Logos has overtaken Accordance for good

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Posts 1753
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 12:57 PM

Dan had me at um...not hello...but "Josh's context".  You are spot on.  Logos 5.x for windows should anticipate being in a Bible study need to get there quickly mode with not just a type into window (sorry its a time lagging nuisance and I do not always have a keyboard with me) but a pointer type interface.  Logos on android does have it...port it over to Windows please...maybe even in the fairly useless Windows Store app please.  Thanks.

Logos rocks!...and so does Dan!

Posts 94
Ben Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 12 2014 3:32 PM

Great thread and thanks for the info Nathan. I read from a growing number that Accordance is superior in dealing with the Biblical text itself. Is there anything specifically w/the Bible texts and/or the english texts that Accordance does but Logos doesn't or is it simply that it's just better and easier in this area? For example how would Accordance compare with Logos's morph, clause search? Logos's syntax search is a bit cumbersome (not that I have a better idea), but would be especially interested if Accordance had this feature and if so, how does it compare? Appreciate your input as well as others! (And hope to see you "in the (learnlogos.com) webinar" tomorrow morning.)

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 12 2014 5:09 PM

Bened ... you might consider a couple other threads; one involves Accordance, the other regarding Logos vs Bibleworks discusses some of Logos' remaining challenges:

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/68164.aspx?PageIndex=1 

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/88514/622960.aspx 

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 160
David Medina | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 12 2014 11:08 PM

While I do agree with your overall conclusion that Logos is a stronger set of tools than Accordance, I do not necessarily agree with some of your individual conclusion.

I do have and use both for different reasons. I am glad that have are different approaches to bible software.  

The way I define both is that Accordance study mentality is analog while Logos is digital. While Logos emphasizes accumulation of resources to be searched, Accordance emphasis is in carefully selecting the right resources. 

There is no doubt that Accordance searches are faster than Logos, regardless of the machine, both desktop and mobile app. Specially on older machines Accordance shines in that department. Accordance shines also in a clean and straightforward interface. Those who do language studies do appreciate that.

While there is no doubt that Logos is king in the resources department, Accordance have every essential and important resource available. 

I do agree that Logos seems better suited for the working pastor while Accordance seems to attract more of the seminary and scholar type user. 

One area that Logos is much better than Accordance is on the note and highlight areas. More flexible and powerful.

I do agree that Accordance app needs some work but it is not dependent from a internet connection like Logos is. Still Accordance app is faster than Logos app. Plus, Accordance app footprint is much smaller than Logos. I have every resource I own, Advance plus some extra resources including the WBC and it is only 2.9GB on my iPad while with Logos I don have as nearly as many resources installed in the iPad and it has 6.3GB.

While it is nice with Logos that I don't have to have everything installed in the iPad to have access to it, I do need to be connected to the internet to have access and to use all the guides. While I prefer Logos app while connected to the web and when I am using notes and highlights, when I don't have internet connection I rather use Accordance. For example, the look up function in Logos app without internet is useless while the Instant Display in Accordance app rocks. So both companies have to do some work on their mobile apps. Same with collections, you don't have access to them unless you are connected.

I do believe that overall, Logos is a much better tool and more forward thinking than Accordance. Logos is not afraid of innovating while Accordance believe their way is the best way and don't seem that open to reinvent the wheel. Logos tagging of resources seem to be more extensive and deeper. I personally love the guides in Logos. But Logos can be a bit intimidating at first. You have to take some courses in order to really leverage Logos power. 

As far as support I would give Accordance support 5 our 5 stars. I think they have the best support by far. I would give Logos 3.5 our 5 star. Not bad but not stellar either. There has been to many emails gone unanswered or answered after 48 hours by Logos. Fortunately I haven't had any major problems either software. 

One support example would be enough... When I first got Accordance I was a bit frustrated because I did not understood the software. Within 24 hours I had one of the owners in a video conference with me sharing screen and helping me. Yes, I am sure their user base is smaller compared to Logos, but still, they were there for me when I needed them. For some that is more important that guides, databases and the rest.

What would I chose today if I had none? I would choose Logos for sure because it gives me what I like.

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 12:08 AM

David Medina:
What would I chose today if I had none? I would choose Logos for sure because it gives me what I like.

