Tender little feelings hurt?
Poor baby ! 
I just received a notice that Bram Stoker's Dracula was being removed and credit given.
I can hardly believe that enough complained in order to get Logos to remove an offering ! As someone in a thread on this commented, "If you don't like it, don't buy it." The fact of the matter is that Dracula is a classic tale just as Shakespeare's plays. A well-read person should be acquainted with it. Being totally provincial regarding the matter doesn't make anyone more righteous than another. Shame on you ! 
george
gfsomsel
יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Seriously? i thought it fit the Noet branding very well. It's not like they tried to incorporate it into the Lexham English Bible.
George Somsel said:Poor baby !
I just received a notice that Bram Stoker's Dracula was being removed and credit given.I can hardly believe that enough complained in order to get Logos to remove an offering ! As someone in a thread on this commented, "If you don't like it, don't buy it." The fact of the matter is that Dracula is a classic tale just as Shakespeare's plays. A well-read person should be acquainted with it. Being totally provincial regarding the matter doesn't make anyone more righteous than another. Shame on you !
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That really is too bad. I was going for it.
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Disappointing.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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George Somsel said:
I can hardly believe that enough complained in order to get Logos to remove an offering !
I didn't think this would happen but I guess it has.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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George Somsel said:
I can hardly believe that enough complained in order to get Logos to remove an offering !
I can. I don't think that they were right to do it, but I can believe that they did.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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This was my decision; Dracula as a stand-alone title doesn't really fit at Logos.com. It would make more sense as part of a larger literature collection, and at Noet.com, where I expect you'll see it in the future, but at this point it wasn't worth the number of users who were offended/upset.
Please don't provoke a fight with any individual users -- there's no benefit. People have strong feelings about what Bible software should and shouldn't contain, and while we are usually offending someone (every day, it seems!), we also are willing to pull back when the feedback comes from multiple people and there isn't a strong reason to press ahead. Logos will be fine without Dracula for now. :-)
-- Bob
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My guess, tender little pocket book. Dracula? Something from grade school?
Although I'll admit having Dracula in my Logos Bible Software library would seem a bit odd. I could simply not buy it, but the tempation would simply be just too much. I probably need to take the hint, and get rid of my other demonic volumes. I don't think Asherah is demonic. She's a 'symbol'. She'll be ok.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
I don't think Asherah is demonic. She's a 'symbol'. She'll be ok.
Just don't ask her into your heart.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Bob Pritchett said:
This was my decision; Dracula as a stand-alone title doesn't really fit at Logos.com. It would make more sense as part of a larger literature collection, and at Noet.com, where I expect you'll see it in the future, but at this point it wasn't worth the number of users who were offended/upset.
Please don't provoke a fight with any individual users -- there's no benefit. People have strong feelings about what Bible software should and shouldn't contain, and while we are usually offending someone (every day, it seems!), we also are willing to pull back when the feedback comes from multiple people and there isn't a strong reason to press ahead. Logos will be fine without Dracula for now. :-)
-- Bob
Thanks Mr. Bob for being mature about it and considering the weaker brethren. I'm still hoping to see that title in MY Logos library someday, but if today is not the time, then so be it for the sake of those who are not mature enough to just see Dracula as it is: A fine piece of literature that some of us can enjoy reading.
Blessings!
DAL
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[:(] Hoping Noet.com gets it's own store real soon!!!
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DAL said:Bob Pritchett said:
This was my decision; Dracula as a stand-alone title doesn't really fit at Logos.com. It would make more sense as part of a larger literature collection, and at Noet.com, where I expect you'll see it in the future, but at this point it wasn't worth the number of users who were offended/upset.
Please don't provoke a fight with any individual users -- there's no benefit. People have strong feelings about what Bible software should and shouldn't contain, and while we are usually offending someone (every day, it seems!), we also are willing to pull back when the feedback comes from multiple people and there isn't a strong reason to press ahead. Logos will be fine without Dracula for now. :-)
-- Bob
Thanks Mr. Bob for being mature about it and considering the weaker brethren. I'm still hoping to see that title in MY Logos library someday, but if today is not the time, then so be it for the sake of those who are not mature enough to just see Dracula as it is: A fine piece of literature that some of us can enjoy reading.
Blessings!
DAL
I am not sure that you understand how not to provoke a fight, how kind of you to condescend to those you consider weak and immature. It is even kinder to point out our failings. I am sorry that you apparently find it so hard to locate a copy elsewhere.
