Logos on Shared Computers
I run a computer lab at a small Bible college. All of the students will be purchasing the same Logos package this upcoming semester. The way the lab is set up is so any student can log in on any computer and access their shared network drives, etc. I can't install Logos and its resources 50x times - once under every student account - on every computer - due to the amount of space that would consume. Is there a way to install the software and library once, and each student has access to it, under their own Windows account, after they have signed into their Logos account?
Thanks!
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I don't think this is possible. I think even if you could share a resources folder the encryption would stop you accessing it from different accounts. Not certain though, just a guess.
I think the only way to make this work is going to be to find a way of installing it onto usb drives for the students to carry with them. Maybe someone has succeeded in getting Logos to work as a portable app?
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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I would recommend contacting customer support about this question... maybe they have a special account type or something for institutions?
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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A Logos license is for “one user” only. The kind of setup you describe is not permissible, nor does Faithlife have institutional licenses. Each student will need to install Logos on his/her own personal computer.
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Could they use one of the web apps to overcome this limitation for lab computers? I do not use the web apps, but it seems like they could each have there own account on their own computers, but then use the web to access their resources in a lab. Any thoughts?
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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JT (alabama24) said:
A Logos license is for “one user” only. The kind of setup you describe is not permissible, nor does Faithlife have institutional licenses. Each student will need to install Logos on his/her own personal computer.
Actually JT it is permissible. Each user has a license they just want to share a computer. You can do this with a couple of accounts on one computer. They just aren't going to have enough storage for 50 different accounts.
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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John Goodman said:
Actually JT it is permissible. Each user has a license they just want to share a computer.
Actually, it is not! I have no idea if FL really cares if two (or more) people share a computer but have separate user accounts (so that only the ONE person has access to those resources), but at face value it is not allowed:
5. Rights and Access Privileges for LBS Licenses.
LBS Licenses may ONLY be used on devices owned by the licensee in whose name the LBS License is registered. Each LBS License is granted for use by one human user only, even where the LBS License is registered in the name of an institution such as a church. We reserve the right to monitor use of the Services subject to LBS Licenses to detect, prevent and disable excessive simultaneous logins on different devices indicating use of the Services by more than one human user. We do not offer site-licenses, shared licenses, co-op licenses, or library licenses.However, that wasn't my point. The OP seemed to be asking if the resources could be stored on a network server so that each user could access their account. That is also not permitted.
4. Acceptable Use Policy.
Users and Communities accessing the Services shall not:... c. Place all or part of any Service, expressly including Content, onto a server so that it is accessible via a public network...
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Floyd Johnson said:
Could they use one of the web apps to overcome this limitation for lab computers?
I think that is the only method that would work here. If a student needs access to his/her account, they can use the web app.
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Austin Ruhl said:
Is there a way to install the software and library once, and each student has access to it, under their own Windows account, after they have signed into their Logos account?
The method of installation (per-user) means that the installation folder and any data folders have to be in a per-user location. So Library resources cannot be shared as they are (individual) user data (together with any user created documents). If you attempt to share the library, it will be disastrous as individual users make choices about new resources, and as Logos tries to update resources.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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JT (alabama24) said:Floyd Johnson said:
Could they use one of the web apps to overcome this limitation for lab computers?
I think that is the only method that would work here. If a student needs access to his/her account, they can use the web app.
And how is the web app any different to the desktop app in regards to below statement which you have already pointed out? With the web app the LBS License is still being used on a device not owned by the licensee, the fact it is web app rather than desktop app makes no difference. Hence this method does not work either if FL wanted to uphold the 'letter of the law'.
5. Rights and Access Privileges for LBS Licenses.
LBS Licenses may ONLY be used on devices owned by the licensee in whose name the LBS License is registered. Each LBS License is granted for use by one human user only, even where the LBS License is registered in the name of an institution such as a church. We reserve the right to monitor use of the Services subject to LBS Licenses to detect, prevent and disable excessive simultaneous logins on different devices indicating use of the Services by more than one human user. We do not offer site-licenses, shared licenses, co-op licenses, or library licenses.0 -
Austin Ruhl said:
I run a computer lab at a small Bible college. All of the students will be purchasing the same Logos package this upcoming semester. The way the lab is set up is so any student can log in on any computer and access their shared network drives, etc. I can't install Logos and its resources 50x times - once under every student account - on every computer - due to the amount of space that would consume. Is there a way to install the software and library once, and each student has access to it, under their own Windows account, after they have signed into their Logos account?
