New Feature: Propositional Outlines
What is it?
The Propositional Outlines tool is a new visual filter that allows you to see the textual flow of a passage and intent of every line of text. This visual filter can be applied to English or Greek versions of the New Testament, showing you major units of text, clause relationship, and the aim of every line.
How does it work?
This visual filter shows the essential (functional) features of each clause, and it presents a translation through a diagram that helps readers visualize the flow of thought within the text.
-
Graphic layout that tells you how clauses relate to one another
-
Breaks the text down into “preachable” sections
-
Can be applied to any Bible with a reverse interlinear, or to a Greek version
-
Shows the flow of thought
-
Shows the function of each clause
-
Shows this layout across the NT (unique)
Where can I learn more?
How do I get it?
This feature is included in Core Crossgrade and higher, as well in Silver base packages and higher.
Comments
-
Upgraded to L6 Gold, but the Propositional Outlines feature is not showing in visual filters.
0 -
Hi William - and welcome to the forums
William Palmer said:Upgraded to L6 Gold, but the Propositional Outlines feature is not showing in visual filters.
Which Bible are you trying this with and which passage?
Graham
0 -
Has everything downloaded and indexed?
What resource and passage are you looking at? Not all bible resources have this capability.
0 -
William Palmer said:
Upgraded to L6 Gold, but the Propositional Outlines feature is not showing in visual filters.
William, thanks for checking here on the Forums.
What Bible are you trying to use this feature with? (It doesn't work on all Bibles. I believe it is restricted to Bibles with a Reverse Interlinear, such as the LEB, NIV, NRSV, NASB95 and others.)
Is Indexing complete? Is there a second download pending?
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
William Palmer said:
Upgraded to L6 Gold, but the Propositional Outlines feature is not showing in visual filters.
Are you in the NT of a reverse interlinear English Bible or Greek morph Bible? Which one? Can you post a screenshot and resource support info?
0 -
This visual filter also works in your morphologically tagged Greek texts like SBLGNT and NA28.
0 -
I have the extended crossgrade, but the Visual Filter is not appearing among the other visual filters in ESV or NA28 [Nor do I have any Interactive Media; and there are no further downloads showing up, just indexing]
0 -
Peter Lever said:
I have the extended crossgrade, but the Visual Filter is not appearing among the other visual filters in ESV or NA28 [Nor do I have any Interactive Media; and there are no further downloads showing up, just indexing]
Indexing will prevent certain visual filters from appearing; if it isn't showing when you finish indexing, please reply back on this thread and we can try to further diagnose the issue.
0 -
Peter Lever said:
Neither do I have any interactive media listing or downloading. [This is off-topic for this thread. Please feel free to read and delete :-) ]
As Dylan said, wait for indexing to complete and then check the status of these features and resources.
0 -
I am having the same issue. I upgraded form L5 Diamond to L6 Diamond. Indexing is complete, but the additional resources have yet to download due to the server issue. Will this come within that resource download?
For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com
0 -
John Kight said:
I am having the same issue. I upgraded form L5 Diamond to L6 Diamond. Indexing is complete, but the additional resources have yet to download due to the server issue. Will this come within that resource download?
Yes, I believe so. Sorry for the server inconvenience - once those are back up and you've downloaded, let us know if you're still having this problem!
0 -
Dylan Rondeau said:John Kight said:
I am having the same issue. I upgraded form L5 Diamond to L6 Diamond. Indexing is complete, but the additional resources have yet to download due to the server issue. Will this come within that resource download?
Yes, I believe so. Sorry for the server inconvenience - once those are back up and you've downloaded, let us know if you're still having this problem!
Will do! Thanks Dylan.
For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com
0 -
Indexing is complete. I used the ESV and 1 Thes 4:1-18 as in the demo video. No matter what verse i choose, the option never displays. I have restarted my computer also.
0 -
William Palmer said:
Indexing is complete. I used yhe ESV and 1 Thes 4:1-18 as in the demo video. No matter what verse i choose, the option never displays. I have restarted my computer also.
I cannot duplicate or find a problem. Perhaps it has something to do with the resources being pushed (or not pushed) from the server right now.
0 -
William Palmer said:
Indexing is complete. I used the ESV and 1 Thes 4:1-18 as in the demo video.
I can see from your screenshot that your L6 hasn't downloaded the update to the ESV yet (probably because of the server problems Logos are currently having). Once that has downloaded, I'm sure you'll be in business.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
As said before, this is likely an issue getting the needed resources for this feature. This feature requires a data resource. In order for the feature to work, you should have the resource DB:SD-PROPOSITIONAL-OUTLINES listed under the tech support section in your About dialog. It should look something like this:
Hope that helps.
0 -
Does this not work for Old Testament? It does not work in my ESV or NKJV for any Old Testament Passage
0 -
Peter Lever said:
Does this not work for Old Testament? It does not work in my ESV or NKJV for any Old Testament Passage
It is currently New Testament only.
