how to use One Note. It's amazing for note taking and life organization.

Cons
- Tiny desktop, tiny print requires tiny finger gymnastics and good eyesight. You will only do one thing on the screen at a time. Although I do like the desktop-snap a logos reference next to Foxit's Adobe Reader sometimes. All 8" tablets have this problem no doubt. They're too small for snapping documents side-by-side. Under resolution, play with bumping up the text size scaling. Mine is set to 125%. I think you need a 10" to snap two documents on the screen at the same time.
- Storage is limited. Get the 64GB version. I got my 32GB at microcenter for $259. 32GB is small even with the 32GB microSDHC. I had to move SkyDrive, the indexes and resource manager to the SD card. Performance is still good. To move SkyDrive, you need to format the SD to NTFS.
- Plan to spend money on the case - $40 and probably the stylus - $35.
- No full USB. You'll need a micro-to-full adapter I think if you want to connect a keyboard unless you go Bluetooth.
- DO NOT BUY THIS MACHINE TO BE PRODUCTIVE (Word, Excel, PowerPoint). Get an ultra-book.

Summary of Configurations
- Screen came really dim due to power settings. Go to power settings -> change plan settings -> change advanced power settings -> expand Display -> disable adaptive brightness. Then just adjust your brightness from settings. Even 40% is better than the default.
- If you have the 32GB, move Resource Manager and Indexes to a fast microSDHC (30MB/s) - format to NTFS first if you want to move SkyDrive there
- Increase text size under resolution to 125%
- Increase Logos 5 program scaling to 110%
- Buy the case and stylus ($70+) - join Dell Advantage and get percentage off
- Set Start Screen background same as Desktop background (task bar - properties - navigation)
- Install Foxit Adobe Reader (it's free)
- Install Amazing Lock Screen, Audible, Kindle and Logos from the Windows Store and run it
- Set Mail, Weather, Bing News to LARGE size tiles (press and hold tile on start screen)
- Pray for Logos developers
If I've discouraged the technically faint-of-heart, fat-fingerers or hard-of-seeing then I've done my job.
There's also a lot of encouragement here. I thought this device would be a big no-go running Logos 5 and am very pleased with it. I love it. As my eyes go and dexterity diminishes with age, I'm certain those Windows 8 App developers will catch up and offer me a fine alternative!
Posts 1753
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 18 2013 10:27 AM

Thanks for being so thorough.  I am now even more discouraged.

Posts 23
Michael Weber | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 25 2013 7:55 AM
Dell Venue 8 Pro 32 GB is currently $229 on Amazon. Amazon.com: Dell Venue 8 Pro 32 GB Tablet (Windows 8.1): Computers & Accessories http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FEE7B1I/?t=slicinc-20&tag=slicinc-20&ascsubtag=6LoxiFXgEeOPCnJfawW3Wg0_A7zo3_s6Q_0_0
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