Thanks!
Austin, I think Floyd Johnson's suggestion is your best bet. Each student could simply log in to his or her app.logos.com account in the case where he or she is doing research in the library. As you have already stated, it would take up too much space to attempt to utilize each licensee's separate installation on each computer, and having one installation utilized by each user account is not going to work either. Many students will bring their own computers which will have Logos installed anyway, so I wouldn't assume every student needs the lab for Logos anyway, but the app.logos.com site seems to be a very reasonable work around.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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DIsciple II said:
With the web app the LBS License is still being used on a device not owned by the licensee,
The individual user is still logging in to his/her own account with the web app. It does not matter who owns the machine. The user is simply accessing his own resources—They are just on Logos' servers, not on the computer.
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Austin Ruhl said:
Is there a way to install the software and library once, and each student has access to it, under their own Windows account, after they have signed into their Logos account?
Technically it is possible. I can not guarantee that the following solution will work but nothing in my mind warn me that it won't.
The solution to the problem could quite easily be solved by creating a symbolic link for each user that directs the resources folder of each user to a "MainUser".
Consider the following on a Windows system:
You have a Main User account that downloaded all resources. The folder for the resources would be in a user specific folder. This folder would be the only one in the following directory:
%userprofile%\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\some_alpha_numeric.some_alpha_numeric
Each time a new user login from Logos installed on the Windows System a new folder is created for that user in this directory:
%userprofile%\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\
Let's say the main user is mainuser.abc and the new user is newuser.def
%userprofile%\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\mainuser.abc
%userprofile%\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\newuser.def
The solution would be to delete the new users folder and replace it with a symbolic link redirecting it to the mainuser.abc folder.You will need to login as a new user into Logos first and then close Logos before it downloads everything. The new user folder will then be available in the Data directory. Make a note of this folder and then use mklink to create the symbolic link.
Run a command prompt as Administrator and test the following (replace mainuser.abc and newuser.def with the folders you discovered above):
mklink /d %userprofile%\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\newuser.def %userprofile%\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\mainuser.abcThis work when I am working from the same windows account but different Logos Users. It just make sense to solve the problem of different windows user accounts by redirecting this user specific folder for Logos Users to a shared folder somewhere on the server.
Each users Documents will be stored seperately in their userspecific directory, only resources would be shared.I don't think this method is against the license because each user has their own login and license to access the resources, doesn't matter where those resources are stored?
It would not be advisable in this setup to have users with different Logos Versions (7 & 8 for instance), and always let Logos update from any account before everyone try to login. For your own benifit, confirm with FaithLife if this will work, I did not test this in a working environment, this is just an experimental test.
The technical syntax for mklink is available at: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/mklink0 -
O.... I almost forgot ....Welcome to the forum Austin [:D]
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DIsciple II said:
And how is the web app any different to the desktop app in regards to below statement which you have already pointed out?
Well, the application isn't being downloaded. FL probably needs to update their ToS, but I don't see them granting permission to do this.
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The Logos EULA has always had a scammy feel to it, imo. Never in history has it been a condition of purchase that only one user is allowed to use a multi-volume encyclopedia. Imagine World Book or Encyclopedia Brittanica trying to make that swing when they were first going into business. You would have NEVER HEARD OF THEM, period. Frankly, it's stupid...and, yes, we're all stupid for buying into it. Sure, there is some sense of value we all feel we get from Logos. But that comes at a frightening cost, especially to so-called "power users", to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. Yes, Logos does have its advantages, but the cost of those advantages is extremely steep. And frankly, its why FL's market penetration will always be faced with an ever present plateau. Most people I know who look into Logos just roll their eyes, and I fully understand why.
