Master Journal Bundle (1001 vols.) No Dynamic Pricing

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This post has 208 Replies | 11 Followers

Posts 182
David Sloan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 1:45 PM

Phil Gons:

We will notify everyone who has placed a pre-order so far to give them the chance to cancel if they don't approve of the price.

If we already pre-ordered it at one price, shouldn't that price be honored? I know our card was not charged, but is there not some form of agreement that Logos should honor here?

Posts 182
David Sloan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 1:48 PM

Phil Gons:

abondservant:
Surprised not to see the Southeastern Review in there - seems like it should be easy enough to get.

abondservant:

Thanks for the suggestions.

By the way, I created another thread with my suggestions, which are what I would consider the top 20 academic biblical studies journals: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/91539.aspx

Posts 622
Stephen Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 3:35 PM

Phil Gons:

Mark Smith:
For me a simple upgrade to all the Galaxie journals would do. Why not have a small bundle with just those offered? I do think there is very clear market interest in that.

We're exploring this.

Yes

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 8:18 PM

David Sloan:
If we already pre-ordered it at one price, shouldn't that price be honored? I know our card was not charged, but is there not some form of agreement that Logos should honor here?

We're not going to be able to ship the product in the state in which you ordered it. We'll most likely cancel all orders and invite you to reorder once we get all the details worked out. Sorry for the inconvenience.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 8:41 PM

Mike Pettit:
I cannot believe that you think that this is acceptable on any level, next time you are missing your targets why not increase the prices that people have authorised in the hope that people will not notice, after all it apparently does not really matter. Of course you can change your pricing before a contract has been entered into, but you cannot increase a credit card authorisation without explicit agreement. Here you are suggesting that implicit agreement is enough, this is not ethical and probably not even legal.

Mike, the very nature of dynamically priced Pre-Pubs is that the price is subject to change at any time without notice between when you place your pre-order and when the product ships. There are three things that can cause the price to change:

  1. Your ownership of included content increases by your purchasing something included in the product after you place your pre-order and before it ships. In this case, your price would decrease.
  2. Your ownership of included content decreases by your returning or transferring something included in the product after you place your pre-order and before it ships. In this case, your price would increase.
  3. The list price of one or more pieces within the collection changes. In this case, your price could increase or decrease depending on (1) whether the value increased or decreased and (2) whether you own it or not.

We spec'd the system to have all the appropriate disclaimers, so you'd be aware of the potential for your price to change. I'll have the team investigate to make sure those disclaimers were integrated appropriately.

In this case, many of the included items didn't have prices at all. Some had incorrect prices. The product was set up incorrectly, and I'm sorry it managed to ship in the state that it did. We're fixing that. Our current plan is to cancel all orders and invite everyone to re-place their pre-order.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 8:45 PM

Phil Gons:

Mark Smith:
For me a simple upgrade to all the Galaxie journals would do. Why not have a small bundle with just those offered? I do think there is very clear market interest in that.

We're exploring this.

We'll probably end up with four products, instead of one:

  1. Master Journal Bundle: virtually all journals we have that can be bundled together
  2. Theological Journal Bundle: theological journals more geared at the ETS audience; comparable to TJL, but including other theological journals not in TJL
  3. Academic Journal Bundle: academic journals more geared at the SBL audience
  4. TJL Upgrade Bundle: only journals that were a part of the TJL products

Would these four meet everyone's needs? I thought about a bundle for archaeology and another for ministry, but I don't think we have enough in those categories yet. Maybe in the future.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 8:47 PM

Keith Larson:
Question. If we don't purchase this bundle, will the volumes I already own still but updated?

Absolutely.

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 8:51 PM

Phil Gons:

Phil Gons:

Mark Smith:
For me a simple upgrade to all the Galaxie journals would do. Why not have a small bundle with just those offered? I do think there is very clear market interest in that.

We're exploring this.

We'll probably end up with four products, instead of one:

  1. Master Journal Bundle: virtually all journals we have that can be bundled together
  2. Theological Journal Bundle: theological journals more geared at the ETS audience; comparable to TJL, but including other theological journals not in TJL
  3. Academic Journal Bundle: academic journals more geared at the SBL audience
  4. TJL Upgrade Bundle: only journals that were a part of the TJL products

Would these four meet everyone's needs? I thought amount a bundle for archaeology and another for ministry, but I don't think we have enough in those categories yet. Maybe in the future.



I noticed Table Talk wasn't in the master bundle, assuming that was tied to licensing?

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 8:54 PM

Jonathan:
This isn't hard to understand. I can buy 6 YEARS worth of Galaxie updates for what you are charging me today. Sure you throw in a lot of other stuff, but Galaxie did this little by little every year as well. Galaxie also included certain recent journals (i.e. more valuable than old or public domain works) that you're missing in these sets.

It initially sounded to me like you thought that collection price wasn't appropriate for the value of content we're delivering. Now it sounds like your main concern is the price you have to pay just to get the TJL journals (which entails getting a bunch of stuff you don't want). You may be happy to know that we'll likely create a TJL Upgrade Bundle, which will include only journals that were in the TJL products. Will this meet your needs?

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 8:55 PM

abondservant:
I noticed Table Talk wasn't in the master bundle, assuming that was tied to licensing?

