SUGGESTION: Possible Tweaks to March Madness

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Posts 5434
David Paul | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Mar 10 2014 8:54 AM

The question was raised in the post below from another thread--what could be done to improve this sale?

Phil Gons:

Thanks for the feedback. There's no intentional gender discrimination going on here. These are the criteria we used:

  1. The author has lots of books available in Logos that we are able to discount up to 75% off. (Customers are disappointed when we don't have many options to choose from for each author.)
  2. The author's books are among our bestselling products. (We want to ensure the sale has books that most people are going to be interested in.)
  3. We pick 32 living authors and 32 dead authors.

Using those criteria, we didn't end up with any women authors in the running this year (or previous years?). We didn't intentionally include or exclude any authors based on their gender, race, age, marital status, nationality, denomination, theological positions, or any other discriminating factor.

We're absolutely not opposed to including women authors, but we just don't have many with a wide selection of popular products.

Would you prefer that we use a different set of criteria for next year? Should we not be concerned about the number of books an author has in Logos (that we can discount up to 75% off)? Should we ignore how well an author's books sell? Our current thinking is that this would compromise the overall effectiveness of the sale, but we're certainly open to rethinking things.

My idea(s), also from another thread, is below:

David Paul:

The thematic concept (brackets similar to college B-ball) was novel a few years back, but I think Logos would do better sales if they just offered customers two components: 1) a list of approved authors not unlike what is offered during MM but much broader in scope, and 2) a series of percentage-off choices (again, similar to the current MM options) that could be applied by customers to the authors of their choice.

In this way, every customer could craft their own sales--satisfaction would go way up, acrimony would go way down. I could apply my 75% to Walter Brueggemann to my great glee, thus actually getting to spend some money to Logos's great glee, while some slow-poke who hasn't already picked up Carson's or Wright's stuff for whatever reason can buy those author's until they're coming out their ears and noses.

David Paul:

By "approved authors" I'm just referring to the comments from Logos in one of the other threads (the one about the lack of women in the MM brackets, I think) that pointed out that they have certain criteria they apply when picking authors, the main one being they have to have publisher approval for the deep discount offering. But in the scenario I'm suggesting, whether an author has a ton of resources in Logos isn't a big deal since each customer is going to hold the cards in how and with which authors they want to apply their best sale percentages. If somebody with limited resources is happy applying their 75% to a single resource from an author with only one offering, it's no skin off anyone's nose.

The one addition Logos could add is the possibility of offering a few approved collections or series as well. That would be awesome in my financially-strapped world.

The element of chance is removed, but wouldn't that make you happier with the process and what its outcome could be?

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Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 10 2014 10:13 AM

Include only those writing on the OT and using Hebrew in the quotations.  Wink  That ought to include everyone's interests (you ARE interested in works using Hebrew, are you not?)  Big Smile  Of course, everyone is.

george
gfsomsel

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Posts 5434
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 10 2014 1:00 PM

So...no one thinks choosing your own products to apply sale prices to is a good idea?? Wow, no wonder March Madness and Community Pricing are so dysfunctional.

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Posts 5434
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 15 2014 11:08 AM

This thread has inexplicably gotten no traction at all, so let me spell this out in short bits...

YOU get a batch of %-off discounts...i.e. one each of 25%, 35%, 45%, 55%, 65%, & 75% and YOU then get to apply them to whichever authors you choose from the much larger and more diverse pool of choices that Logos provides.

Advantages: You get to apply the discounts to whichever author you choose.

Disadvantages: You don't get to be disappointed when your author is bumped out in the first round...or because he OR SHE wasn't one of the lucky few to get picked to be in a bracket...again.

How It Works:

Example 1: ME

  • 75% off -- Walter Brueggemann
  • 65% off -- Walter Kaiser
  • 55% off -- Tremper Longman
  • 45% off -- Umberto Cassuto
  • 35% off -- David J. A. Clines
  • 25% off -- Brevard Childs

Example 2: JOE AVERAGE

  • 75% off -- D. A. Carson
  • 65% off -- N. T. Wright
  • 55% off -- John MacArthur
  • 45% off -- John Piper
  • 35% off -- A. W. Tozer
  • 25% off -- Charles Spurgeon

My reaction to this sale...