For me it might be difficult. Accordance has all the New Interpreter's products.. When it comes to mobile except highlighting texts (Accordance iOS has terrible selection options currently) it is much faster and greater pleasure to read from on my iPad and no internet connection is needed for anything but syncing and installing when you want to by pass your computer. I am not saying that Logos is horrible in the Mobile department just not ideal (but neither is ACC). All the core works I would want most are in ACC. I would hate to give up the wonderful works i have in Logos, but ACC would be enough for me and looking at start up costs would likely send me into ACC arms. $50 vs. $300 is a big difference for start packages.

-Dan

Posts 2337
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 6:19 AM

I think it would be nice for Logos to offer discounts like A-Company.  Say for Overseas Service, etc.  Acc is fast on searches. Fast.  But the programs are hardly neck and neck--Logos has pulled ahead too far for me to look back. 

Posts 94
Ben Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 9:24 AM

Posts 94
Ben Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 9:27 AM

Thanks so much, Denise! And very helpful posts David and Dan!

I was a BW and Logos combo user up until BW came out with Mac version but mine crashed and ran into a hassle reinstalling on Mac and haven't gone to the trouble to reinstall it. More of a addendum than a necessity as Logos has progressed so much w/original language tools. Would really like to see how folks who use Accordance here would compare its capability to morph and syntax search vs. Logos. I'm way too vested in Logos to turn back now and would never want to!

But if I can use Accordance to supplement/enhance exegesis in sermon prep and personal study w/Logos (i.e. in ways that Logos can't or not as comparatively well to justify the purchase), then would strongly consider purchasing text related tools. I've seen several Accordance podcasts and Youtubes about basics of the program but can't find any where actual morph and/or syntax work's being done. Kudos to Logos for all the training videos in addition to Morris Proctor and John Fallahee (who goes into more depth re: syntax than Morris does in his training vids, especially w/syntax search). Also, great advanced free training (syntax especially) by Logos on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7pYzNJpo8Q. Would be good to see this level of syntax training examples from Accordance). 

Grateful for all of the feedback!

Posts 1558
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 9:55 AM

I started on PCs, so Bibleworks (and then Logos) were the natural choices. Now I'm on Apple, and still using both. 

This criticism below is highly dependent on one's needs and perspective.

"Accordance offers very few resources in comparison with Logos. Accordance has continued to cater for a very narrow niche market, and has not ever expanded its vision for pastors."

Some of us very much wish Logos would quit churning out so much pastoral material (a narrow niche market) and get more Accordance-like and academic materials. They've improved much, but Accordance still offers some things we non-pastors have asked for for years. I'd love to recommend Logos to my academic friends (not Seminarians), but usually don't because there's no package that appeals (RIP Original Languages) and Accordance has these other materials (like Carta) and Jewish packages/bundles that might appeal to, you know, actual Jews. 


Or at least, they used to have such packages. I can't find it at the moment. Haven't been to the site for a while. 

I do see Gunther Plaut's Commentary on the Torah, a standard in many synagogues. 

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 160
David Medina | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 12:19 PM

Bened save your money. For Sermon preparation Accordance will not offer you anything you already have in Logos except search speed. And to make that speed mean something you will need to purchase many titles in Accordance, even duplicate some, to make it worth your time using it. Instead of focusing in Bible study you will be deciding which one to use.

I wish I would have follow John Fallahee advice and just stayed with Logos. But I didn't and I retreat it. I have wasted money into Accordance instead of investing in logos. 

Dan make the point that Accordance has all the New Interpreter stuff, but I don't think that in itself is a good enough compelling reason to buy Accordance. Plus what you get for $49 in Accordance don't even come close to be usable for a pastor. Let be real, the main reason we buy software is to have access and search resources. Any system you buy has to have resources to make it worthwhile. a $49 Accordance does not offer enough to really compare it to Logos entry level. 

I would say that if you have Accordance you have reasons to also getting Logos, but if you have Logos there is no compelling reasons to also get Accordance. 

The depth of Logos tagging and guides just blows Accordance out of the water, unless you do study the analog way, then, Accordance is an option.

And if anyone wants to buy Accordance from me I would be willing to sell what I have to them. Just PM me.

