Messianic Starter Base Package

Hi, I noticed you have three types of Base Packages for Lutheran, Pentecostal and even SDA, but not for Messianic/Nazarene Jewish yet.

This movement is experiencing incredibly strong growth in America, Israel and around the world, in a time when many churches are losing members. I'm a youth leader myself, and am currently teaching them Biblical Hebrew, and would like to recommend them all to buy a Logos Starter Package, but none of the Base Package Families are really the right fit for them. There is also a high number of members of other denominations who study Jewish roots in their spare time and some even attend two congregations, Messianic on Saturday, Traditional Church on Sunday.

So I thought I'd make some suggestions for what I think would be an awesome Messianic Starter Base Package. For most denominations/movements, generally only pastors/priests/leaders learn the original languages, not the laity (except for the Orthodox Churches), but this movement is made up of Jews coming to faith in the Messiah and Gentiles interested in the Jewish roots and language. Many Messianic Congregations read from the Torah in Hebrew, some even read Targums. So while other Starter Base Packages leave out many language resources for silver and gold, this group would be heavy on original Semitic languages in a way the other Base Packages aren't. So here's a little wishlist. Thanks for your consideration.

Datasets
English Audio Pronunciations Dataset	$9.95
Greek Audio Pronunciations Dataset (Erasmian)	$19.95
Greek Audio Pronunciations Dataset (Koine)	$0.00
Greek Audio Pronunciations Dataset (Modern)	$0.00
Hebrew Audio Pronunciations	$49.95
Greek Alphabet Tutor	$4.95
Hebrew Alphabet Tutor	$4.95
Hebrew Cantillations	$4.95

English Bibles
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)	$10.00
English Standard Version (ESV)	$10.00
Holy Scriptures: Tree of Life Version (TLV)	$17.95
Lexham English Bible (LEB)	$0.00
The New Revised Standard Version Bible (NRSV) for the Apocrypha	$10.00

English Interlinears
The ESV English-Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament	$19.95
The ESV English-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear Old Testament	$19.95
Lexham English-Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament	$9.95
Lexham English-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear Old Testament
LES English–Greek Reverse Interlinear of the Septuagint	$19.95

Hebrew Interlinear
Lexham Hebrew–English Interlinear Bible	$99.95

Greek Interlinears
Lexham Greek-English Interlinear New Testament: SBL Edition	?
Lexham Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint: H.B. Swete Edition	$49.95
The Greek–Hebrew Reverse Interlinear Septuagint: H. B. Swete Edition, Alternate Texts	$9.97
The Greek–Hebrew Reverse Interlinear Septuagint: H.B. Swete Edition	$9.98

Audio Bibles
ESV Audio Bible	$0.00
Lexham English Bible Audio	$0.00

Hebrew, Aramaic, Syriac, and Greek Bibles, etc.
Lexham Hebrew Bible with Morphology	$49.95
CAL Targums with Targum Lexicon	$24.95
The Leiden Peshitta	$99.95
Early Bible Translations Collection (15 vols.) English translations of Targums and Peshitta	$189.95
Apparatus for the Greek New Testament: SBL Edition	$0.00
Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament and Dataset
The Greek New Testament: SBL Edition (SBL)	$0.00
The Lexham Clausal Outlines of the Greek New Testament: SBL Edition	$0.00
The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament: Sentence Analysis	$0.00
Lexham English Septuagint	$24.95
The Lexham English Septuagint: Alternate Texts	$4.97
Lexham Analytical Lexicon of the Septuagint: H.B. Swete Edition	$4.98

Harmonies and Parallel Passages
Analytical Outline of the Books of Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles (Crockett)	$0.00
Eusebian Canons	$28.95
Old Testament Quotations and Allusions in the New Testament
Old Testament Quotes in the New Testament (HCSB)	$0.00
Parallel Passages in the Pastoral Epistles (Brannan)	$0.00