Obviously there are advantages to the Logos product (library in your hand; searching & hyperlinking; in L3, pop-up notes...which should have been termed "presentations"...that reside IN the user's Bible), but those pros come with aggressive cons (cost, lack of sharing). When Logos was first starting, I'm sure the EULA was crafted in such a way as to encourage publisher participation. Now, for the most part, it is a massive anchor. FL (Logos, in particular) reminds me of a pit bull on a chain. It may be master of its domain, but it isn't going anywhere.
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Austin Ruhl said:
Is there a way to install the software and library once, and each student has access to it, under their own Windows account, after they have signed into their Logos account?
PJ said:The solution would be to delete the new users folder and replace it with a symbolic link redirecting it to the mainuser.abc folder.
After thinking through this problem a little bit more I realise that the %userprofile%\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\THEUSERSFOLDER\ResourceManager\Resources folder should be the folder to redirect because the other folders contain database files specific to the user. This folder seem to contain the resources downloaded. If the UserFolder is used as in the previous suggestion Logos will reindex each time an user start Logos and would almost certainly destroy data.
I actually physically executed this just now on my personal computer to test this for you. The one account (main) is about 38G and the minor user around 6G. Currently the minor users's Logos is downloading 117MB of updates. I assume that this is upgrading to the latest version as I ran this user a long time ago.
If you succeed and maybe confirm this with FaithLife I would like to take note on the outcome.
Remember to BackUp Logos if you experiment like this on your physical installation and be prepared to face the worst outcome.
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Austin Ruhl said:
I run a computer lab at a small Bible college.
Since Colleges should (in my mind) be preparing students for life after school, Students should begin building their own reference libraries and the notes and highlighting being cloud-based will allow the student to access these documents after leaving the school. In your instruction you state that each student will be purchasing a Logos package. I assume some students will want to purchase higher packages and benefit from the Academic Discount. For all these reasons I think the Web App is your best solution for a lab setting.
You may want to talk with Dallas Theological Seminary or Logos Academic to discuss what they did with including a curated Logos library for each enrolled student. There may be some pricing advantages to the school and the students.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Jack did you read the terms that JT pointed out? According to them it does matter who owns the device. They clearly state the device needs to be owned by the license.
5. Rights and Access Privileges for LBS Licenses.
LBS Licenses may ONLY be used on devices owned by the licensee in whose name the LBS License is registered.Whether it is there intent for it to matter is a different issue what that clause states. And I am not going to speak on FL’s behalf and say it’s ok to ignore this clause because they really don‘t mean it. If you feel comfortable speaking on behalf of FL legal team that wrote this, that is your business but as I read it I would be seeking clarity directly from FL and not forum MVP’s giving their opinion on what they think is FL’s intent or should be their intent.
Jack Caviness said:DIsciple II said:With the web app the LBS License is still being used on a device not owned by the licensee,
The individual user is still logging in to his/her own account with the web app. It does not matter who owns the machine. The user is simply accessing his own resources—They are just on Logos' servers, not on the computer.
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I am assuming that one of the reason for the app is so that I can drop into the local public library and do a bit research using my account when I don't have access to my own computer. If the app is only for use on a Chromebook or some other computer that I own, then LOGOS should require each valid computer (not just the user) to be be registered to the account to which it is paired. LOGOS does not do this, so I would assume the app is designed for more general use.
If I were responsible for a lab, as is the OP, I would be more concerned about what features are different between the app and the installed version.
It would also make sense for LOGOS to provide a minimized version that could be used for instructional purposes. Providing access to a minimal set of LEXHAM and public domain resources that would allow an instructor to demonstrate and allow students to practice using the various tools in a laboratory setting. This minimized version could not purchase additional resources and would not be available to the general public. It should be upgradable to current specs - matching what students would have available on their own machines in their dorms or at home.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Floyd Johnson said:
I am assuming that one of the reason for the app is so that I can drop into the local public library and do a bit research using my account when I don't have access to my own computer.
For clarification, you mean "web app" (rather than "desktop app" or "mobile app").
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JT (alabama24) said:
For clarification, you mean "web app" (rather than "desktop app" or "mobile app").