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There was supposed to be a Noet desktop application launched around this time of the year, maybe May, so I would not be surprised to see both launched together if the desktop application is on track.
Randy W. Sims said:
Hoping Noet.com gets it's own store real soon!!!0 -
I think the frustration is that Bob says he wants to publish everything related to Bible study Take as an example: Religion and Its Monsters by Beal, Timothy K. which is a very legitimate theological book. But now he removes a major reference for the book? Does one believe words or action?
Actually, I think Bob is sincere in what he says but not yet ready for the full consequences. As the makeup of the consumer base changes, I expect the handling of this sort of thing to change - how? I'm not yet ready to guess.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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This topic is a real pain in the neck.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
alabama24 said:
This topic is a real pain in the neck.
It's certainly something you can sink your teeth into. [:)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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MJ. Smith said:
I think the frustration is that Bob says he wants to publish everything related to Bible study Take as an example: Religion and Its Monsters by Beal, Timothy K. which is a very legitimate theological book. But now he removes a major reference for the book? Does one believe words or action?
Actually, I think Bob is sincere in what he says but not yet ready for the full consequences. As the makeup of the consumer base changes, I expect the handling of this sort of thing to change - how? I'm not yet ready to guess.
Of course, in the OT you have Lilith and Leviathan and Rahab. Many of the gods worshipped in that milieu were little more than monsters themselves.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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MJ. Smith said:
Does one believe words or action?
Except for Logos staff who are in a position to change things, all users are judged by their words.
Merits aside, I wonder if anyone stumbling across this thread could tell the difference between the bigoted crowd, and the non-bigoted crowd.
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Lee said:MJ. Smith said:
Does one believe words or action?
Except for Logos staff who are in a position to change things, all users are judged by their words.
Merits aside, I wonder if anyone stumbling across this thread could tell the difference between the bigoted crowd, and the non-bigoted crowd.
Is there a non-bigoted crowd? I think we're all bigoted in one way or another. I'm bigoted against those who would restrict my freedom to read whatever I want.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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OK. Just in case for clarity. I'm not bigoted. Only Josh-ian pretentious.
But I am cracking up yet again. Didn't we see some brothers (quite a few) get quite upset on the leap into Catholicism? I agree 'weak breathren' is insulting. But they sucked it up. Probably at quite a bit of expense to their beliefs. (And I AM impressed with the new Pope.)
But Dracula was just too much for Logos?
The reason I'm concerned isn't Dracula. Just earlier today I cautioned a fence-sitter relative to Accordance, that Logos has large chunks of missing coverage on the NT.
Now we know why. But Dracula?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Lee said:
difference between the bigoted crowd, and the non-bigoted crowd.
Hmmm, my initial suggestion:
- Does the comment respond to what was actually said in the post it is responding to?
- Does the implied reasoning behind the response meet basic requirements for validity, soundness and relevance?
- Bonus points: Does the expression of the point imply that the poster would be willing to entertain other options if a persuasive argument is presented?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Substance, Martha, substance.
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Lighten-up, spend your credit, be happy.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQURobert M. Warren said:Lighten-up, spend your credit, be happy.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Bob Pritchett said:
It would make more sense as part of a larger literature collection, and at Noet.com, where I expect you'll see it in the future,
Please consider releasing a Classic Literature Bundle for Noet. (Slip Dracula in towards the back.) There are many books in my Logos library that lend themselves well to homeschooling. The Noet Classical Foundations Bundle is great for philosophy but why stop there? We need great works of literature that are not included in the Harvard Classics. I hope Dracula makes that cut.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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You know, this actually has me thinking. What happens when Noet gets its own store, and they start offering more literature. What about great works of literature that may have cursing or other things that some may find objectionable. Will classic literature be left out because of the objectionable material, even though it is not under the Logos website?
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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Joseph Turner said:
You know, this actually has me thinking. What happens when Noet gets its own store, and they start offering more literature. What about great works of literature that may have cursing or other things that some may find objectionable. Will classic literature be left out because of the objectionable material, even though it is not under the Logos website?
I suspect that the answer to this question will be in the negative, at least as far as cursing and suchlike go.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Joseph Turner said:
What happens when Noet gets its own store, and they start offering more literature.