WHOOT!! It's my Cake!!

Joe Average's reaction to this sale...

WHOOT!! It's his Cake too!!

Finally, the new name for this fabulous sale...

MARCH GLADNESS!!!

Yes

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Posts 2333
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 15 2014 11:20 AM

I would guess that they have to work with publishers to allow the discounts, so your proposal would require a considerable amount of negotiation, since it would allow for more authors/publishers.  I am not saying it is a bad idea;  I'm just saying that it would take more effort on the part of Logos.

I would also bet that there is a lot of sales strategy in what works Logos chooses.  For instance, if they allow you to get a commentary for a large discount, then it would make you more likely to want other volumes from the same set.  Though they do usually offer a lot of works that wouldn't seem to fit some particular strategy.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 5434
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 15 2014 12:12 PM

My suggestion is predicated on Phil's comments (quoted in the OP) regarding what Logos uses as criteria for its choice of authors. As I read it, there exists the possibility for a much broader choice of authors. The offerings at present are limited by perceptions and considerations that would not be a concern under my scenario. By doing away with the contest aspect of the MM sale, which always necessarily scuttles quality authors early on and leaves me and others blase, disappointed, and disinterested, the more open "you choose" aspect would allow authors who are eligible but not considered "best sellers" to get in on the action. According to what Phil says, that is already possible, it just isn't the way it's currently done. I think that eliminating the brackets also eliminates the need for limitations that suit the use of brackets.

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Posts 2333
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 15 2014 2:55 PM

David Paul:

Phil Gons:

Thanks for the feedback. There's no intentional gender discrimination going on here. These are the criteria we used:

  1. The author has lots of books available in Logos that we are able to discount up to 75% off. (Customers are disappointed when we don't have many options to choose from for each author.)
  2. The author's books are among our bestselling products. (We want to ensure the sale has books that most people are going to be interested in.)
  3. We pick 32 living authors and 32 dead authors.

Using those criteria, we didn't end up with any women authors in the running this year (or previous years?). We didn't intentionally include or exclude any authors based on their gender, race, age, marital status, nationality, denomination, theological positions, or any other discriminating factor.

We're absolutely not opposed to including women authors, but we just don't have many with a wide selection of popular products.

Would you prefer that we use a different set of criteria for next year? Should we not be concerned about the number of books an author has in Logos (that we can discount up to 75% off)? Should we ignore how well an author's books sell? Our current thinking is that this would compromise the overall effectiveness of the sale, but we're certainly open to rethinking things.

The part in parenthesis is what makes me think that the publisher might have something to do with it, since the implication is that they can't discount anything they want.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 5434
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 16 2014 5:19 AM

Joseph Turner:

The part in parenthesis is what makes me think that the publisher might have something to do with it, since the implication is that they can't discount anything they want.

Obviously some publishers won't allow the deep discount of 75%, but that really isn't a problem. Some that don't allow that will allow a 50% discount...so just have two pools to choose from, one that goes up to 75% and one that goes up to 50%. This really isn't that hard, and whatever particular issue arises will have a work-around. The key here is focusing on customer choice ergo customer satisfaction ergo customer spending. Even if the pool was the same as it was this year, if I could skip Carson and Wright and MacArthur and Tozer and get Brueggemann, Kaiser, and Waltke instead, I would be a money-spending happy camper. As it stands now, I'm a miserly grump. Making the changes I'm talking about, with whatever adjustments are necessary, isn't anything close to an insurmountable problem. Logos can get it done.

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Posts 5434
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 22 2014 7:37 AM

Let me try this one more time...

In March Gladness the person you want to win wins every single year!

The person you want to come in second always comes in second!

