The sham that is biblia.com

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This post has 44 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 151
revrari | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jul 25 2014 4:27 AM

I have used biblia.com for  some time because I have a Chromebook and need to access my Logos books from there. The whole site is a sham in my opinion, designed by Logos to be not too helpful so as to force users into using its full scale software. Here are just a few of the sham features:

*  No highlighting

* Double pane regardless

* No customization options

* No way of prioritising resources

* The constant promotion of the Faithlife Bible

* The adverts

* The inability to hide the left pane

* The inability to take notes.

* Inability to access morphological information in databases one has paid for.

* No way of linking Greek and Hebrew words to lexica.

All in all this is one of the worst offerings Logos ever conceived.

Luoar

 

 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 4:35 AM

luoar:
The whole site is a sham in my opinion, designed by Logos to be not too helpful so as to force users into using its full scale software

Another way of looking at it is that it provides simple access to most resources when not near a computer you own. In that regard I have found it useful but wouldn't want to use it as the only means of accessing my library.

luoar:
* Double pane regardless

You can get a single pane by "stretching"

Posts 116
Paolo russo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 5:23 AM

Being a user of other biblical sw, I appreciate so much Biblia.com.

I can't access in the same way from a remote PC my books in the other sws.

Posts 113
Nicholas van Oudtshoorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 5:42 AM

I certainly wouldn't call it a sham. For what it is, it is quite useful. (Bible.faithless.com is even better than biblia.... it seems that that gets most of the love!)

Would I love, even pay, for some of those features to come to the web? Yes. Personally, I'd like to see a roadmap of what they're working on for their web apps. I suspect getting more features is more likely with a please rather than anger. So here goes: please bring your web apps up to par with at least your mobile apps!

Posts 113
Nicholas van Oudtshoorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 5:43 AM

Oops... meant faithlife, not faithless! Silly phone auto corrected! :-)

Posts 151
revrari | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 6:29 AM

Freudian slip?

 

 

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 6:34 AM

For the purpose you've stated, it appears you just need a little patience.  Soon Chromebooks will be able to access Android mobile apps then your request for parity will be handled.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/25/google-to-bring-android-apps-to-the-chromebook/

Why should Logos invest in developing this when Google is already on the path?

Posts 113
Nicholas van Oudtshoorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 7:07 AM

luoar:
Freudian slip?

I must have one of those atheist phones! :-P

Posts 8347
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 7:26 AM

I remember the day I was forced to buy the Logos5 software.  I was so angry.  Indeed I could stand it no longer and put it on eBay.  No one would even bid for it.  It's almost like they thought the software was free.

It's interesting how us customers can get so angry over free software, demand new features for free, and then chat about when the next unbelievable sale will be.

Ah, it's so good to be a Logos customer.   I always sigh with my other Bible software companies, when they want 'money'.


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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 8:07 AM

 

luoar:

...designed by Logos to be not too helpful so as to force users into using its full scale software.

I object to the titling of this thread and especially to your assertion of motives and such towards Logos. Before they need to say so, let me point it out in clear language:

  • Logos has no obligation at all towards you or anybody to design, implement, maintain, operate and enhance something like http://biblia.com and http://bible.faithlife.com 
  • You have not paid for biblia.com internet access to your resources and should be grateful for it rather than complaining
  • Your choice of a substandard device for accessing your library is your choice and you bear the consequences of it - nowhere does Logos advertise that its full set of features run on chromebook (or C64 or Palm or Cray supercomputers for that matter - just wait, before long even someone with a Windos phone will ask for an app Wink  )
  • Probably the design of biblia.com predates the availability of Chromebooks by years

That said, I nevertheless want to comment on a few of your remarks.

  • Logos' current implementation of Highlighting is too compex for Biblia and for export from the desktop software. There are a couple of threads discussing this. My wish for Biblia would be that Logos design a "simple highlight" (possibly letting us choose one existing style which would reflect this, such as "Solid Yellow") that carries over throughout all usage scenarios. Amazon, for example, lets one choose highlighting (from four colours solid) in some applications but displays all highlights in the same form in others.   
  • The double pane can be reduced to single, as has been told (I personally use "switch to mobile view" but actually like the double pane). And which pane is left or right then becomes meaningless, as you select your resources to display
  • Since biblia doesn't provide all the features of the application, I don't see where customization or prioritization of resources would come into play - and since lexica are organized by lemmata (and lexicons by lemmas, or was that vice versa?), it's not really too difficult to look up something in the second pane. Since each pane may hold several tabs, you can click it away when you don't need it and have it back fast.
  • I don't mind seeing an ad for the Faithlife Study Bible in biblia - after all, the ads in the forum are more intrusive and I still keep hanging around here a bit [your mileage may vary...] - and I think the FSB package is a really generous offering by Logos. And since biblia may reach many users who don't own a library (and probably is designed with their needs in view also), it's a good place to tell them about it.  
  • You are able to take notes to your bible - Community Notes, to be exact (you yourself may be a secret community of one member if you value privacy). I only wish Logos would extend that feature to non-bibles. 