From the post at the top of this thread:
"This visual filter can be applied to English or Greek versions of the New Testament, showing you major units of text, clause relationship, and the aim of every line"
0 -
Peter Lever said:
Does this not work for Old Testament? It does not work in my ESV or NKJV for any Old Testament Passage
As Graham noted it is for the NT only. During the beta testing there was a focus on getting the NT done, but Logos did indicate they were considering expanding this feature to the OT at some point in the future. No promises were made regarding the expansion of the feature, nor was any timeline indicated.
0 -
Fredc said:Peter Lever said:
Does this not work for Old Testament? It does not work in my ESV or NKJV for any Old Testament Passage
As Graham noted it is for the NT only. During the beta testing there was a focus on getting the NT done, but Logos did indicate they were considering expanding this feature to the OT at some point in the future. No promises were made regarding the expansion of the feature, nor was any timeline indicated.
We'd like very much to do this same analysis for the OT, but that depends in part on how the feature is received by users. This kind of manual analysis is very time-intensive: I estimate our curators spent at least five person-months of effort on the NT. So if you find it helpful, speak up.
0 -
Sean Boisen said:
We'd like very much to do this same analysis for the OT, but that depends in part on how the feature is received by users. This kind of manual analysis is very time-intensive: I estimate our curators spent at least five person-months of effort on the NT. So if you find it helpful, speak up.
At a quick glance, this looks it has the potential to be one of the most significant new features in L6.
After perusing how it works with a couple of different genres in the NT, I went to try it out in the OT and discovered it wasn't there yet. It would be fascinating to see how you guys would handle Hebrew parallelism. :-)
0 -
I LIKE IT ! ! !
I've been looking at and playing with the Propositional Outline Visual Filter today after doing the Extended Crossgrade - and I can say that this could be an invaluable tool for quickly getting at the heart of what's being said in the passage in a visual way.
This would truly be an awesome thing to be able to use throughout the entire Bible. Sure would like to see it available for the OT too.
0 -
Just wanted to report that everything worked fine after the download and index were complete. Also, an OT propositional outline would be a welcomed addition!!
For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com
0 -
Allen Browne said:
It would be fascinating to see how you guys would handle Hebrew parallelism. :-)
It isn't the same tool, but do check out the Interactive Psalms tool which does offer a structural analysis of the Psalms.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
I was playing around with the Interactive Psalms Explorer and that is so cool. A visual way of discovering just what you're looking for.
This tool would also be very useful if it could be expanded to the entire Bible. Not sure if that;'s even possible - but I can hope!
0 -
Mark Smith said:
It isn't the same tool, but do check out the Interactive Psalms tool which does offer a structural analysis of the Psalms.
Thanks, Mark.
Psalms Explorer looks fascinating. Love the Overview mode! It's a great way to graphically show the balance of genres etc--something that's not easy to do in a collection as large as Psalms. I'll certainly use this tool when teaching Psalms next year.
Detail mode wasn't quite as intuitive for me, e.g. a) I didn't quite follow the coding for parallelism. b) The Go To box didn't always work as expected (e.g. if I type in Psa 89). c) Right-clicking and choosing Copy didn't give me a useful result when I pasted into MS Word. Hebrew alongside English was nice.
0 -
Sean Boisen said:
We'd like very much to do this same analysis for the OT, but that depends in part on how the feature is received by users. This kind of manual analysis is very time-intensive: I estimate our curators spent at least five person-months of effort on the NT. So if you find it helpful, speak up.
I find it very useful! Please continue the OT!
0 -
Does anyone know who created this? So far, it seems right on.
Was it Steven Runge? If so, that is amazing!0 -
Sam Choi said:
Does anyone know who created this?
The bibliographic citation for the Psalms Explorer says Witthoff, David, Kristopher A. Lyle, and Matt Nerdhal. Psalms Form and Structure. Edited by Eli Evans. Bellingham, WA: Faithlife, 2014.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
There's another thread devoted to the Psalms Explorer: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/92646.aspx. I'd love to continue this helpful conversation over there, and keep this thread focused on the Propositional Outlines.
0 -
Sam Choi said:
Does anyone know who created this? So far, it seems right on.
Was it Steven Runge? If so, that is amazing!Sam:
If you were referring to the propositional outlines, most of the work was done by Mark Keaton. I did some work at the end of the project to make sure it was all ready for Logos 6. Glad to see all of the positive feedback so far. If any questions come up about the data, I'll be following the thread and glad to answer them.
0 -
Mark Barnes said:Sam Choi said:
Does anyone know who created this?
The bibliographic citation says Witthoff, David, Kristopher A. Lyle, and Matt Nerdhal. Psalms Form and Structure. Edited by Eli Evans. Bellingham, WA: Faithlife, 2014.
That is, if "this" is the Psalms Explorer.
If you mean the Propositional Outlines, most of the analysis was done by Mark Keaton, until recently one of our curators in Content Innovation. Jeremy Thompson has since picked up the work (and did several books of the Bible). Mark and Jeremy were both primary contributors (along with David Witthoff) to the Bible Sense Lexicon, so they've had significant experience in categorizing the semantic functions of the text.
0 -
Oops, Jeremy beat me to it!