Study Bibles/Commentaries
The Jewish New Testament Commentary	$31.95
A Messianic Commentary: Matthew Presents Yeshua, King Messiah	$26.95
The Jewish Study Bible	$31.95
Keil and Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament (COT) (10 vols.)	$119.95
Hebrews Through a Hebrew's Eyes	$7.95

Dictionaries
Concise HALOT	$31.95
The Lexham Analytical Lexicon to the Greek New Testament	$26.95

Early Church
The Apostolic Fathers: Greek Texts and English Translations	$38.00
On Pascha: With the Fragments of Melito and Other Material Related to the Quartodecimans	$13.95

Messianic Books
Nazarene Jewish Christianity	$19.95
Jewish Believers in Jesus: The Early Centuries	$49.99
They Loved the Torah: What Yeshua's First Followers Really Thought About the Law	$8.95
Yeshua: A Guide to the Real Jesus and the Original Church	$11.95
The Greatest Commandment: How the Sh’ma Leads to More Love in Your Life	$11.95

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Comments

TCBlack

So I thought I'd make some suggestions for what I think would be an awesome Messianic Starter Base Package.

David, This is a great selection. Thanks for putting it together. I wish I could think of a few more to include, but I cannot think of any at the moment.

[y]

Erwin Stull, Sr.

Wow! David, this is a great suggestion. [Y]

And you have done the work. All that Logos/Faithlife has to do, is to package it together. Seems like all that would take them to do, is to use the above resources and give it a name. [:)]

Graham Criddle

All that Logos/Faithlife has to do, is to package it together. Seems like all that would take them to do, is to use the above resources and give it a name.

I agree it looks like a great package.

But, presumably, customers would want discount when buying such a package which would probably mean Faithlife having to negotiate with a range of publishers.

Matthew C Jones

But, presumably, customers would want discount when buying such a package which would probably mean Faithlife having to negotiate with a range of publishers.

Yes, and dynamic pricing, of course.

I'd buy it.

MJ. Smith

Okay folks ... a dose of reality. A Starter package sells for $294.95 base price and is usually discounted 10-15% below that. This represents a value of around $2360 if purchased inidivudally (10-15%). This package has a base cost of $1173.44 or thereabouts - about $1187 short of normal. In short a very bad deal. You need to work on getting many more Messianic products in production and try promoting a bundle rather than base package. Good luck.

Brought to you by your friendly, realistic local logician who just got this really cool book on meta-argumentation which must belong in some base package.[;)]

David Paul

Despite earlier voices of approval, I find this suggestion in its specifics to be a real snoozer.

There are many problems with this idea, and probably the most vexing to cope with is the inaccuracy factor. The term "Messianic" is applied to two divergent groups, with a few cosmetic similarities and vast differences of belief and practice. Messianic Judaism, which is probably the concept that most "non-Messianic" Christians have in mind as their knee-jerk default when hearing the term "Messianic" is a different creature entirely from Messianic Christianity. Then, there is a third group, which stumbles around in one or the other or both of these groups and haven't got a foggy clue that there is a difference or what makes them constitutionally incompatible. I, for one, would hope to never see a "Messianic" package, since it would be marketed to one or both of these groups when I don't believe either one has a legitimate right to refer to themselves as Messianic.

In either case, there isn't remotely enough material in Logos to make a legitimate Messianic Base Package anything other than a far-fetched pipe dream.

David Roberts

Despite earlier voices of approval, I find this suggestion in its specifics to be a real snoozer.

Not everyone will be interested in the history of the Jerusalem Church and their migration to Pella, and then to Beroea (Aleppo) in Syria, but that's ok. Logos has no problem meeting the needs of different communities.

There are many problems with this idea, and probably the most vexing to cope with is the inaccuracy factor. The term "Messianic" is applied to two divergent groups, with a few cosmetic similarities and vast differences of belief and practice. Messianic Judaism, which is probably the concept that most "non-Messianic" Christians have in mind as their knee-jerk default when hearing the term "Messianic" is a different creature entirely from Messianic Christianity. Then, there is a third group, which stumbles around in one or the other or both of these groups and haven't got a foggy clue that there is a difference or what makes them constitutionally incompatible. I, for one, would hope to never see a "Messianic" package, since it would be marketed to one or both of these groups when I don't believe either one has a legitimate right to refer to themselves as Messianic.