One wonders,
The Catcher in the Rye
A Clockwork Orange
The Cider House Rules
Etc..."As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Joseph Turner said:
What about great works of literature that may have cursing or other things that some may find objectionable. Will classic literature be left out because of the objectionable material, even though it is not under the Logos website?
What of Plato's Republic? I find his use of women and young boys objectionable yet I would never expect Noet to censor his works. And what of racially offensive terms such as what is found in Huck Finn? (or was it Tom Sawyer?) Should Noet edit Twain?
If Logos users wish to censor reading material they may want to start with Shakespeare or Perseus.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I would suggest that the hope of many is that one day we will have a better way of organizing and sorting our libraries. So if we have material on the American Civil War, we can enter an "American History Library". And if we have material on Classic Literature we can with ease switch to our "Classic Literature Library". And if we wanted our Religious material, we would be able to switch to our "Religious Library" all in the same program.
The ability to sort and organize our ever increasing libraries in various ways with relative ease is really important. If Kindle had a better system for organizing, I would really not be interested in purchasing material outside religious material for many reasons. The power of Logos is in the search and tagging abilities allowing for research. If I just want books to read, I don't need them in Logos.
I also don't want search results to be more crowded than it is with resources that have nothing to do with my research. Again, if Logos wants to go in the direction of offering any and all books, similar to Kindle, then they need to focus on various options to sort, organize, filter and show results.
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Mark said:
the hope of many is that one day we will have a better way of organizing and sorting our libraries.
We already have much of this control with collections and tags. All my Vyrso, Noet and Verbum resources are integrated into my Logos library. I have the freedom to differentiate by creating collections such as "Philosophy," Catholic," or "Amish Romances." [U]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I am aware of this. But for me, it is not as user friendly and easy as I hope it one day will be. With over 8000 resources, I dont have the time to go through each resource and tag them. Collections also take time to organize and even with tagging and collections, I dont find the system as friendly as it needs to be to appeal to a very large customer base. I may be wrong and am always happy to receive advice. But I have strong suspicion that I am not wrong on this point.
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MJ. Smith said:
Disappointing.
MJ. Smith said:I think the frustration is that Bob says he wants to publish everything related to Bible study Take as an example: Religion and Its Monsters by Beal, Timothy K. which is a very legitimate theological book. But now he removes a major reference for the book? Does one believe words or action?
Actually, I think Bob is sincere in what he says but not yet ready for the full consequences.
[Y]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Here's my suggestion: check out the last paragraph of Letter XVI in The Screwtape Letters. Then, for good measure, 1 Corinthians 8!
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Mark Nolette said:
Then, for good measure, 1 Corinthians 8!
I was raised as a missionary kid in an idolatrous culture. It was not unusual for my mk friends and I to have an occasional snack at the expense of a local idol. We even took a swim in the water reservoir under the "watchful" eye of an idol. We knew our parents might probably object so in the spirit of 1 Corinthians 8 we did not tell them. [:#]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I sure hope you didn't eat those yummy idol-sacrifices during festival-time! (Rev 2.14). Mmmm ... cold autumn ... smell of leaves burning ... tasty soy sauce. Oh wait ... 1 Co 8. I forgot.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
I sure hope you didn't eat those yummy idol-sacrifices during festival-time! (Rev 2.14). Mmmm ... cold autumn ... smell of leaves burning ... tasty soy sauce. Oh wait ... 1 Co 8. I forgot.
Exactly! But then again, some weaker brethren don't fully comprehend that. Dracula, please, come back - don't fly away!!! LOL [6] [A]
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Denise said:
I sure hope you didn't eat those yummy idol-sacrifices during festival-time! (Rev 2.14). Mmmm ... cold autumn ... smell of leaves burning ... tasty soy sauce.
Mostly mikans in the graveyards. During festivals it was mizuame and dango (outside of temple grounds, sans immorality.)
'Nuff said....
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Joseph Turner said:
You know, this actually has me thinking. What happens when Noet gets its own store
I would like to see Noet also get it's own software engine so I don't have to combine the Logos and Noet into one.
I may be putting Descartes before the horse[6] but maybe a separate one for classic literature also.
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Paul Golder said:
The Catcher in the Rye
A Clockwork Orange
The Cider House Rules
Etc...Hmm, I see a Noet "Banned Books Collection" in the offing.
Kent said:I would like to see Noet also get it's own software engine so I don't have to combine the Logos and Noet into one.