Maybe it's just me, but I find the interface of biblia much easier to use than that of the Android apps (and if you ever dig your way through Logos' listing of available sites and offerings, considering that the really unsuccessful things probably are buried in the past, you will find that biblia doesn't even come close to a "worst ever offering"). But maybe Google will offer Android apps for your device soon, and then you can try for yourself.

 

Running Logos 7 latest (beta) version

Posts 151
revrari | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 8:28 AM

Thank you for your passionate defense of Logos' biblia.com. I cannot agree that Logos is free of obligation to its customers, nor is it free of obligation in terms of maintaining the highest ethical business practices. As for your claim that the Chromebook is an inferior device, I cannot agree with that either. I alerted Logos to the limitations of biblia years ago, and aside from fixing the ability to find resources, which initially was completely lacking, it has done nothing to improve its online suite. As far as the double pane is concerned, if one sets it to single pane it automatically reverts to double when a new window is opened since there is no possibly of customization. The ability to highlight is relatively easy to implement, but Logos have avoided it. And why should I only be able to take notes in Bibles, and then only public notes at that? On the whole, I do not think you have substantively answered any of my concerns. 

 

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 9:12 AM

luoar:
I cannot agree that Logos is free of obligation to its customers, nor is it free of obligation in terms of maintaining the highest ethical business practices.

It seems over the top to say Logos is unethical to not provide you with extras for free (or at any price.) Under that reasoning Logos is unethical to not have a Linux version. (Not to mention Accordance, BibleWorks, WordSearch and others are just as unethical for the same omission,)

I do not expect any more from Logos than what I have paid for. Biblia and Faithlife are just wonderful freebies.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 9:56 AM

luoar:
The whole site is a sham in my opinion, designed by Logos to be not too helpful so as to force users into using its full scale software.

This makes no sense. 

Firstly, Biblia is not designed or advertised as a replacement to the full software. The site is listed as having a limited feature set (See the list of features here: https://www.logos.com/biblia). There is no deception or expectation of higher functionality.

Secondly, the full software is free and has always been the main platform. There is no need to "push" users to use it.  Biblia has never been marketed as a replacement for the main Logos app.  The mobile apps have many of the same deficiencies.  The desktop app is the control center, and the other apps (mobile, web) provide a view into the library, but not full control.

luoar:
I cannot agree that Logos is free of obligation to its customers, nor is it free of obligation in terms of maintaining the highest ethical business practices.

What is the obligation that you are charging them with violating? They have no obligation to make Biblia.com have all the features of the main software, any more than they have an obligation to make the mobile apps do the same thing.

I don't use Biblia for many reasons including ones you have mention, though mainly it's because I can use the iOS app.

It would certainly expand Logos' market if they merged Biblia.com and bible.faithlife com and expanded their features.  I hope they do it, but I also know that everything is based on priorities and manpower.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Moving Logos between systems / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad T520

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 10:33 AM

Super.Tramp:
It seems over the top to say Logos is unethical to not provide you with extras for free (or at any price.) Under that reasoning Logos is unethical to not have a Linux version. (Not to mention Accordance, BibleWorks, WordSearch and others are just as unethical for the same omission,)

Wordsearch and Accordance function on Linux using WINE, for clarification. I believe Logos would love their software to function under WINE but it has yet to do so from what I have heard. Logos like the other software companies mentioned are under no obligation to do anything. I am glad that Logos has Bible.faithlife.com and Bliblia.com. Although neither are adequate for daily use they are good in a pinch.

-Dan

Posts 151
revrari | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 10:35 AM

Please pay attention to the words I use. I did not say that Logos has acted in an unethical way. In response to a previous poster who said the Logos had no obligations to anyone, I presented a contrary perspective. I said that they do have an obligation to their customers, and an obligation to maintain high ethical standards. Perhaps one of the key words that has arisen in response to my post is "free". Perhaps Logos should charge for a better service. I for one would be willing to pay for it. 

 

 

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 10:44 AM

luoar:
Please pay attention to the words I use. I did not say that Logos has acted in an unethical way.

Your use of the word "sham" does exactly that.  It implies fraud or that Logos has lied about the capabilities of biblia.com.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sham#Noun

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Moving Logos between systems / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad T520

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 10:53 AM

I think we're going to have to nail Logos for unusually good marketing text.  I'm usually pretty good at imagining improper language in Logos marketing materials. Unfortunately https://www.logos.com/biblia seems to be spiffy clean.

I was really hoping for 'Do everything you can do on your Logos5, on Biblia.com!!' or 'Read every book you own!!'  (admittedly they got pretty close to crossing the 'line' on the second issue).  I'm still licking my wounds on OliveTree, missing half my library.


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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 10:59 AM

Denise:
I was really hoping for 'Do everything you can do on your Logos5, on Biblia.com!!' or 'Read every book you own!!'  (admittedly they got pretty close to crossing the 'line' on the second issue).

I looked around for marketing speak that might convince someone that Biblia was all that, or even more generic statements about platform independence, and I was ready to raise flags if I found something like that.  But as far as I can tell they've not said anything like that.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Moving Logos between systems / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad T520

Posts 1613
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 11:02 AM

Can Logos add "parallel resources" in biblia please?

Posts 151
revrari | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 11:36 AM

Thank you David for your comments. I look forward to the new developments.

Luoar

 

 

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