Support this idea!  Yes

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 22 2014 11:54 AM

Alternative idea is one March Gladness coupon code:

1) Pool of resources could include more than 64 authors

2) Add six eligible resources to cart:

  • Round 1 = Most expensive resource at 30 % off
  • Round 2 = Second most expensive resource at 35 % off
  • Sweet Sixteen = Third most expensive resource at 40 % off
  • Elite 8 = Fourth most expensive resource at 45 % off
  • Final 4 = Fifth most expensive resource at 50 % off
  • Championship = Sixth resource at 75 % off

Note: if each of the six resources had a selling price of $ 100, order total would be $ 325 for an overall discount of 45.8 %

If added 15 eligible resources to cart:

  • Round 1 = Top 3 most expensive resources at 30 % off
  • Round 2 = Next 3 most expensive resources at 35 % off
  • Sweet Sixteen = Third set of 3 most expensive resources at 40 % off
  • Elite 8 = Fourth set of 2 most expensive resources at 45 % off
  • Final 4 = Fifth set of 2 most expensive resources at 50 % off
  • Championship = Two least expensive resources at 75 % off

Note: if each of the 15 resources had a selling price of $ 100, order total would be $ 845 for an overall discount of 43.7 %

Note: if the 15 resource prices started at $ 5 with $ 5 increment, order total is $ 600 before discount of $ 222.25 that is overall 37.0 % off

Progressive coupon code would be reason for Gladness in March (or some other Month): buy more to save more.  Overall discount ranges from a minimum of 30 % off (for one resource) to a maximum of 45.8 % (for six resources with the same selling price).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 22 2014 12:03 PM

I think it's a great idea (echo'ing the unknowns on Logos' end).

I've not really participated in the thing; my early impression was it's a guy thing (plus real basketball enthusiasts like my mom).  Of course the old-white-men pattern made the basketball image a little odd ... the more scholarly apparently hard at getting down the court.

But I don't know Logos' marketing strategy. It may indeed be a guy thing.  (Don't kill me; Logos has gal things too.)

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 19362
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 22 2014 12:04 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

2) Add six eligible resources to cart:

  • Round 1 = Most expensive resource at 30 % off
  • Round 2 = Second most expensive resource at 35 % off
  • Sweet Sixteen = Third most expensive resource at 40 % off
  • Elite 8 = Fourth most expensive resource at 45 % off
  • Final 4 = Fifth most expensive resource at 50 % off
  • Championship = Sixth resource at 75 % off

Nice idea. But I'd like it to work that the most expensive resource is the one that gets 75% off, though, as would everybody I'm sure. (Except Logos, as that would be most costly for them.)

Posts 1523
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 22 2014 12:44 PM

I just have to admit that the majority of people have no real issue with the way Logos handles their March Madness sale. I have voiced several times that I think the tournament needs to be revamped. Carson will win again this year. Whatever...

Posts 5434
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 22 2014 2:52 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Alternative idea is one March Gladness coupon code:

If added 15 eligible resources to cart:

  • Round 1 = Top 3 most expensive resources at 30 % off
  • Round 2 = Next 3 most expensive resources at 35 % off
  • Sweet Sixteen = Third set of 3 most expensive resources at 40 % off
  • Elite 8 = Fourth set of 2 most expensive resources at 45 % off
  • Final 4 = Fifth set of 2 most expensive resources at 50 % off
  • Championship = Two least expensive resources at 75 % off

It may be that you are just using it as a hold-over from March Madness, but I don't see a need for "Rounds"...or a continued thematic connection to college basketball. Most of us wait for and/or look forward to the March sale for about 11 months. By the time it finally arrives, there really is no reason to drag it all out even longer with a "staggered reveal", as "rounds" tends to suggest. Just give me a list with my various pools of authors & collections (those available at up to 45% off, up to 55% off, up to 65% off, up to 75% off) and my batch of applicable sale percentages (35% off, 45% off, 55% off, 65% off, and 75% off) and let me match them up as I see fit. I promise, you will be running my card in less than 24 hours. All in need to know is what I have to work with.

Just to clarify, the fact that some publishers are only willing to discount up to 50% is not a problem. I can simply use my 35% or 45% off options if I want to buy from that particular pool of resources. Those willing to go higher will probably get more of my money though. Facts are facts, and since something is always on sale, I will pretty much only spend $ on what I can get the best deal on. No deal, no dough. Interesting factoid: at 40% off, I might spend $100...at 75% off, I might spend $500 or even more.

