Catechism of the Catholic Church
I'm trying to work out if I'm able to get this or not - looking at it as an individual resource, I see this message:
"Due to copy right restrictions, the Catechism is only available to customers living in the United States, its territories, and Canada."
It says that it appears in the "Logos 6 Catholic Studies Bundle, S", but I don't see it on the list - I'm guessing this is because it's automatically excluded based on my region?
When I look at the Catechism of the Catholic Church Collection (9 vols), though, it shows as available.
Basically, I think that it's meant to be unavailable to me, but I'm not 100% sure. I want it enough that I might buy the collection if it's OK to do so and if I don't lose it in future, but I suspect that it's not meant to be available to me.
Can anyone give me a final word on this, as it stands currently?
Comments
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James McAdams said:
I suspect that it's not meant to be available to me.
Correct.
See here...
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/65502/457856.aspx#457856
Logos 10 | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 11 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone 13 Pro Max
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Also try:
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/60796/431975.aspx#431975The Catholic Church has divided the world into publishing areas. This make sense in the dead tree world. That is use local printers and storage sites. No need to ship books around the world just do it locally.
In the Electronic world of publishing it gets in the way as each publishing area has to allow usage in their area.
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James: Fair enough - thanks for your help.
David: agreed. Ah, well.
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James McAdams said:
It says that it appears in the "Logos 6 Catholic Studies Bundle, S", but I don't see it on the list - I'm guessing this is because it's automatically excluded based on my region?
There are two versions of that bundle - the standard one and an 'international' one that excludes the catechism.
You'll only be able to purchase the standard one (or the catechism as stand alone) if you have a US billing address.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
You'll only be able to purchase the standard one (or the catechism as stand alone) if you have a US billing address.
This is NOT true.
A Canadian billing address also works.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Is it possible to buy the Logos Catechism of the Catholic Church in Singapore? Unfortunately, I tried but it does not work.
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Tim Wing Yam said:
Is it possible to buy the Logos Catechism of the Catholic Church in Singapore? Unfortunately, I tried but it does not work.
Faithlife has now licensed a version of the CCC that can be sold everywhere, but at present it is only available in Verbum base packages.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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I have one of the packages, bought it a number of years ago. How then do I get the CCC?
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Tim Wing Yam said:
I have one of the packages, bought it a number of years ago. How then do I get the CCC?
By buying a new package that has the Vatican edition of the CCC.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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But I have already got most of the books in your new package. I hope one day it will become available as a single item.
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Tim, dynamic pricing means you will only pay for the resources you don't own so don't let the fact you own a lot of the resources put you off buying one of the new packages.
Tim Wing Yam said:But I have already got most of the books in your new package. I hope one day it will become available as a single item.
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Apologies if this has already been answered somewhere and I just missed it, but (1) is there any difference in the actual content of the two versions of the CCC and (2) will links from other resources that point to the CCC work with both versions or only with the one that has been in Logos the longest?
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I posted a question in the Catholic Products forum and asked Louis if he could answer directly the questions raised in this thread.
That said, I believe that the US edition contains a Glossary and Analytical Index that are copyrighted by the USCCB and are not in the international edition. All the content of the catechism is the same for both and I would think that the linking works the same.
The international edition has this support info:
LLS:CATCATHCHRCHITL
2016-08-18T23:01:31Z
CATCATHCHRCHITL.logos4The US edition has this support info:
LLS:CATCATHCHRCH
2015-02-03T16:12:30Z
CATCATHCHRCH.logos4I'm not sure how they show up in the catalog. I have a US address so I think I only see the US edition here. There are also editions in Latin and Spanish.
EDIT: Keep in mind that there are many different links both internal and external to the CCC. Denzinger is going to be critical to many of the external links. Also, Church Fathers, Roman Catechism (Trent), Canon Law and the Missal. If you do not have some of those resources, you may be better off getting the Catechism Collection depending on what you are missing.
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Steve, thank you for the info. I live in the US and already have international version of the CCC than comes with Verbum base packages. Can you comment on how exhaustive/extensive the glossary and index in the US version are? More specifically, do they provide more/better information than the Catholic Topical Index Faithlife made? The Catechism Collection you linked to shows a price of only $5.56 for me because I have everything else in it. Trying to determine if I would actually gain anything from buying the US version of the CCC. Thanks.
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Matthew,
I'm not sure why you would have only the international version of the CCC living in the US, unless maybe you lived outside the US and moved since your purchase of a Verbum base package or there is some base package differences. Clearly I'm lost on that point. Louis will need to look into that based on your account.
The glossary contained in the US edition of the CCC is different than the CTI ... two different resources and purposes. See below on the subject of abortion. You see how the glossary makes a definition with internal links to the CCC while the CTI provides a very robust list of internal and external references. One is a glossary, the other an index. Both are helpful.
