Pre-Pub Pricing (Baker Books)

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This post has 263 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 7:56 AM

Here's my take. I am willing to pay MSRP for an e-book if it has a demonstrated benefit to being in Logos. Mostly these include dictionaries, commentaries, and original language tools ect. However, when it comes to the "trade paperback" category I am much less willing to make these purchases. Many of these books do not contain enough information to consult many times. Mostly they would be read and shelve material; paper works better in this regard. So, I would only buy this class of ebook if 1) the discount was good OR 2) I found myself flipping through the paper book often and decided that there was a definite benefit to getting it in the Logos format, then I could sell the print copy or keep it for loaning purposes.

I think Baker and Zondervan are potentially cutting off a large portion of revenue. It will be interesting to see what happens to this pricing model.

Posts 3154
Whyndell Gizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:42 AM

Garrett Mercury:

Terry: I fully agree.  Those kinds of comments are WAY out of line.  Obviously it was meant to inflame.  Why would anyone think this is the place for that?

Whinedell: just curious.  What are "hinch men?"

First of all it was not meant to inflame but to indicate that at the rate of current spending by the government, we'll be lucky to keep our freedom and our money. And no its not out of place just my "personal opinion", and I really don't care about false piety or political correctness.

"hinch men" are those guys who go around doing your dirty work, really crooks who are out for the intrest of the Mob boss and not the people.

Live with it Big Smile

Posts 321
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:48 AM

Terry Poperszky:

ReneAtchley:
Freedom at work I suppose...Crying

 

My choosing not to sign up for them is also "Freedom at work". Big Smile

I agree.  Although I'm not sure how effective such actions are against spiralling prices in a market with limited distribution outlets.  Perhaps it works both ways..if these books aren't bought on a regular basis then the lack of distribution sources may drive down prepub prices over time. 

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:59 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:

"hinch men" are those guys who go around doing your dirty work, really crooks who are out for the intrest of the Mob boss and not the people.

I think you mean "henchmen" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henchman

Posts 3154
Whyndell Gizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:01 AM

Stand corrected

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:03 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:

Garrett Mercury:

Terry: I fully agree.  Those kinds of comments are WAY out of line.  Obviously it was meant to inflame.  Why would anyone think this is the place for that?

Whinedell: just curious.  What are "hinch men?"

First of all it was not meant to inflame but to indicate that at the rate of current spending by the government, we'll be lucky to keep our freedom and our money. And no its not out of place just my "personal opinion", and I really don't care about false piety or political correctness.

"hinch men" are those guys who go around doing your dirty work, really crooks who are out for the intrest of the Mob boss and not the people.

Live with it Big Smile

Whyndell, you may have missed these: http://wiki.logos.com/Forum_Guidelines

 

Posts 2689
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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:12 AM

Well, i shall not be investing much in the Baker stuff on Pre-Pub, for all the reasons given on this thread. I checked the price at Amazon to see how it compares & it is way out. Something is not right about all this & no rational has been given by Logos for this. Has there been a change in Logos philosophy when it comes to Pre-Pub? I would love to hear from Bob or Dan concerning this matter.

I now have a good reason not to invest heavily as i would have liked in digital books. It seems to me Baker & Zondervan are taking their customers for a ride. Hmm..what a gravy train! Stupid Ted, no one is forcing you to buy, just don't buy the Baker product should be your motto of protest.

I already have enough Logos product and Pre-Pub orders to last me a life time. So it does not make sense for me to throw away my money. Baker and Zondervan are entitled to have their products in Logos & i am also entitled to keep my money in my pocket! I am happy for those who regardless of the hefty price tag will still make the purchase and also happy that these great title are available in Logos.

That said, no offence to you guys at Logos as i suspect (i may be wrong) that Baker are responsible for setting the price. I shall still be looking at the Pre-Pub page for other good deals but i shall let the Baker stuff pass me. I may consider having Hoehner's Ephesians Exegetical Commentary if it appears in Logos but even at that i will not be amused. Just my opinion for what it is worth.