0 -
Aaaaaand ... it looks like Sean and I have been typing at the same time.
0 -
Allen Browne said:
Detail mode wasn't quite as intuitive for me, e.g. a) I didn't quite follow the coding for parallelism. b) The Go To box didn't always work as expected (e.g. if I type in Psa 89). c) Right-clicking and choosing Copy didn't give me a useful result when I pasted into MS Word. Hebrew alongside English was nice.
I had some confusion at first, as well. The coding appears as a pop-up, but an introduction explaining the coding would be nice.
I don't get a right click menu on this tool at all. Not sure how Logos would export this, but being able to print would be nice. Anyone at Logos reading this?
Not as helpful, but still valuable is the Proverbs Interactive. I especially like that they have tried to organize the book by theme or topic, so that should one wish to study just one theme in Proverbs, they now have an easy way to do so. Unfortunately as in Psalms, there is no export or print capability nor is a way to add results to a Passage List. This hinders the tool's usefulness and I hope Logos will add at least that last-named last feature.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
Sean Boisen said:
We'd like very much to do this same analysis for the OT, but that depends in part on how the feature is received by users. This kind of manual analysis is very time-intensive: I estimate our curators spent at least five person-months of effort on the NT. So if you find it helpful, speak up.
I just would like to echo my thanks also for this feature (this and inline search are two of my favorites so far in Logos 6), and I would love to see it come to the Old Testament.
0 -
Mark Smith said:
The coding appears as a pop-up, but an introduction explaining the coding would be nice.
I'm assuming this is in reference to the parallelism annotation the Psalms Explorer.
The bottom left corner of the Psalms Explorer has an "About & Bibliography" link.
There are some more details on the terminology there, as well as other sources to follow up on. Regarding parallelism stuff, Adele Berlin's article "Parallelism" in Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary has some more information (vol 5 pp. 155-161).
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
Rick Brannan (Faithlife) said:
I'm assuming this is in reference to the parallelism annotation the Psalms Explorer.
Yes we stole this thread for awhile.
Rick Brannan (Faithlife) said:The bottom left corner of the Psalms Explorer has an "About & Bibliography" link.
I saw that awhile back (in beta testing). I think that is good info but perhaps all those nice colored icons could be worked into that pop-up so I could find them and discover more about them without reading the entire introduction?
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
Sean Boisen said:
We'd like very much to do this same analysis for the OT, but that depends in part on how the feature is received by users.
I'd just like to echo what others have said here.
In my opinion, this is one of the most promising and useful features in L6. I can imagine that I will use this increasingly in Bible study, sermon preparation and for teaching.
It really would be fantastic to have OT coverage.
I understand and appreciate that this is really time-intensive, but this feature (and other tools like it) is what increasingly distinguishes Logos from anything out there. It is one of your unique (and invaluable) selling points [:D].
Fantastic work.
0 -
The Propositional Outlines feature is a very very useful feature. Please please have this for OT also!
0 -
Interesting, is anyone familiar with the Bible arcing method of study? Do you think this will replace it?
0 -
If it doesn't replace Arcing in a person's workflow, it certainly could be a great aid to helping them to Arc.
0 -
There's definitely overlap between the Propositional Outlines and arcing.
- Both identify propositions in the text
- Both relate propositions to each other, via labels
- Both show larger relations between propositional units (arcing through larger arcs; Propositional Outlines through the indentation hierarchy)
I'd say arcing goes further in adding higher-level relationships: the Propositional Outlines mainly relate individual propositions (though again the indentation shows one kind of larger relationship, the part to the whole). And of course, arcing (as I understand it) is something you're intended to do for yourself. That's an extremely valuable exercise in Bible study, but one that requires an enormous time commitment. We've tried to offer much of that value to our users who don't have the time or ability to do that analysis themselves.
0 -
I have been requesting a propositional outline for the past 18 month or so. I'm really excited that Logos went that route! I know that this takes a lot of work. Very much appreciated!
And yes, the OT would be a very welcome addition too!!!
0 -
I totally agree with Peter. Thank you! Keep up the good work!
Peter Lever said:The Propositional Outlines feature is a very very useful feature. Please please have this for OT also!
0 -
Sorry...I just started a new thread that said how much I LOVE this feature. I didn't realize this one was started.
That being said, I would have bought the crossgrade for THIS feature alone. I LOVE it!
Looking forward to (in faith) the OT!!!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
0 -
They are very good. It's fun to go to passages where I have extensive highlighting and click propositional outlines to see how my own study compares.
0 -
It's a silly thing I suppose for me to worry about, but why do some sections start with commas?
Should we report such things as typos?
0 -
I agree. I hope Logos decides it is work the effort because of the analytical possibilities it would open for us.
0 -
Gao Lu said:
It's a silly thing I suppose for me to worry about, but why do some sections start with commas?
Should we report such things as typos?
The Propositional Outline annotation is done on the Greek text: that way we can transfer it to whatever your preferred Bible might be, as long as it has a reverse interlinear. That means the display is generated "on the fly". So these aren't exactly typos, but issues with the display algorithm. I'll file a case to let the developer know.
0