The analytical index is another resource that provides more detailed references internal to the US edition across multiple subjects. Very helpful when you are trying to look up CCC references across the entire resource.
It's probably a good idea to wait for Louis to chime in on all this.
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CCC Glossary:
ABORTION: Deliberate termination of pregnancy by killing the unborn child. Such direct abortion, willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life (2271–2272).
Catholic Church, Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2nd Ed. (Washington, DC: United States Catholic Conference, 2000), 864.
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CTI:
ABORTION
Sacred Scripture
OT Ge 16:11, 25:21–22, Ex 21:22, Job 10:8, Ps 22:9–10, 139:13–15, Is 44:2, Ho 12:3
NT Lk 1:41, Ro 9:10–11, Jas 2:26Church Teaching
Catechism CCC 2271–2272, 2274; Glossary “Abortion”; Index “Abortion”
Denzinger DS 2135*, 3258–3358
Roman Catechism RC 2.8.13
Papal Encyclicals Evangelium Vitae 58, 62, 68, Caritas in Veritate 28
Papal Documents FC 6, 30, EAm 46, 63, EAs 35, EEu 95, PG 71, AfM 70
Canons of the Ecumenical Councils Quinisext, Canon 91, Lat. IV, Canon 22
Vatican II GS 27, 51Canon Law
Code of Canon Law CIC 1041, 4°, CIC 1398Ecclesiastical Writers
Apostolic Fathers Did 2.2, Barn 19.5, Diog 5.6
Apostolic Constitutions Const. Ap. 7.3
NT Apocrypha Akhmimic Apocalypse of Peter 25
Athenagoras Ath., Legat. 35
Minucius Felix Minuc., Oct. 30
St. Hippolytus Hippol., Ref. 9.7
Tertullian Apol. 9, De an. 25
Lactantius Lact., Inst. 6.20
St. Basil the Great Ep. 188
St. Jerome Ep. 22.13
St. John Chrysostom Hom. Rom. 24
St. Thomas Aquinas SCG 4.44, STh., III q.33 a.2See also: Human Embryo
Andrew Jones et al., eds., Catholic Topical Index (Bellingham, WA: Verbum, 2013).
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I hope to buy the Catechism Collection, but again it is linked to the US version of the CCC, would Logos be able to put up a international package of the Catechism Collection for sale?
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Re Prior post by Steve
Looking at ABORTION: the CTI ‘wins’
But let’s look at ABRAHAM
Catholic Topical Index
LLS:CATHINDEX2014-10-21T16:43:31ZCATHINDEX.logos4Abraham
Sacred Scripture
OT Ge 14:17–16:6, 17:1–18:33, 12:10–13:18, 12:1–4, 23:4, 19:24–25, 27–29, 20:1–18, 21:8–14, 2 Ch 20:7, Ge 22:1–19
NT Ga 3:8–9, Heb 11:8–9, 17, Lk 1:45–55, 16:14–31, Ro 4:1, 11, 16–21, Heb 7:4, 11:13, Jas 2:23
Church Teaching
Catechism CCC 2569–2572, 59, 72, 705–706, 762, 144–146, 165, 63, 422, 527, 709, 841, 992, 1080, 1222, 1541, 1716, 1725, 1819, 2592, 2619, 2676; Glossary “Abraham”; Index “Abraham”
Roman Catechism RC 1.4.7
Papal Encyclicals Redemptoris Mater 18
Vatican II LG 9, 16, NA 3
Catechism of the Catholic Church (U.S. Edition with Glossary and Index)
LLS:CATCATHCHRCH2015-02-03T16:12:30ZCATCATHCHRCH.logos4Abraham
Abraham’s prayer, 2569, 2570, 2592
calling of, 59, 72, 762
divine blessing and, 59, 1080
God’s covenant with, 72, 992, 2571
Jesus, stem of, 527
as model of hope, 165, 1819
as model of obedience in believing God, 144–46, 165, 2572, 2676
Muslims and the faith of, 841
a people sprung from its father Abraham, 63, 709, 762, 1541
promises made to, 422, 705, 706, 1222, 1716, 1725, 2571, 26190 -
Steve and David, thank you both for the information! No, I did not move to the US, but rather have lived here my whole life. I just shot an email to my sales rep asking about the situation and whether the US version can be unlocked for free based on my purchase of Verbum 7 Bronze. I also noted in my email that in the past Faithlife had decided that if someone already owned either the Protestant or Catholic version of Schaff's Church Fathers set the version they did not own could be unlocked for free. In that particular case, the Protestant version included many footnotes that the Catholic version lacked, but owners of the Catholic version were not charged for that. I will post here what I find out in case others are in my same situation and are wondering about this too.
