Recommendations for Logos Training - Seminary & Ph.D Studies

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Posts 5
Nathaniel J. Garcia | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Nov 1 2014 3:02 PM

Hey everyone,

About 2 months ago I bought Logos 5 Portfolio and then just upgraded to Logos 6 Portfolio so I'm still very new to the software. I primarily bought it to help with my master's degree studies and my upcoming thesis preparation.

I'm looking to find some recommendations on good training programs for Logos. Most of what I have seen recommended or that Logos advertises does not ever come close to the depth of study that I'm looking to engage in.

Basic word studies, translation comparisons, and other common applications that laity and pastors would use Logos for are not sufficient for my needs.

The optimization of Logos resources would be probably be a good place to start. My library is close to 6000 resources and unfortunately the videos I've seen cover optimization for much smaller libraries or for altogether different purposes.

I'm also looking for some advanced training on the exegetical functions the linguistic search functions. I hear a lot about how powerful the search is and the software appears to really have the ability to weed through all the resources well but my understanding of how to search, for my needs is, undeveloped.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? Resources that are not too expensive, or that are free, would be great. My investment in Logos has been pretty costly already. I do understand that additional investment for training is needed I'd just prefer not to drop another $250-$500 doing that.

Thanks!!!  

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 3:15 PM

Nathaniel,

I have never taken a class nor attended a training event for Logos Bible Software, but I'm sure some of those who've attended will give you their input.

There are two trainers of note for LBS. The official one is Morris Proctor and his site is here. He offers Camp 1 and Camp 2, the contents of each can be found on his site.

The second trainer is a former Logos employee. You'll find him mentioned on this wiki page.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 13417
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 3:34 PM

This is basic academic training, but might be useful: https://www.logos.com/product/41718/mobile-ed-lt151-logos-academic-training 

Nathaniel J. Garcia:
The optimization of Logos resources would be probably be a good place to start. My library is close to 6000 resources and unfortunately the videos I've seen cover optimization for much smaller libraries or for altogether different purposes.

I know more training from Logos is coming, but I don't know if it will cover these topics. Perhaps you have some specific questions, people here might help.

You might also want to look into a training video I made on Prioritisation. It starts of slowly, but overall it's a bit more in-depth than many similar videos. It was made for L4, but that feature hasn't changed much over the years. You should also read up on collections.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 4:53 PM

One academic with a book forthcoming in Logos has indicated that trial and error and help on the forums is how he developed his skills in Searching - and given some of the techniques he has shared, his skills are considerable..I'd go through the blogs on using Logos - Logos log, Verbum blog, Academic blog and through the videos reading and watching those that might be useful, trying some of the more difficult tasks you want from Logos - asking on the forums if necessary ... and then decide if you need to spend money on training.

Regarding training, I like to offer as an example three senior IT professionals of the same level but different temperaments.

  • I'd start reading the training material, get bored and simple plunge into the new tool ... figuring out where to find training or documentation I had to have as I went along.
  • WP always went through the training materials very conscientiously making sure he understood it all before he tried the tool
  • GP always simply waited until the two of us had worked it out, then asked us to show him how to use the new tool. Amusingly he was the best at getting new technology to work 

The reason I give this long-winded example is that you have to know how you work best as well as what you need to do before we can truly give you good answers.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5
Nathaniel J. Garcia | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 5:41 PM

Mark S, Mark B, and M,

Thank you for your responses. I found a seminary teacher who teaches and introduction course and just responded to me looking for clarification as to what I was looking for. I think my response covers my predicament:

Danny,

Thank you for your response. I did just upgrade to Logos 6 so understanding the new functionality will be very helpful, especially the textual criticism elements. I have not seen your training yet. I was reading the reviews, which were all very positive, and the only reason I hadn't chosen to utilize it was because a few people had described it as a good beginner course and alternative to Morris Proctors training. Perhaps the scope of what I'm looking for is more than simply acclimating to a specific feature and understanding what it is for but rather a deep looks at different things you can do with it. 

For instance how you can use morphology and syntax searches to accomplish textual criticism research. Its a bit difficult to describe. I work at a software company doing training and creating workflows for customers and everyday people tell me "I never thought to use that function quite that way" or "I didn't realize that you could accomplish something like this using that function." The reality is that they know how to use the software in basic and intended ways but I help bring out the creative possibilities while solving advanced problems.  I'm looking for the same kind of guidance through Logos. Its hard to request the or describe the "unknown".  I'm not sure if that helps
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 6:05 PM

Fr. Devin Roza gave a couple of examples of this kind of search recently but I'm not finding it ... perhaps because I haven't the foggiest idea what the thread was about.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 6:10 PM

MJ. Smith:
Fr. Devin Roza gave a couple of examples of this kind of search recently but I'm not finding it ... perhaps because I haven't the foggiest idea what the thread was about.

Reliability of Morph searches in Logos vs Bibleworks vs Accordance 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 10:57 PM

Nathaniel J. Garcia:
Resources that are not too expensive, or that are free, would be great.