Correct
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Install the Software on each PC to a USB using the Custom Install feature. Each Users Logos will be maintained on the USB and is suppose to run on any machine where logos is installed.
The downside is slower performance but then you have portability and ownership in place. The user can always later then install Logos elsewhere on their own PC and copying from the USB to make the files local for the PC.
Be aware for different versions as this will crash the solution in stealth mode.
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Floyd Johnson said:
I am assuming that
And that is the problem with the advice being given to the OP. Everyone answering him is assuming they know the intent of FL and more concerning is they are assuming they have the expertise to answer a legal question. Hence since you all are assuming to be an expert in the legalities of the EUL but none of you have provide evidence of FL’s intent on this specific matter or as to the legal advice you are giving, you are all putting yourselves in the position of offering negligent advice on a contract between FL and the OP. The only sensible advice which MVP’s should be leading the way in demonstrating is directing the OP to speak with FL about what is ok in their situation so they can then have official written advice on what FL will or will not allow in this case.
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PJ said:Austin Ruhl said:
Is there a way to install the software and library once, and each student has access to it, under their own Windows account, after they have signed into their Logos account?
PJ said:The solution would be to delete the new users folder and replace it with a symbolic link redirecting it to the mainuser.abc folder.
After thinking through this problem a little bit more I realise that the %userprofile%\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\THEUSERSFOLDER\ResourceManager\Resources folder should be the folder to redirect because the other folders contain database files specific to the user. This folder seem to contain the resources downloaded. If the UserFolder is used as in the previous suggestion Logos will reindex each time an user start Logos and would almost certainly destroy data.
I actually physically executed this just now on my personal computer to test this for you. The one account (main) is about 38G and the minor user around 6G. Currently the minor users's Logos is downloading 117MB of updates. I assume that this is upgrading to the latest version as I ran this user a long time ago.
If you succeed and maybe confirm this with FaithLife I would like to take note on the outcome.
Remember to BackUp Logos if you experiment like this on your physical installation and be prepared to face the worst outcome.
Your original suggestion was a very, very, very bad idea. It is asking for trouble.
It is theoretically possible to use symbolic links to link two identical Logos installations on the same PC. I've done it – for a time. (But by being far more careful about which folders I symlinked.) But you have to be incredibly careful to make it continue to work. For example, if you use fast-user switching, the whole thing will break and could corrupt your databases – and you'll get no support from Logos if you break it by this method.
But attempting to use symbolic links to link two different Logos installations, even if you're only linking the resource folder is still asking for trouble. What if your 'minor user' installation decides it doesn't need the 32Gb files it can see in the resources folder, and deletes them? Are you confident that won't happen?
More importantly, different versions of Logos support different versions of resources. What if your 'main user' updates to Logos 9 (or even 8.9), but your 'minor user' doesn't? You've now got resources that will very likely crash the 'minor users' application. If the 'main user' updates a resource, how do you know whether the 'minor user' will notice that the resource has been updated and trigger the necessary reindex? I haven't tested that scenario, but I'd be surprised if that was the case.
And even if you did all this, it doesn't help with indexing. 30%-50% or so of your installation space will still be duplicated.
So, please, don't do this. As soon as you stop to think it through you'll see it really isn't worth it.
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How would performance be using virtual machines? Create one for each user, stored on a fast network drive(???), then load it from any client? I'm not familiar enough with VM drive image performance issues across a network to know if that's feasible.
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Randy W. Sims said:
How would performance be using virtual machines? Create one for each user, stored on a fast network drive(???), then load it from any client? I'm not familiar enough with VM drive image performance issues across a network to know if that's feasible.
That sounds like a way to satisfy the legal requirement!
But the OP has a problem with drive space, and each VM requires a license for an operating system.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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DIsciple II said:
The only sensible advice which MVP’s should be leading the way in demonstrating is directing the OP to speak with FL about what is ok in their situation so they can then have official written advice on what FL will or will not allow in this case.
I agree. Hopefully the OP has realised that by now.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Mark Barnes said:
Your original suggestion was a very, very, very bad idea. It is asking for trouble.
Thanks Mark, I accept this and agree.
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