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A follow-up note ... in case it's not obvious, the bottom part of David's reply shows an example of the Analytical Index, which I did not provide in the previous post. Very useful to see that, I think. Now you are able to compare/contrast the content of the three items - Glossary and Analytical Index from the US edition of the CCC and the CTI.
The specific example for abortion in the Analytical Index for my example is (references to internal CCC paragraph numbers):
Abortionmoral precepts and, 2271, 2274
and respect for life, 2770
those who help obtain an, 2272Catholic Church, Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2nd Ed. (Washington, DC: United States Catholic Conference, 2000).
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The specific example for Abraham in the Glossary for David's example is (references to internal CCC paragraph numbers):
ABRAHAM: The man of faith and patriarch of Israel with whom God made a covenant which promised him land in which to live and many descendants, a great people for whom the Lord would be their God. Through Abraham God formed the people to whom he would later give the law by revelation to Moses. With the advent of Christ, the people of Israel would serve as the root to which the Gentiles would be grafted by their coming to believe (59, 72, 145, 705, 762, 2570).
Catholic Church, Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2nd Ed. (Washington, DC: United States Catholic Conference, 2000), 864.
Hope everything out well for you [:)]
Blessings.
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Well, so far Louis has not chimed in, but hopefully he will. I heard back for the sales rep I bought Verbum Bronze from. His response in part was:
"I went to my manager to find out about this for you. The Catholic Church controls what we can put into a Verbum library. They only allowed us to include the international version of the Catechism and not the US one."
He indicated he could not give me the US version for free even though I already own the international version. I was sorry to hear that, as there was nothing on the product page clearly stating I would not be receiving the US version with my purchase.
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Matthew said:
The Catholic Church controls what we can put into a Verbum library.
Any Logos/Verbum users in Vatican? They could inform the pope about this? I assume if the current pope knew about this situation he would tell them to fix this quickly?
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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Matthew said:
He indicated he could not give me the US version for free even though I already own the international version. I was sorry to hear that, as there was nothing on the product page clearly stating I would not be receiving the US version with my purchase.
I think there has been some confusion here in what you have been told in other threads. As far as I can work out:
- Verbum 6 included the US Catechism for North American customers, and nothing for everyone else (the "international edition").
- Verbum 7 does not include the US Catechism for any customers, but includes a generic catechism (no glossary and index) for everyone.
So if you have Verbum 7 Bronze, you should have the generic catechism, not the US one.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Veli Voipio said:
They could inform the pope about this? I assume if the current pope knew about this situation he would tell them to fix this quickly?
Martin? Martin Luther? Is that you? [H]
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Mark is right, Matthew, there is some confusion. The apparent response seems like it may have been garbled up in conversation at FL or at least poorly worded in their reply to you. I would only be speculating why FL chose to put only the international version in the Verbum base packages as Mark points out. Perhaps to simplify pricing and versions.
The CCC, both US and International versions, are available free on-line at the Vatican website and also the USCCB website. The US edition on-line has the Glossary and Analytical Index as well.
Keep in mind that the content of the CCC is identical in both. It's only the Glossary and Analytical Index that is added on by the UCSSB. That's where the copyright issues come into play. That is their unique content.
While we wait for Louis to reply, you could consider a couple of other things:
- potentially purchase the US edition for the Glossary and Analytical Index (I linked to that previously)
- Use the Glossary and Analytical Index free from the USCCB website for those times you need that information
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As others have stated, the only difference between the two versions of the CCC is that the U.S. edition includes the Analytical Index and Glossary (and can't be sold overseas).
We decided to only include the generic edition without the U.S.-specific sections in the base packages for the sake of simplicity. Maintaining two versions of the base packages required a bunch of cumbersome overhead.
We've kept the U.S. edition available for customers who are interested in the glossary and index. We'll look at making the generic edition available outside the base packages (e.g., in the Catechism collection and/or individually). There's no rights-related reason we haven't done so, we just haven't gotten to it (and we want to minimize the confusion there, too, if we can).
Unlike the two versions of the Early Church Fathers, which is in the public domain, we pay royalties on both editions of the CCC (to two different rightsholders), so, unfortunately, we can't just give the other edition away to people that own one of them, even though they are nearly identical.
Matthew said:(2) will links from other resources that point to the CCC work with both versions or only with the one that has been in Logos the longest?
Links to the CCC work with both editions.
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Louis, thank you (and others) for the clarification. What was said about royalties makes sense, and is a key difference between this resource and the public domain Church Fathers set I referenced earlier in this thread. However, I still feel somewhat let down that I thought I was buying one version with the base package, wound up with a less complete version, and will have to buy what is largely a duplicate resource to get the missing index and glossary that I thought I had bought in the first place. Perhaps a disclaimer on the base package page would make this more clear to future buyers so they don't make the same (wrong) assumption I did.
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