Posts 2337
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 5:43 PM

There are so many options to customize--I finally built my own in MS Access and it does some custom searches and analysis nothing else will do.  It cost 2 days to make it.  Otherwise, it was free.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 6:19 PM

Dan Francis:
and looking at start up costs would likely send me into ACC arms. $50 vs. $300 is a big difference for start packages.

This is by design.  It takes Accordance 6 newbies to equal one Logos newbie. If each newbie makes a short 10 minute support call, Accordance is in  it for 1 hour to every 10 minutes Logos is. Then there is the fact the Logos user has shown he is willing to spend serious money for his Bible software.

Yeah...It is no accident. It is by design.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 6:44 PM

Super.Tramp:
Yeah...It is no accident. It is by design.

I do know... but it is frustrating to have people wanting to get a start needing such a large outlay. I am not saying Logos base packages are not worth it just some people need a cheaper way to get in sometimes. And while Logos has some backend ways to do this nothing that is easy from the get go. My debate is not that Logos is doing something wrong, but that many Christians do not want to put out a larger amount, I feel it is reasonable, others may not. By having a $50 package it becomes fully accessible to get people's feet wet. Perhaps Logos is right to have it's $300 start point. I apparently am odd. I started by getting a few works and then eventually got a package. If I had thought or been lead to believe I needed to layout a $300 investment before using Logos I likely never would have. I hope all those like me discover the NAS collection or the Catholic Catechism collection. To get there way into Logos for It truly is a very good system. Accordance is fine too, but I do know that there are more expansion options in Logos.

-Dan

Posts 1130
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 7:14 PM

Perhaps a Faithlife upgrade package is in order. Several public domain bibles such as the KJV, KJVA, ASV and the ESV (Crossways is giving these away on Amazon and through other Bible software companies, seems like Logos could negotiate a low price). Some type of basic Original Language Dictionary Strong's or the 3 Volume DBL (Logos owns it). The New Naves Topical Bible, Logos Maps. Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. Perhaps a basic bible intro or handbook. Finally an English dictionary.

It would be nice if Logos added Strong's number to the ESV. Perhaps this package should contain the NASV95. I am sure Logos would not include their reverse interlinear dataset.

Posts 265
Gary Osborne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 7:53 PM

David Medina:

Bened save your money. For Sermon preparation Accordance will not offer you anything you already have in Logos except search speed.

While I love Logos, I beg to differ with the comment above.  Being a conservative Pentecostal pastor (as opposed to a Charismatic/Charismaniac) there are two resources that Accordance has that are invaluable for me when preparing sermons and lessons.  I've begged Logos for years to include these, but so far my pleadings have fallen on deaf ears.  They are 1) The Fire Bible (notes, articles and charts) and 2) The Full Life Bible Commentary of the New Testament.  Both are quite scholarly and vital for me day in and day out.  They are so important that I finally gave in and bought an entry level Accordance package just so I could get those two resources.  Technically they have a third resource that Logos, for some unknown reason, also doesn't carry anymore.  I'm talking about the Adam Clarke Commentary on the Whole Bible. 

Come on Logos, get these three resources and I'm set for life.  No more wandering eyes for me, looking at competitors' programs.  Sigh...  Smile

Posts 94
Ben Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 7:58 PM

Thanks for the advice, David. 

The disappointing Accordance demo and no-return policy leaves little motivation for one w/almost 8k books and 14 years in Logos to invest elsewhere. You'd think w/a demo that only runs for 60 min at a time (really) they'd trot out the dog and load it so you'd be missing Accordance when it shut down. But not the case. Just seeing James White whiz around on Accordance w/Comfort's textual commentary open (Logos doesn't offer it -- which mystifies me) w/all multi-text hover/highlighting just made me wonder a bit w/doing text work. The main feature I know Accordance beats Logos is text comparison. I can put up multiple translations and link them, do sympathetic highlighting but that's as far as it'll go w/regular display to compare w/Acc (and not Logos' barebones text comparison display.) Otherwise, haven't seen it yet. Have heard things, but haven't seen anything.