I attended Camp Logos 1 way back when it was for L4. I found Mo Proctor to be an excellent instructor and the training sessions were well worth the (not cheap) cost. In my opinion (and I've been a professor for over 20 years now), you can't beat live training with any form of multi-media, for the primary reason that questions get answered *right now*. Asynchronous learning always has a time lag, and a time lag between the question and a valid answer is usually not conducive to deep learning or retention. If you can get to one of the Logos Camp seminars, I believe you'll find it helpful. But you won't find it inexpensive, especially if you have to pay for a plane ticket and a motel room.

I also have used as much free training video as I could find, and most of them were helpful. I also purchased some outside training from one of the online trainers, and thought it was worth the (not very expensive) cost. But it wasn't to the depth for which you are looking.

Here's the rub: the kind of in-depth training you want is very unlikely to be free, or even inexpensive. Learning to use software like L6 in depth takes a lot of time and effort, and that's the kind of information for which we usually have to pay. If this was for personal entertainment, I'd say it wasn't worth the cost. But since this is for your (really, really expensive) graduate work, laying out some more cash for good training is almost essential.

I don't have a name or two of folks who can do what you need, because I haven't been there or done that. (I do have an L4 t-shirt, though.) What I can give you is a principle: if you want that kind of in-depth training, you need a tutor (a live one, preferably), and you'll have to pay the going rate for it. But that kind of learning, specific to your exact needs, is what you'll want to find, IMO.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 2 2014 12:08 AM

thank you fgh

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5
Nathaniel J. Garcia | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 2 2014 1:52 PM

Doc B,

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I agree with everything you've said and I think what I'd hope to gain, along with the sort of insight you've provided, is perhaps a person who could provide that training. Since Morris Proctor is really a teacher to the masses my feeling has been that his teaching is tailored to the majority need. I'm in probably a 5%-10% category of users, possibly fewer.

I'm willing to spend the money but, since I'm new to the software, I figured I'd toss out a line to really find out what was available. I'm very research oriented so I like to gather as much information as possible before making a purchase. If there isn't someone out there making videos or tutorials at the level of training I'm looking for that is good information to know.

I work in currently in software and web development and finding training for that is another story. There are hundreds of people creating free tutorials for any level of developer. I learned all the skills I use on my job with the aid of free videos. There have been several examples of people who take you from the basic to the most advanced functions with lots of in-depth information the whole way through. I had to use forums to get recommendations on the best resources to find those people.

I thought I'd try the same approach here and use the forums to get the lay of the land. Thanks again   

Posts 824
GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 2 2014 2:38 PM

Nathaniel J. Garcia:

Doc B,

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I agree with everything you've said and I think what I'd hope to gain, along with the sort of insight you've provided, is perhaps a person who could provide that training. Since Morris Proctor is really a teacher to the masses my feeling has been that his teaching is tailored to the majority need. I'm in probably a 5%-10% category of users, possibly fewer.

I'm willing to spend the money but, since I'm new to the software, I figured I'd toss out a line to really find out what was available. I'm very research oriented so I like to gather as much information as possible before making a purchase. If there isn't someone out there making videos or tutorials at the level of training I'm looking for that is good information to know.

I work in currently in software and web development and finding training for that is another story. There are hundreds of people creating free tutorials for any level of developer. I learned all the skills I use on my job with the aid of free videos. There have been several examples of people who take you from the basic to the most advanced functions with lots of in-depth information the whole way through. I had to use forums to get recommendations on the best resources to find those people.

I thought I'd try the same approach here and use the forums to get the lay of the land. Thanks again   

The Morris Proctor course referred to above was published in December 2013, so will be primarily training on Logos 5. It's probably worth getting it only when it's updated to cover L6. 


Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 2 2014 3:24 PM

Nathaniel, I kind of doubt you're going to get too far.  Generally, if anyone has a decently complex query, either Dave (Australia), Bradley (Logos employee), or Fr. Devin is going to chime in (plus another gentleman whose name escapes me but does much work on the DSS).   Most everyone else is either working the tools, is also using Accordance/Bibleworks, or does a lot of hebrew queries.

Given your background, you're far better off working backwards ... check what the resources have available (usable search fields), the syntax available (Logos WIKI), and then flukey situations (forum queries).  That's how I operate; essentially see what's in the databases.  Whoever built a lot of the earlier databases in Logos seemed to operate the same way, and they really have some rich fields for the curious.  Plus it's almost inevitable you're going to have to go off-post to do any sophisticated merging, etc, so you'll want to write a series of macros in your language of choice.  That's how I ended up with Logos ... I needed some specific fields and I bought the package just to get the fields.  Logos is really flexible.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 3052
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 2 2014 5:25 PM

Nathaniel J. Garcia:
Morris Proctor is really a teacher to the masses my feeling has been that his teaching is tailored to the majority need. I'm in probably a 5%-10% category of users, possibly fewer.

Agreed. I think he has the expertise you need, but he doesn't have the market to profit from it. There's not enough users like you to go around.

There's good news: the most likely place to find a high-end tutor would be at a seminary, I would think.

Once you nail this down, maybe you can become the high-end instructor you want, and provide that service to others. Yes

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 2771
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 2 2014 5:38 PM

Nathaniel; Have you considered John Fallahee at Learnlogos. He is an excellent trainer of Logos Bible Software, and is very reasonable.

http://www.learnlogos.com/aboutus.asp

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