Why are not User Manuals Free?

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This post has 228 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 2831
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 11 2015 12:14 PM

Everett Headley:
With thousands of dollars invested in my library, there should be from Logos a FREE manual and training.  Paying $225 for MP to tell me how to use the program is just ridiculous IMO.

Hey, it's down to $200 now! We should be thrilled!

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/100718/696147.aspx#696147

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 928
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 7:26 PM

Scott E. Mahle:

Hello, Justin!

I can’t comment on the videos because I’ve never seen them, but I do have the training manuals from MP Seminars and I can say they are very well done, thorough, and now come with the What’s New in 6 manual. The price isn’t bad for what you get! Link to training bundle.

The new Logos 6 Training Manuals are available for pre-order at MP for $39.95 plus shipping--shipping March 1.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 1954
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 8:12 PM

Those training manuals are not in digital format, cannot be accessed from L6. Many of us do not want a physical manual.  We want a digital manual.  Videos are nice.  But they are not manuals.

Posts 120
Antonius | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 13 2015 5:04 AM

Mark:

Those training manuals are not in digital format, cannot be accessed from L6. Many of us do not want a physical manual.  We want a digital manual.  Videos are nice.  But they are not manuals.

I totally agree.  I would like the manual in Logos format so I can use In-Line Search on it!

Posts 468
Charlene | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 13 2015 5:10 AM

Antonius:

Mark:

Those training manuals are not in digital format, cannot be accessed from L6. Many of us do not want a physical manual.  We want a digital manual.  Videos are nice.  But they are not manuals.

I totally agree.  I would like the manual in Logos format so I can use In-Line Search on it!

I want both! Smile There are times when I want a paper copy besides me and other times I want to do it all on the laptop.

Charlene

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 13 2015 5:45 AM

I thought it unusual that one of the new Proctor videos (at a reasonable price) only seems to contain information about the upgrade differences?

Am I wrong?  I would have bought it if it covered everything. 

--I still find 6.0 rather an unnecessary upgrade as I do not yet do much with original languages.  I find some of the minute things they have done useless.  I am more impressed by common everyday things and upgrades (like improving functionality for people trying to get to a book, chapter, and verse quickly in a Bible study.  I still find Windows and Android functionality there a bit cumbersome). 

I really wish the developers would use some of us as testers.  I would be happy to let them know (kindly) what is nice but useless for us common non-techies just trying to open a few commentaries while following along in say a NKJV on Sunday Mornings.

They all have permission to track my usage on Tuesday nights at 6 pm est and Sundays from 9-12 noon anytime.

Blessings,

Joshua

Posts 1954
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 13 2015 7:35 AM

Charlene:
I want both!

Charlene, the physical manual is provided. You can order it at a reasonable price.  A digital version has never existed.  It is a sticking point for many logos users.

Posts 21978
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 13 2015 8:02 AM

Mark:
A digital version has never existed.

https://www.logos.com/product/48987/logos-6-whats-new is a digital manual (under development) showing what is new in Logos 6.

Posts 1954
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 13 2015 8:16 AM

Graham Criddle:

Mark:
A digital version has never existed.

https://www.logos.com/product/48987/logos-6-whats-new is a digital manual (under development) showing what is new in Logos 6.

This has never existed before and it is a first step.  BUT it is only a digital what's new manual.  It is not a full digital manual.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 13 2015 8:17 AM

Mark:
Charlene, the physical manual is provided. You can order it at a reasonable price.  A digital version has never existed. 

Not true. If you check the Logos Wiki page on Contents of Discontinued Base Packages you will see a digital user manual was included in Logos 2.0 Level 4. I have that package.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 1954
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 13 2015 8:38 AM

Thank you for the updated information.  I started with L3.  Never had L2.  I wonder why it was not included in L3, L4, L5 and now L6?  I was unaware that it was included in L2. I wonder if it was also included in L1. Was Morris Proctor producing manuals back in L1 and L2?  Or did he start with L3?

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 13 2015 9:03 AM

Mark:

Thank you for the updated information.  I started with L3.  Never had L2.  I wonder why it was not included in L3, L4, L5 and now L6?  I was unaware that it was included in L2. I wonder if it was also included in L1. Was Morris Proctor producing manuals back in L1 and L2?  Or did he start with L3?

I don't know when Morris Proctor started producing manuals and conducting seminars. The first MP seminar I went to was for L4. I know Libronix 1.6 did not have a digital user manual. I can't remember if it had a paper manual or not. I have no idea why L6 doesn't have an electronic manual. It does have a help file and Quickstart videos. Then there is the user wiki and free training videos on Youtube.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 468
Charlene | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 13 2015 10:20 AM

Mark:

Charlene:
I want both!

Charlene, the physical manual is provided. You can order it at a reasonable price.  A digital version has never existed.  It is a sticking point for many logos users.