 

Ted

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 1536
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:29 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:

First of all it was not meant to inflame but to indicate that at the rate of current spending by the government, we'll be lucky to keep our freedom and our money. And no its not out of place just my "personal opinion", and I really don't care about false piety or political correctness.

"hinch men" are those guys who go around doing your dirty work, really crooks who are out for the intrest of the Mob boss and not the people.

Live with it Big Smile

Putting a smiley face on hate speech, doesn't really work. Live with it? I would rather report it.

 

 

 

 

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:32 AM

Not too sure about this.

Is Baker Greedy?  Are the production and "rights" costs soo high, Logos has to charge this amount to break even?

All i can say is, i will buy IF I need the book, and even then I will weigh many factors.  But I will not send a pre-pub message at the SRP.  I will buy when it is necessary.


Glad Baker is coming on board.  Not glad the price is what it is.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 2733
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:44 AM

EDITED:

off-topic, withdrawn.

Bohuslav

Posts 512
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:48 AM

What comes to my mind is a shift in thinking about electronic rights and the value of those rights. After the Apple announcement that it was letting publishers set their prices for books against Amazon's trying to force the publishers to accept Amazon's pricing model, we then hear McMillian publishing pulling their titles from Amazon's Kindel platform. Here is a quote from an article in the Wall Street Journal today.

"A fight between the publishing industry and online retailer Amazon.com Inc. heated up Thursday as a second publisher committed itself publicly to selling its electronic books through a new pricing model.

Late Thursday, Lagardere SCA's Hachette Book Group sent a letter to book agents stating that it would pursue with all retailers an e-book pricing formula like the one Apple Inc. has proposed using with its new iPad tablet device. David Young, the publisher's chief executive, wrote: "This new model helps protect the long-term viability of the book marketplace."

Hachette's effort follows a move by New York-based publisher Macmillan, whose books have been taken off of Amazon's Web site in a dispute over pricing. On Thursday, Macmillan said it is still trying to hash out terms with Amazon over the pricing of its e-books, and doesn't know when its books will be back for sale on the retailer's Web site.

Amazon halted sales of all Macmillan books last weekend after the publisher attempted to renegotiate its e-book terms in the wake of Apple unveiling the iPad. The iPad will compete as an e-book reader with Amazon's Kindle. But with the iPad, publishers will have more control over the pricing of their e-books; Amazon, to the dismay of publishers, hawks e-book best sellers for $9.99."

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:51 AM

Dan DeVilder:
But I will not send a pre-pub message at the SRP.

 I will not buy at the SRP, others are welcome to.

Dan DeVilder:
All i can say is, i will buy IF I need the book, and even then I will weigh many factors.

Sorry, you may have misunderstood, i was not advising others not to buy just myself. Please feel free to go ahead with any purchase, it is your money not mineSmile.

Dan DeVilder:
Glad Baker is coming on board.  Not glad the price is what it is.

To this i will say an Amen. I more or less said that in my previous postBig Smile. Every blessings

 

Ted.

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 1536
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:52 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:

Terry Poperszky:
I would rather report it.

Terry, I am certainly not for any hate-speech but... reading your words about reporting is really chilling and reminds me some really not nice days here in Europe. Report to whom? To Logos? They see it. To the government? Wow, I don't even think further... I am for using a respectful language but trying to be politically correct all the time makes us overreact sometimes. Sorry. It might be I am too sensitive for that kind of things because of our past. If it feels this way, I apologize in advance.

Sorry, different cultures, different sensitivities. My apologies. If you click on the more, button to the right of the post, it gives you the option of reporting forum abuse. I do consider referring to the democratically elected President of the United States of America as a "Dictator" and as the government officials as Mob Henchmen, hate speech. It is not designed, to facilitate communication or dialog, it is meant to inflame emotions and while not illegal in our country (nor should it be) definitely has no place on this forum.

 

 

Posts 2733
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:56 AM

Ted Hans:

Dan DeVilder:
Glad Baker is coming on board.  Not glad the price is what it is.

To this i will say an Amen. I more or less said that in my previous postBig Smile. Every blessings

 

Ted.

Since it is already a second publisher doing the same thing it would really be nice to hear from Logos on that matter. It must have a reason and I don't believe it is Logos "invention" (the pricing of the Zondervan and now Baker prepubs).