Someone recently said this here in the forum:

Please remember the Logos forums are for the discussion of Logos resources, and products. It is NOT for discussing the relevancy, quality, orthodoxy, theological relevancy of anyone or anything. Please leave those discussions in http://christiandiscourse.com

Thanks!

In either case, there isn't remotely enough material in Logos to make a legitimate Messianic Base Package anything other than a far-fetched pipe dream.

That may be what you wish would be the case, but Logos has far more than enough for a Starter Package, but you have to ask yourself. Would you prefer that those who you say 'haven't got a foggy clue' to remain uneducated or for them to learn from quality scholarly works? Sometimes people can realise they've been wrong through good persistent study, something that having a Logos library would help with, moving them away from sacred namism, back to justification by faith and a solid belief in the trinity and the deity of Christ, but that decision is Logos' to make.

I just want to come back to why I brought this up in the first place. The youth I'm responsible for desperately need an affordable starter package that meets their needs and I know such a package would sell incredibly well. There would be many Messianic congregations where every single family would buy Logos, just because of how necessary learning the Hebrew language is in the congregations.

MJ. Smith

The youth I'm responsible for desperately need an affordable starter package that meets their needs and I know such a package would sell incredibly well. There would be many Messianic congregations where every single family would buy Logos, just because of how necessary learning the Hebrew language is in the congregations.

If this is true you are taking the wrong approach = a very long approach that will take years to reach your goal - consider the Restorationists. With a minimum of 10 people or so (I don't know the general limit) you can get an on-site demonstration and a customized package to get your congregation started. If you can pull several congregations from the region together you can pull together a sweet, inexpensive place for everyone in the congregation to start. As they add resources, you build the market for the more traditional base packages. If, like the SDA, you can get an official denominational buy-in you might be able to do even better at getting resources added. Contact Logos for info re: your regional representative.

David Roberts

If this is true you are taking the wrong approach = a very long approach that will take years to reach your goal - consider the Restorationists. With a minimum of 10 people or so (I don't know the general limit) you can get an on-site demonstration and a customized package to get your congregation started. If you can pull several congregations from the region together you can pull together a sweet, inexpensive place for everyone in the congregation to start. As they add resources, you build the market for the more traditional base packages. If, like the SDA, you can get an official denominational buy-in you might be able to do even better at getting resources added. Contact Logos for info re: your regional representative.

Thank you so much for your incredible helpful reply! I didn't know that what you spoke of was even an option! If you don't mind, is there a place we could chat online about this? I'd like to ask you a little more before I talk to Logos. I have a faithlife account. If you'd rather not, that's completely fine. I just want to make sure I've understood you properly.

David Roberts

The youth I'm responsible for desperately need an affordable starter package that meets their needs and I know such a package would sell incredibly well. There would be many Messianic congregations where every single family would buy Logos, just because of how necessary learning the Hebrew language is in the congregations.

If this is true you are taking the wrong approach = a very long approach that will take years to reach your goal - consider the Restorationists. With a minimum of 10 people or so (I don't know the general limit) you can get an on-site demonstration and a customized package to get your congregation started. If you can pull several congregations from the region together you can pull together a sweet, inexpensive place for everyone in the congregation to start. As they add resources, you build the market for the more traditional base packages. If, like the SDA, you can get an official denominational buy-in you might be able to do even better at getting resources added. Contact Logos for info re: your regional representative.

Well the Pastor just agreed for me to present Logos to the Church and as I went to contact my local rep in Australia,
the restructuring meant that there was no one there anymore.

Does this mean that customized packages for Churches is totally gone now with Logos' new business model?
I really hope not.