why's Today's Logos's "Saints" name is different from what I heard from Radio.

Page 1 of 1 (18 items)
This post has 17 Replies | 0 Followers

Posts 538
Fasil | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, May 30 2014 8:57 AM

From what I heard today - Saint of Today is: "St. Joan of Arc" whereas In my Logos it's Pope Saint Felix. why is the difference? Is there something wrong in my Logos?

Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 9:55 AM

There are several "lists" for bringing to mind a Saint of the Day.  It would depend on what you are looking at.  In the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church Pope Saint Felix is listed in the old calendar on May 30.  I think that is the note you see in Verbum.  He died on December 30 which most times (not always) is the memorial for a person considered a Saint.  In this case, it appears there is no option in the current Latin Rite calendar (for English speaking countries anyway) for either Joan of Arc or Felix on this date nor for December 30 for Felix.  Both dates are open on the current calendar.

I don't think anything is wrong.  Verbum is showing you some interesting additional information.  It should show an asterisk on the home page for you.

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 10:38 AM

Joan of Arc is definitely today, but not celebrated everywhere. And she seems completely missing from Logos' Saints resource, in spite of the timely shipping of the Joan of Arc Collection (2 vols.) earlier this week.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 5321
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 11:32 AM

Fasil:
Is there something wrong in my Logos?

I believe Logos Saints are based primarily on Bulters Lives of the Saints, which was primarily written by a man who died 15th of May, 1773... I believe Logos version is slightly updated, as it's printing is from 1903, but most (or at least many) Canonizations after 1770's are going to be missing. Joan as you see from the quip below was not considered a saint officially till 1920.

A revision of her trial by an appellate court appointed by Pope *Callistus III in 1456 declared her to have been unjustly condemned. Canonized on 9 May 1920 by *Benedict XV as a holy maiden, she is the second patron of France. Feast day, 30 May. --F. L. Cross and Elizabeth A. Livingstone, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (Oxford;  New York: Oxford University Press, 2005), 884.

So in the end what is wrong with Logos is it is based on some out dated works. Liturgical Press has offered an updated lives of the saints starting in the late 1990s but even this is out of date because Pope John Paul II Canonized such a large number. 

-Dan

Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 12:25 PM

fgh:

Joan of Arc is definitely today ...

Can you post a reference?  I'm not seeing it in the Ordo or in the Liturgical Calendar on the USCCB website for today.  Perhaps a different ecclesial jurisdiction?

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 12:46 PM

Dan Francis:
I believe Logos Saints are based primarily on Bulters Lives of the Saints

Disappointing.

Steve:
Can you post a reference?

Wikipedia.Big Smile

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 1:01 PM

fgh:

Steve:
Can you post a reference?

Wikipedia.Big Smile

I was trying to respond to the OP on why Felix was displayed in Verbum and not Joan of Arc.  I understand the history of Joan and her death on May 30.  However, Wikipedia is not the source of the official church calendar.  The references to the General Roman Calendars in the US that I provided do not have Joan of Arc for any day of the year currently.  This is probably why it is not showing in Verbum.  Felix was officially listed on the old calendar.

I was hoping a reference to a Church Calendar could be listed.  Then many of us would be more knowledgeable about the variations in Church liturgical celebrations.

Can you post a calendar reference?  Perhaps France (if there is one available on-line)?  Another jurisdiction?

Posts 36305
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 1:13 PM

I suppose you expect me to answer?Wink

Traditional Franciscan Calendar

30. St. Joan of Arc, Virgin, Franciscan Third Order Secular, d. 1431, King Saint Fernando III, Confessor, Franciscan Third Order Secular, d. 1252

Traditional General Latin calendar

30. St. Felix I, Pope, Martyr

http://www.roman-catholic-saints.com/saint-calendars.html

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 2:06 PM

Steve:
Wikipedia is not the source of the official church calendar

No, but the official church calendar is hopefully the source for Wikipedia. All saints have a date, whether or not any particular diocese actually officially celebrates them. The Oxford Dictionary of Saints and several Swedish books on saints all list her for May 30, as does my 1928 Diario Romano (bought for the steep price of about 30 cents.Big Smile). 

