Why are not User Manuals Free?

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This post has 228 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 1:21 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):

It's called the Wiki... That said I totally agree with the sentiment that something like the MP Seminar's What's new manual should have been included with all base packages.  MP would have been paid and the cost to users would have been negligible in comparison to the total cost of the base package.

This would work. I'd even be willing to pay an extra $15 on my base collection upgrade if need be to have the What's New Manual integrated into the Logos download. On the "Welcome" section of the home page, Logos could prominently link to this resource, so users wanting to read it have it clearly visible upon installing L6 and have it a click away.

I guess Morris could also digitize his training manuals into Logos format and Logos could ship them in base collections for those "wanting it all".

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 2:06 PM

Super.Tramp:

Funny how everyone thinks it should be easy for Logos to create a user manual but nobody can figure out how to create a PB out of a help file.   Maybe you guys do need a manual after all.

EDIT: Remarks removed....

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 10101
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 2:17 PM

Bryan,

I don't want to honor your abusive post by citing it, but this thread, that started below zero and has gone south ever since (and I'm wondering why people need to keep it alive all the time) has reached a low point that in more strictly moderated forums would invoke not only its deletion but some user banning as well. Well, I guess we all live by grace everyday. 

Please consider editing/deleting your writing. 

Mick.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 10101
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 2:20 PM

Please, Matthew, don't.  

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 2:33 PM

NB.Mick:

Bryan,

I don't want to honor your abusive post by citing it, but this thread, that started below zero and has gone south ever since (and I'm wondering why people need to keep it alive all the time) has reached a low point that in more strictly moderated forums would invoke not only its deletion but some user banning as well. Well, I guess we all live by grace everyday. 

Please consider editing/deleting your writing. 

Mick.

NB I get what your saying, but why is it OK to write insulting remarks, but it's not Ok to respond to them. Is this not selective outrage? Why do I get called out for responding are you calling him out for inciting?

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 26749
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 2:35 PM

I think I got censored!Big Smile And all I did was suggest that some branks were in order ... at least until some more forum-appropriate device was created.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 2:44 PM

MJ. Smith:
I think I got censored!Big Smile And all I did was suggest that some branks were in order

I had to look that up....

branks braNGks/ noun historical 1 an instrument of punishment for a scolding woman, consisting of an iron framework for the head and a sharp metal gag for restraining the tongue. That's Funny....LOL

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 26749
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 2:47 PM

Bryan S.:

NB I get what your saying, but why is it OK to write insulting remarks, but it's not Ok to respond to them. Is this not selective outrage? Why do I get called out for responding are you calling him out for inciting?

Bryan, it is true that not all forum users are treated identically. For example, a former member who wrote long and irate posts was tolerated because we knew the behavior was the result of a stroke. Another former member was allowed to go off topic to his heart's content because mental illness created some gaps in his social awareness. Yet another was tolerated as a lonely person stuck in a foreign country. When ST gets out of hand, just tell him to go mow his lawn ... he'll understand although few others will. But unless you wish to claim a special tolerance due to circumstances beyond your control, you should not try to claim such tolerance justifies your behavior. The same applies to all forum users except at most a handful at any point of time for whom circumstances are known and tolerance offered.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 959
Yasmin Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 2:47 PM

MJ. Smith:

I think I got censored!Big Smile And all I did was suggest that some branks were in order ... at least until some more forum-appropriate device was created.

I finally learn something constructive from this thread - I've never heard of "branks" before Embarrassed Quite interesting (and barbaric!); off to read more.

Posts 5087
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 2:54 PM

NB.Mick:
and I'm wondering why people need to keep it alive all the time
.  Because their is a perceived need in sections of the user community. 

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 3:11 PM

MJ. Smith:
But unless you wish to claim a special tolerance due to circumstances beyond your control, you should not try to claim such tolerance justifies your behavior.

Point well taken, Always a pleasure MJ

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 283
Michel Pauw | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 3:11 PM

Just wondering: why should we waste our time with keeping up this thread, instead of investing the same amount of time in starting to make a manual?
It seems to me that this complaint - which is valid in my opinion - is raised several times and never will be solved to the satisfaction of the wanna-be-power-users.

Posts 5251
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 4:56 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):
Dan it is not reasonable for a beginner.  They will not get that far.  They won't even know compare periscopes exists let alone look for it, if they even know what pericope means.  I had never come across the term until I came across it on the old Logos Newsgroups.  The built in help file is not the answer.  You only need to look at the responses in this thread and questions posted in other threads by new users if they are fortunate enough to make it to these forums, to see the internal help is only useful for those already comfortable with the software.  

I choose something more advanced to show there is information on doing things... The contents starting off are below.

Help on ...

Basics

Installation

How-To

Home Page

My Library

Resources

Documents

Guides

Tools

Layouts

Importing

Advanced

Searching

I have not said a manual is not a good idea or needed. I do not understand how using the help system is unreasonable. The Help system is laid out as a users manual would be, I have already said it would do well to be made more robust.