Bohuslav

Posts 1536
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:01 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
Since it is already a second publisher doing the same thing it would really be nice to hear from Logos on that matter. It must have a reason and I don't believe it is Logos "invention" (the pricing of the Zondervan and now Baker prepubs).

 

Look what is happening with Amazon (Kindle) e-books and the publishers forcing the price point up. I would be surprised to find that this is Logos at work.

 

 

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:07 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
Since it is already a second publisher doing the same thing it would really be nice to hear from Logos on that matter. It must have a reason and I don't believe it is Logos "invention" (the pricing of the Zondervan and now Baker prepubs).

I suspect the same here, as Dan informed us that Zondervan was responsible for setting the price of their product on the Logos blog.

 

Ted

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 975
Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:12 AM

When Logos pricing is higher than buying a print copy it makes the decision very easy. I don't think Logos is being fair to say that we should order "to send a message that we want to see Baker books." Of course we want to see Baker books but for most of these titles Logos "functionality" doesn't add anything so if I really want it (I I would have to really want it to pay full retail) I would need to consider whether to keep it (Logos format) or just buy it, read it, and then sell it, give it away, etc.

Maybe we've been spoiled by the price of Logos sets over the years but publishers have inflated their prices knowing that there will be large discounts offered by retailers. It therefore seems unfair to be charging Logos users full price.

Posts 321
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:18 AM

Part of the problem with one big gorilla, so to speak, in a market is that part of the motivation to moderate prices and maximize customer service has/is being reduced.  Examples like Microsoft, GM, and Bank of America (I think-you get the point) show how market dominance can be both a blessing and curse in an open market environment.  Constant customer support and acceptance of a given companies product vision, without regards to outside market forces, may seem beneficial to all involved at first but over time there is price to be paid.  I wonder if we will start to pay that price?

Posts 142
Michael Sullivan | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:24 AM

 A couple of observations:

1) In talking with an editor on another forum, he adressed the misconception that E-books are vastly cheaper to produce than hard copies.  The fact is that most of the cost does not go into the paper, ink and binding, but the actual researching, writing and editing.  On top of this, continual tagging and editing takes a lof of time (human resouces as well as computerized) which adds to the cost not present in actual printing.  (Althought, from what I hear, Logos has come a long way in that it has a system which can do most of the tagging and editing automatically - but I do not work for LOGOS, so if I am wrong, and am willing to be corrected)

2) Bob Pritchett, in his personal blog a while back, talk about how electronic resources will be getting more expensive because of the all the add things customers will be looking for in the future.  It does not surprise me then that we are starting to see this happening.

Here is the link, and scroll down to the entry for December 10th, 2009 entitled "The future is now". : http://www.bobpritchett.com/blog/2009/12/

3) New deals are being struck with publishers.  Part of the equation deals with distribution.  Logos, like Apple in iTunes, would like to be the sole distributor of books written for the Logos system.  This would mean a loss of income for smaller publishers that may have sold products through there bookstores.  (Although, I don't know how this would effect Baker).  Because of the loss of income, I could expect publishers asking for a great royality on the sale of their products through Logos.  (Again, this is my understanding of the situation, and please correct me if I am wrong).

All of these things means that resources will become more expensive in the Logos system - rivaling their paper counterparts.

 

Posts 512
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:31 AM

I believe we have been spoiled, that being said think about the prepub model Logos has created. We the consumers pay for all development cost to produce a title, after all costs are covered then Logos produces the title. You of course noted in the new L4 base packages many past prepubs were dumped in packages for as little as1.00 per title, that originally cost hundreds of dollars in prepub at one time. The only way Logos can offer that price is if the royalities are next to nothing that they have to pay the publishers and their costs are covered by their customers. I believe publishers only allow this kind of royalty pricing in base packages or collections.

It seems that the new Zondervan and Baker model is to push out single title's for the higher dollar amount, than to take the royalty hit by allowing lower pricing in a collection and thus make considerably less money.

I think we may need to be prepared to pay more for electronic books that are just being published, say within the last 4 years or so, and are currently on bookstore shelves.

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