You are mixing up two different things: the Lectionary part of the Home Page, which should show the US calendar (as long as that is the only one we've got), and the Saints part of the Home Page, which ought to show all saints celebrated on that date. For now, Wikipedia is probably a far better source for the latter.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 36305
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 2:21 PM

See http://community.logos.com/forums/p/78286/548058.aspx for a discussion on completeness - with a sample entry of

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 36305
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 2:25 PM

There are several issues here:

  • denominational calendars - Anglican, Lutheran, Moravian, Orthodox
  • historical calendars - traditional vs. current
  • calendar by rite
  • religious order calendars
  • geographic adaptations of the universal calendar

I'd like the ability (eventually) to choose the saints calendar in the same way I chose my lectionaries.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 489
LogosEmployee
Louis St. Hilaire | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 4:36 PM

Dan Francis:

Fasil:
Is there something wrong in my Logos?

I believe Logos Saints are based primarily on Bulters Lives of the Saints

It's based on all the resources you see linked in the "Further Reading" lists. This includes what's on the modern General Roman and U.S. calendars (via the lectionary), but we haven't yet succeeded in acquiring and aligning a good modern collection of lives that covers the entire year (like Liturgical Press's). This would get us much closer to covering at least the most well-known saints (though we'd be still be a long way from "completeness" as MJ has pointed out).

Posts 538
Fasil | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 5:09 PM

Hope to see Current and Updated Saintof the Day in My Logos home page. Currently it's lost my trust. Hope to see an easy fixed.

Posts 36305
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 5:30 PM

Fasil:
Currently it's lost my trust.

Why? The lectionary correctly shows that no saint is celebrated in the USA version of the Universal Calendar. The Saints section shows a major saint who may be celebrated on the day - in this case from the traditional calendar. An asterisk indicates that it is an added entry. That seems logical to me.

Fasil:
Hope to see an easy fixed.

I don't think there is anything to fix now that we understand what the asterisk means. What do you think the "fix" should be?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 538
Fasil | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 6:46 PM

Here is my point:

Everyday I listen to EWTN and of course "The Saint of The Day". Today I was curios to learn more about" St. Joan ", which is the "Saint of the Day". Knowing to have Verbum Capstone++, I went to my Logos and found out Pope Felix to be the "Saint of the Day". Even when I searched the Name Joan it's not there.Then what do u guess I would think about my Logos?. . . . . It's not full and . . .not Current. What do u think I would think when I hear the Saint of the day next time on EWTN? . . .At least I want to see and learn more exactly what the CC is talking about today. I think that meWink

Posts 5321
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 7:21 PM

Louis St. Hilaire:
It's based on all the resources you see linked in the "Further Reading" lists. This includes what's on the modern General Roman and U.S. calendars (via the lectionary), but we haven't yet succeeded in acquiring and aligning a good modern collection of lives that covers the entire year (like Liturgical Press's). This would get us much closer to covering at least the most well-known saints (though we'd be still be a long way from "completeness" as MJ has pointed out).

Thanks for the clarification... 

-dan

Posts 36305
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 7:21 PM

Fasil:
Today I was curios to learn more about" St. Joan ", which is the Saint of Day.

Which is why I don't trust EWTN - I'm sure they chose St. Joan because she's popular and well known - and they didn't tell you it was their personal choice. Logos, in contrast, chose St. Felix I who used to be on the general calendar and hence has a stronger liturgical history and marked it to say it was a matter of choice.

Fasil:
It's not full and

There is essentially nothing that is full - the closest comes from Belgium but I've no idea how many volumes they have finished. http://saints.sqpn.com/29-november/ is the most complete I know online but I know sites I can use to supplement its list.

Who will actually be celebrated? In most Catholic parishes, probably no one. But if the parish is named after a saint listed for this date, that's who they'll celebrate. But there are many Catholics who are reading a saint-a-day devotional who will get a saint chosen in a manner similar to EWTN or Verbum.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 30 2014 7:40 PM

Sorry my comments weren't helpful.  Tongue Tied

Until a more satisfactory solution comes along for your use, you can open the Book of Saints which I believe would be in your Verbum library.  It's organized alphabetically, but if you do a search (find) on May 30 you would be able to scan through the 20+ Saints and Blesseds for this date to include Joan of Arc.  You could do that for any date.  The Roman Martyrology has similar information, but not as complete, and is organized by date.

There are thousands of Saints in the Church...many identified for each day of the year.  Beyond the General/Universal Calendar the ecclesial community or jurisdiction, interests or spirituality of a particular group would dictate what comes to the fore.

MJ has provided some useful external sources.

 

Page 1 of 1 (18 items) | RSS