Another point: As described above, I have Logos offering one each of the different percentage-off amounts, to be used on the author (or collection) of our choice. But if Logos is so inclined, they could offer more than one each, perhaps at the lower percentages off. Thus there might be one each of 75% off and 65% off, two of 55% off, 3-5 of 45% off, and up to 10 of 35% off. Point is, there is plenty that can be tweaked to encourage customers to make bigger payouts. The key, at least for this customer, is to increase my value. I will spend a lot more money if I'm getting a killer deal.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 22 2014 7:13 PM

Rosie Perera:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

2) Add six eligible resources to cart:

  • Round 1 = Most expensive resource at 30 % off
  • Round 2 = Second most expensive resource at 35 % off
  • Sweet Sixteen = Third most expensive resource at 40 % off
  • Elite 8 = Fourth most expensive resource at 45 % off
  • Final 4 = Fifth most expensive resource at 50 % off
  • Championship = Sixth resource at 75 % off

Nice idea. But I'd like it to work that the most expensive resource is the one that gets 75% off, though, as would everybody I'm sure. (Except Logos, as that would be most costly for them.)

Observation: a number of companies offer Buy One, Get One Free promotions that typically have fine print with less expensive being free.

The most expensive resource(s) being 75 % off is attractive for one's wallet.  If 15 resource prices started at $ 5 with $ 5 increment, order total is $ 600 before discount of $ 332.75 that is overall 55.5 % off (with three most expensive resources receiving 75 % off).

Since rounds are not intrinsic to progressive coupon sale, potentially could be Graduation Gladness in May to June.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 5321
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 22 2014 9:37 PM

Josh:

I just have to admit that the majority of people have no real issue with the way Logos handles their March Madness sale. I have voiced several times that I think the tournament needs to be revamped. Carson will win again this year. Whatever...

In a popularity contest with the same people voting year after year on roughly the same authors it should not surprise you that the same person wins. This is how Logos has set it out, and I would agree with you change would be nice or perhaps at least the top 4 are kicked out of next years round robin.

-Dan 

Posts 2040
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 23 2014 4:34 PM

Perhaps the best offers (to get to select expensive resources for 50-75% off from the author of Your own choice) should be reserved for those who have bought any resources for at least $1,500 during the past 10½ months before the MM, i.e. since it ended the previous year?

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Posts 274
Daniel Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 24 2014 12:46 PM

Unix:

Perhaps the best offers (to get to select expensive resources for 50-75% off from the author of Your own choice) should be reserved for those who have bought any resources for at least $1,500 during the past 10½ months before the MM, i.e. since it ended the previous year?

I'm guessing you're suggesting the $1500 figure because you're assuming that spend level = loyalty to the Logos product.  That could be, but it also may reflect simply that someone has a lot of money to spend (by choice, e.g. careful planning, or by chance, e.g. they have a lot of money). 

To put it a different way, the person who buys a book or set every month may have more commitment to using Logos vs. the person who buys a base package once and then never spends another dime.  Granted, the once a month book or set buyer often has a long way to go to catch up in terms of dollars spent, but the markup is higher on individual sets/books, so it would not make sense (to me at least) to punish those customers, because in the long run they are more profitable.  

So perhaps it would be better to have a different entry level criterion, e.g. X number of books bought in the last year vs. a spend level.  Or just keep it simple and put different authors in the March Madness contest.

Posts 2040
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 24 2014 1:59 PM

I'm thinking my suggestion would save Logos costs on sales (manhours) because many of those who spend a lot are inclined to contact sales to negotiate better prices on various items. With my suggestion all they would have to do would be to wait for MM.

I'm not speaking about how the rest of MM should be.

As You understood, level of $ spent also shows that the customer is loyal to Logos and perhaps has no other Bible Study software. So if I take myself as an example, I have another Bible Study software so now I don't spend that much in Logos anymore. And my total annual outlay isn't as much anymore two weeks from now and onward because I have created a rather strict budget for treats. I already have most of the books I need.

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Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 24 2014 2:12 PM

Unix:

I'm thinking my suggestion would save Logos costs on sales (manhours) because many of those who spend a lot are inclined to contact sales to negotiate better prices on various items. With my suggestion all they would have to do would be to wait for MM.

I'm not speaking about how the rest of MM should be.

As You understood, level of $ spent also shows that the customer is loyal to Logos and perhaps has no other Bible Study software. So if I take myself as an example, I have another Bible Study software so now I don't spend that much in Logos anymore. And my total annual outlay isn't as much anymore two weeks from now and onward because I have created a rather strict budget for treats. I already have most of the books I need.

No one who reads has "most of the books [he] needs."

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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