Hi Mark,

I understand that. I have been with Logos since CDWord days (Logos 1.6). The major point of these posts is to show that many Logos users feel that Logos should provide a FREE manual with its software. So I was just stating that my preference would be a hard copy as well as a digital copy.

Charlene

Posts 1954
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 13 2015 7:48 PM

I understand, Charlene and should have noted that sooner.  I agree that some like a physical manual and some like a digital manual.  I agree that the main issue of this thread is that we feel it should be a free resource.

Posts 5251
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 15 2015 10:21 AM

I have a real problem with calling Logos a free program. One can download it free, even the latest edition now. But to do much of anything with it you need to pay a fair amount of money.  It is almost like going to a coffee shop and hearing the coffee is free here... but we are going to charge you for grinding it, the hot water and everything else. One or two may be content to chew on a coffee bean, but until it is ground and water is added and in many cases milk and sugar it just is not all that useful, indeed you cannot even get a good sense of what coffee is until it is ground and made into coffee (as one who virtually never drinks coffee I am not sure why I choose this example). I at no point ever expected a free physical manual to be printed and mailed out to me as a user, what I can say is it is a shame that a fine product like Logos would not have  a better amount of documentation on it's use.

-dan

Posts 27768
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 15 2015 11:13 AM

Dan Francis:
I have a real problem with calling Logos a free program.

You shouldn't. It is free. Truly free. To use your coffee shop analogy, it is like going to Starbucks and being offered a free tall caffè americano. You might want a Grande. You've got to pay for it. You might want a caffè mocha or a caramel macchiato. Again, sorry, you have to pay... but that doesn't diminish the "freeness" of the tall americano. 

A user could create an account, acquire a bunch of free resource licenses (both Logos and Vyrso editions), and have a functioning (albeit limited) Bible software program for both desktop and mobile. They can make notes and highlights and have those sync between devices. Free. They can "send to kindle" their resources. Free. They can post in the forums and ask questions (and they do!)... Free. 

Dan Francis:
what I can say is it is a shame that a fine product like Logos would not have  a better amount of documentation on it's use.

Completely agree. A Morris Proctor style manual (not video training) should be provided with base packages, at least at some level (silver? gold?).

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 382
Sacrifice | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 15 2015 11:22 AM

Graham, many thanks for pointing this out.

However, IMO it (1) should be free with puchase of L6 and (2) needs to cover not just what is new, but how to use the total program (every aspect).  While many here know how to use the basics, new users especially need to learn it from the ground up.   

I'm thankful that my auto manual doesn't just cover what is "new." I know how to change a tire, but someone new ... may not be able to ....

Such a manual (electronic, written) could save Logos a lot of expenses in phone calls, emails, ....

Graham Criddle:

Mark:
A digital version has never existed.

https://www.logos.com/product/48987/logos-6-whats-new is a digital manual (under development) showing what is new in Logos 6.

Yours In Christ

Posts 5251
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 15 2015 1:10 PM

alabama24:

Dan Francis:
I have a real problem with calling Logos a free program.

You shouldn't. It is free. Truly free. To use your coffee shop analogy, it is like going to Starbucks and being offered a free tall caffè americano. You might want a Grande. You've got to pay for it. You might want a caffè mocha or a caramel macchiato. Again, sorry, you have to pay... but that doesn't diminish the "freeness" of the tall americano. 

A user could create an account, acquire a bunch of free resource licenses (both Logos and Vyrso editions), and have a functioning (albeit limited) Bible software program for both desktop and mobile. They can make notes and highlights and have those sync between devices. Free. They can "send to kindle" their resources. Free. They can post in the forums and ask questions (and they do!)... Free. 

True enough and FL is very generous providing Faithlife Study Bible Items and the Lexham Bible for free... this truly is like getting a free cup of coffee... It is most useful and a good thing for people to try Logos. And I do not believe FL has any responsibility to make any of it's resources available free. I remember more than a few people complaining that it was not free because you could not use so may features without purchase. My apologies for that outburst (should be heading out to the woodshed Embarrassed) about Verbum/Logos freeness. At the most basic level it is most certainly free, but it is not too powerful in that state (but then again it never claims you can do everything free).

-Dan

Posts 251
Rod | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 16 2015 9:36 AM

Jesse Blevins:
Logos 7 should definitely include some kind of ebook manual that goes into depth with the software. The days of having to pay a third party big dollars to teach us how to use the software should come to an end. 

Totally agree!  I don't want a video course.  I want a detailed  manual that contains all of the not so obvious commands that would help me use Logos.

I can learn at least 5 times as fast with a manual than with a video course.

Please Faithlife, focus on helping your customers use your products better.

Posts 2831
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 17 2015 11:09 AM

Taxee:
Please Faithlife, focus on helping your customers use your products better.

That last sentence would make a great signature item for the forums. If I start using it, I'll give proper attribution. Yes

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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