But, you're right re: tagging, searching features. I've got layouts and collections, etc per Fallahee's DVDs w/some Morris advice mixed in.  Btw, w/all due respect to the BW9 brother earlier in the thread, I did reload my BW9 on Mac today and I spent about 10 minutes, smiled and thanked the Lord for Logos. Just no comparison unless you've got to do some ultra-esoteric search (I learned in seminary that all men aren't created equal. Second and third year Greek tends to separate the profs from the preachers Wink.) Still have to restart BW9 to change font size(!). (BW, floppy disk installs and all, got me thru last two years of seminary '93-95.)

Grateful for the Lord's provision then -- and especially now.

Posts 160
David Medina | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 9:47 PM

Bened, unless I am not understanding what you mean by text comparison, to be honest, I do not like the way Accordance does text comparison at all because I cannot compare text because it takes text out. 

For example, if I select John 5:1-5 in the ESV first then add as parallel the NKJV and the NRSV Accordance will eliminate verse four from all Bibles even though it is include in the NKJV. Then, I cannot really see the differences (See image). Their core users love it but I don't really get it. For me is not useful at all. They have tried to explain their reasoning but honestly I don't get it. 

I much prefer the way Logos does it by graphically showing me the difference. To me is much more useful in my study (see image)

I do agree with you that it would be nice to have the Comfort's textual commentary in Logos. That and the Mounce NT and that I recently picked up WBC at a good price are the only reason i keep Accordance around. But if I had to do it all over again, I would not do it as those resources alone although very nice are not that indispensable to me to justify my investment of $1k.

Seriously, if someone wants my Accordance I will give a good deal. I can use the money to pay off what I owe Logos :)

Posts 160
David Medina | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 13 2014 10:20 PM

Dan, I think you are comparing apples with oranges. Logos and Accordance Starter packs are not in the same level.

Accordance Starter pack at $49 is a bare bone Accordance with only one main modern Bibles, the ESV and then the KJV. And only those two are tagged. Commentaries it only offer two one volume commentary and two basic dictionary Easton and Eerdmans.

Logos starter packages has all the main Bible translation and all are tagged (ESV, NKJB, KJV, NASB, NIV, NLT, The Message, NRSV, NCB and Good news (and others). It has the full Matthew henry Commentary and not just the condensed version.

And so on.

You truly need to invest between $199 and $299 with Accordance to get something substanctial. That said, I do agree that Logos Starter Package should be cheaper but even that price should not deter anyone as there is payment plans that allows anyone to get that and much more easily. To be fair, no matter what you choose you will need to spend much more to have a essential library of resources. 

In my case I currently have Logos 5 Silver with many, many extra resources and Accordance Advance with several extra tools (resources). 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 14 2014 5:28 AM

David Medina:

Accordance Starter pack at $49 is a bare bone Accordance with only one main modern Bibles, the ESV and then the KJV. And only those two are tagged. Commentaries it only offer two one volume commentary and two basic dictionary Easton and Eerdmans. (...)

You truly need to invest between $199 and $299 with Accordance to get something substanctial. That said, I do agree that Logos Starter Package should be cheaper but even that price should not deter anyone as there is payment plans that allows anyone to get that and much more easily. 

Just to add: Keith has done a thread comparing what you get when investing $50 into both, see http://community.logos.com/forums/t/89408.aspx 

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 2040
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 14 2014 6:16 AM

I get commentaries such as Hermeneia or New Interpreter's Bible cheaper (H) or for the same price (NIB) in Accordance and they are better tagged. It's possible to easily transfer notes and highlightings from old Hermeneia Accordance modules to new or updated ones, see: Hermeneia Upgrade: How To?

Unlike Accordance Logos does have ICC and Continental Commentaries to complement H but I get better textual critical tools in Accordance, for example MT-LXX Parallel made by Tov, Comprehensive Bible, Comfort New Testament Text and Translation Commentary.

When it comes to general New Testament commentaries, Logos's strength is the Paideia series. But no other real strengths.

It's more fun to learn to use Accordance if You have an internet connection without a data cap (which I don't have) as there are many free podcasts, both about resources and the software. Fortunately I do have the Catholic Practicum videos in Logos.

Accordance resources are faster to organize in the library as sets are just a few modules (Logos lists every volume separately) and unlike Logos it's possible to leave the library open all the time if You want to.

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