-Dan

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 6:51 PM

Bryan S.:

That's the problem you made do, why? you paid dearly for a program and should you not expect the best, since they clam to beSmile

And that is I think the crux of the issue. I've invested thousands in logos. Will likely invest a good deal more. However I have never paid a single penny for the software - only resources. 

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 787
James Hiddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 7:25 PM

abondservant:

Bryan S.:

That's the problem you made do, why? you paid dearly for a program and should you not expect the best, since they clam to beSmile

And that is I think the crux of the issue. I've invested thousands in logos. Will likely invest a good deal more. However I have never paid a single penny for the software - only resources. 

So you're running on the engine alone with resources?

Posts 26749
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 8:02 PM

James Hiddle:

abondservant:

Bryan S.:

That's the problem you made do, why? you paid dearly for a program and should you not expect the best, since they clam to beSmile

And that is I think the crux of the issue. I've invested thousands in logos. Will likely invest a good deal more. However I have never paid a single penny for the software - only resources. 

So you're running on the engine alone with resources?

That is what everyone does ... on the Faithlife site you can buy resources but you can't buy software. Well, back in the days when Logos 1 was sold in boxes with disks in brick and mortar stores I suppose you actually bought software.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 28 2014 6:01 AM

MJ. Smith:
That is what everyone does ... on the Faithlife site you can buy resources but you can't buy software. Well, back in the days when Logos 1 was sold in boxes with disks in brick and mortar stores I suppose you actually bought software.

Now as much as I hate to disagree with you MJ, that's not entirely true, I have L6, can you at this very moment download a free version of L6, No you can not...When I bought L6 it was not and is still not available for free, So I bought it plane and simple. and even if or when it is available for free will it be rich with all the features that my program has, once again no. I have 1930 books but logos says I have 2157. So I have 227 resources that are not book what are they? Much of it is features of the software that you cant get unless you buy it.

By the way I have a Farrari for free it yours, but I own all the gas stations and I've decided to charge 10,000 a gallon, now I do have a yugo for free as well and you can use it with some of the free gas we offer on our site, but really who wants to bee seen in a yugo. Smile

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 787
James Hiddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 28 2014 8:07 AM

I had the Logos 5 engine with nothing but over 1100 resources until I got L6 Baptist Gold. I suppose once the L6 engine comes around you can still just buy resources but for me the features that the base packages offer really enhances Bible studying and makes things much easier.

Just an opinion of mine though. There really isn't anything wrong with using just the engine and buying books/Bibles,etc though if you don't want for find the features offered useful.

Posts 10214
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 28 2014 8:38 AM

Yes, that's a major mistake seen on the forum quite a bit.  You really don't need the free engine to read your Logos books.  It's easy enough to simply reverse-engineer, and go from there.  The EULA prohibition is just for the engine.  This is why a 'manual' has never really been needed.


Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 28 2014 11:03 AM

Jesse Blevins:
Logos 7 should definitely include some kind of ebook manual that goes into depth with the software.

From a friendly forum discussion about new Case Frame feature in Logos 6 and Verbum 6, learned about "The Lexham Glossary of Semantic Roles", which is an encyclopedia that is included in Logos 6 Feature Crossgrade => https://www.logos.com/product/45041/logos-6-feature-crossgrade and Verbum 6 Feature Crossgrade => https://www.logos.com/product/46134/verbum-6-feature-crossgrade along with corresponding datasets.  "The Lexham Glossary of Semantic Roles" is also included in many base packages => https://www.logos.com/product/46352/lexham-glossary-of-semantic-roles 

A comprehensive user manual could link to this Glossary when explaning Bible Word Study sections.  The link could show not licensed if feature crossgrade or base package has not been purchased.   Created thread about Logos 6.0b Beta 3 Help lacking link to glossary while having two Case Frames in Bible Word Study section descriptions => https://community.logos.com/forums/t/98409.aspx

Bryan S.:

MJ. Smith:
That is what everyone does ... on the Faithlife site you can buy resources but you can't buy software. Well, back in the days when Logos 1 was sold in boxes with disks in brick and mortar stores I suppose you actually bought software.

Now as much as I hate to disagree with you MJ, that's not entirely true, I have L6, can you at this very moment download a free version of L6, No you can not...When I bought L6 it was not and is still not available for free, So I bought it plane and simple. and even if or when it is available for free will it be rich with all the features that my program has, once again no.

When Logos for Mac 1 (subset of Libronix 3) finally shipped in 2008, the software was included with a package purchase OR could purchase the engine for $ 59.95; later Logos Research Systems changed so engine software is now free.  Wiki has => https://wiki.logos.com/Mac_Release_Notes_and_History with Blog link => https://blog.logos.com/2008/11/logos_bible_software_for_mac/

Concur free version 6 engine without appropriate purchase(s) will lack many capabilities and features; wiki has => https://wiki.logos.com/Upgrade_or_Crossgrade_to_Logos_6$3f

Keep Smiling Smile

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