Good call. I'll have to check on that. We tended to exclude most magazines, unless they were more like journals. I think Tabletalk could make the cut. I'll have to check on the license to see if there are bundling restrictions. Thanks for the suggestion.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 8:59 PM

Phil Gons:

Phil Gons:

Mark Smith:
For me a simple upgrade to all the Galaxie journals would do. Why not have a small bundle with just those offered? I do think there is very clear market interest in that.

We're exploring this.

We'll probably end up with four products, instead of one:

  1. Master Journal Bundle: virtually all journals we have that can be bundled together
  2. Theological Journal Bundle: theological journals more geared at the ETS audience; comparable to TJL, but including other theological journals not in TJL
  3. Academic Journal Bundle: academic journals more geared at the SBL audience
  4. TJL Upgrade Bundle: only journals that were a part of the TJL products

Would these four meet everyone's needs? I thought about a bundle for archaeology and another for ministry, but I don't think we have enough in those categories yet. Maybe in the future.

looking forward to the new bundles. Works for me. 

Posts 1836
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 9:10 PM

Everett Headley:

I honestly find this disingenuous.  As a forum we have almost unanimously stated that we would rather have Galaxie's versions that nothing; we have stated what resources we would like to see; and there has been nothing but "wait and see" from Logos as far as communication goes.   If indeed your are attempting to give users what they are asking for why was there no release of TJL in the past two years to placate us in the meantime; why was there not more communication?  

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. All of this was about building the best possible journals in our format to enable lots of great new functionality we have planned. We decided it would be best to build them ourselves. Our rich tagging is becoming more important all the time, and without that tagging journals won't function in the software the way we want them to. We've been working hard to acquire licenses to all the journals in TJL, and we'll continue to do so. What additional communication were you looking for?

Posts 384
Danny Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 9:47 PM

Phil Gons:

Phil Gons:

We'll probably end up with four products, instead of one:

  1. Master Journal Bundle: virtually all journals we have that can be bundled together
  2. Theological Journal Bundle: theological journals more geared at the ETS audience; comparable to TJL, but including other theological journals not in TJL
  3. Academic Journal Bundle: academic journals more geared at the SBL audience
  4. TJL Upgrade Bundle: only journals that were a part of the TJL products

Would these four meet everyone's needs?.

This looks like a reasonable approach to me. It is great that you are adding other journals, but having options is important. This also enables an apples to apples comparison. Worst case we can continue with the journal selection that we currently have.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 11:38 PM

Phil Gons:

  • Master Journal Bundle: virtually all journals we have that can be bundled together
  • Theological Journal Bundle: theological journals more geared at the ETS audience; comparable to TJL, but including other theological journals not in TJL
  • Academic Journal Bundle: academic journals more geared at the SBL audience
  • TJL Upgrade Bundle: only journals that were a part of the TJL products

I really dislike the name of the Theological and Academic Journal Bundle, and it gives the impression that Theology is not Academic, or that the ETS audience not academic but the SBL audience is. (And, in my academic studies I used very few of the journals that would end up in the academic bundle - because you have very few flagship academic biblical studies journals apart from JBL).

I think it's good to make a distinction between these two groups, but I don't think the labelling is right. Unfortunately, I don't have a good suggestion as an alternative, as I understand why you've rejected many of the other options (such as a theology/biblical studies distinction).

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 4 2014 11:41 PM

Mark Barnes:

I really dislike the name of the Theological and Academic Journal Bundle, and it gives the impression that Theology is not Academic, or that the ETS audience not academic but the SBL audience is.

I think it's good to make a distinction between these two groups, but I don't think the labelling is right. Unfortunately, I don't have a good suggestion as an alternative, as I understand why you've rejected many of the other options (such as a theology/biblical studies distinction).

I agree it's not perfect and is an oversimplification, but I've not come up with anything better yet. Open to suggestions.

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 5 2014 12:46 AM

Phil, I have the perfect suggestions for names for these bundles. You only needed two differentiating names, right?:
Faith Journals
Scholarship Journals.
You heard it from me first! :-)

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Posts 999
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 5 2014 2:57 AM

Unix:

Phil, I have the perfect suggestions for names for these bundles. You only needed two differentiating names, right?:
Faith Journals
Scholarship Journals.
You heard it from me first! :-)

That is a dreadfully false dichotomy, as if scholarship should not be (and indeed for the most part is not if it is of much value) rooted in faith.

I personally do not mind Academic (i.e. out of the universities) and Theological (i.e. out of the Church), it reminds me of Scholastic and Monastic works in the Medieval period.

Posts 3192
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 5 2014 4:49 AM

the four group approach is fine, the master bundled did not suit me to much in there I probably never use.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 5 2014 9:33 AM

Phil Gons:

We'll probably end up with four products, instead of one:

  1. Master Journal Bundle: virtually all journals we have that can be bundled together
  2. Theological Journal Bundle: theological journals more geared at the ETS audience; comparable to TJL, but including other theological journals not in TJL
  3. Academic Journal Bundle: academic journals more geared at the SBL audience
  4. TJL Upgrade Bundle: only journals that were a part of the TJL products

Would these four meet everyone's needs?

I like having four or more products although, like others, I don't think the names are the best but I can quickly get over that.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 5 2014 9:40 AM

Phil Gons:
I agree it's not perfect and is an oversimplification, but I've not come up with anything better yet. Open to suggestions.

How about Seminary Journal Bundle? Almost all of the ETS-type stuff (apart from JETS itself, of course) is published by seminaries. The title might well make it more attractive to seminary students, too.

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