It will. It's got a mobile app already, but I'm pretty sure they are working on a desktop app, though it will probably be similar to Verbum where it's a switch you turn on in the main Logos app to get the Noet UI. It would be on by default for users who downloaded it from noet.com. As with Verbum, you'll be able to have both apps installed on the same machine.
Kent said:putting the Descartes before the horse
Groan! [:)]
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George Somsel said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQURobert M. Warren said:Lighten-up, spend your credit, be happy.
Ha! It's what I thought it was!
"Dracula called, he's off the slate,
He may have to litigate,
Don't worry, be happy"
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Kent said:
I would like to see Noet also get it's own software engine
I think I understand why you want this but I would rather see a way to "switch libraries" because I (a) prefer the lower cost of maintaining less duplicate software and (b) am hoping that some text analysis tools I would like in Logos will be added for the sake of Noet.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Kent said:
I would like to see Noet also get it's own software engine
I think I understand why you want this but I would rather see a way to "switch libraries" because I (a) prefer the lower cost of maintaining less duplicate software and (b) am hoping that some text analysis tools I would like in Logos will be added for the sake of Noet.
I can understand that. My thinking was along the lines of...Your library is indexing.................................................................
Rosie Perera said:Admit it you liked it.
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MJ. Smith said:
I would rather see a way to "switch libraries"
Is there a way to make this suggestion clear to Logos? It is confusing to me to figure out what they are doing. I know they are expanding their offerings beyond religious titles, but it is unclear to me what our libraries are going to look like without better organization options.
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Mark first you need to define what you mean by better organisation options. At this point I have no idea what you mean and nor would Logos.
Mark said:MJ. Smith said:I would rather see a way to "switch libraries"
Is there a way to make this suggestion clear to Logos? It is confusing to me to figure out what they are doing. I know they are expanding their offerings beyond religious titles, but it is unclear to me what our libraries are going to look like without better organization options.
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I was more specific on page two of this thread. MJ seems to have picked up on it.
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I like the idea of 'switches' but I think it's naive to think a user isn't going to have to 'define' the switch using tags or collections. There's quite a bit of overlap between groups of books.
Frankly the easy solution (but not good enough probably for Mark or MJ's ideas) is fgh's request to 'remember' the library setting from session to session.
I have all my books tagged. The unclean ones are carefully tagged to remain in the Herodian portion of my library, next to the moneychangers. The remaining clean books are allowed to procede into my main area, where they can safely be read without fear of touching the 'unclean'.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Brainstorming produces many poor ideas, but one brilliant one eventually.
In Firefox, when a url is displayed, a star in the url box is yellow if I have it already bookmarked and remains white if it is not bookmarked. Would be very helpful as I go through my library to know if a resource that I open up is already tagged without me going into the resource information area to know the answer. Perhaps it already is possible without doing that. But if it is, I dont know about it. Would also be nice to know immediately if the resource i open up is part of a collection I have already put together. It also would be nice if making a collection was much easier than it is today...such as a drag and drop operation.
I was not asking or suggesting (apologies if I worded things poorly) that everything could be done by Logos without me doing anything. You are correct, Denise, that would be naive. But certainly there are categories that can be preset. After all, there is a NOET Library already and a LOEB Library and a CIVIL WAR Library, a VYRSO Library and even a VERBUM Library. There are already preset categories. Would be nice to be able to click and switch from one Library to another in the LOGOS program, or to search everything (we can do that now) or just one of the LIbraries.
Well I know I will continue to be crucified for such ideas. Which is fine. I realize they are not really necessary. If I had 8500 books and magazines in my home, it would be my responsibility to put them each on a shelf where I would want them to be and where I could find things. Yes, I could hire someone to do that work for me as well. But most likely it is naive to think that LOGOS should work on ways to make a large and growing library more manageable.
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No plans to crucify you, Mark. And what you're noting I think is commonly held among Logosians (the library being hard to manage).
I guess maybe I'm more comfortable with tagging ... I did mine in an afternoon (about 3,500 or so). I'm used to Libronix using text strings to get common groups of books and then wholesale tagging. Then later I break categories down further as I see fit.
But I'd definitely agree collectionists (vs us taggers) must really be miffed they didn't get a column in the library this round. And I'm a bit mystified why a company whose competitive angle is 'large libraries' did so little to the library this round.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Is it possible in Library view to right click on the TAG column and immediately tag a resource that I have not yet tagged? That certainly would be helpful.
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